Is it right to ask others to pray for us?

[MoreCoffee]

You're hijacking.

And since the RCC has a Bible that NONE agree with, NO OTHER accepts - and NEVER, EVER HAS - then any claim that IT is somehow the leader on this is just silly, absurd, laughable. Friend, to be a leader you have to have at least ONE follower - if only for a hour or so. But the RCC has NEVER had a follower on this matter - for even one second. You know that, I know that, all God's children know that. The RCC has NEVER EVER agreed with ANY but it itself exclusively on what is and is not Scripture, what is and is not canonical. Not EVER. And the RC Denomination has NEVER, EVER had even one other church that has agreed with it on what is or is not Scripture. Never. We all know that. So it's just silly and historically absurd to argue that IT decided this matter (for any but it itself exclusively) or is any "leader" on this.


Now, back to the subject of the thread.

It is my thread so I can entertain a brief excursion into a related topic if doing so helps to clarify and/or advance the discussion about prayer for others and asking others to pray for us moreover asking the saints in heaven to pray for us and praying for the departed faithful that they may be received into the blessed presence of the almighty in heaven. The canon and its antiquity does matter if for no other reason than that the full canon does in fact bear testimony to prayer for the benefit of the faithful departed as well as bearing testimony to the continuing life of the faithful after they depart this Earth.

As for your remarks about the canon, your own denomination accepts how many books as holy scripture? Is the list witnessed to in Christian antiquity?

 

[psalms 91]

Better question is is it wirtnessed to bu the spiritof God? Does the practice affirm anything God has said, does it break any prohibition of God, these are better questions

 

[MoreCoffee]

Better question is is it witnessed to by the spirit of God? Does the practice affirm anything God has said, does it break any prohibition of God, these are better questions

Mormons say that their books are witnessed to by the holy Spirit and Jehovah's witnesses teach that their doctrines are presented to their governing body by "holy spirit'. Add to that the testimony of every kind of Christian group and Church to their own most important beliefs (including the list of books they accept as holy scripture) are given by the illumination of the Holy Spirit and we're at an impasse are we not because the different groups and Churches mentioned have different lists.

 

[psalms 91]

Mormons say that their books are witnessed to by the holy Spirit and Jehovah's witnesses teach that their doctrines are presented to their governing body by "holy spirit'. Add to that the testimony of every kind of Christian group and Church to their own most important beliefs (including the list of books they accept as holy scripture) are given by the illumination of the Holy Spirit and we're at an impasse are we not because the different groups and Churches mentioned have different lists.

In the world yes, I doubt God is confused nor do I think that those who do really recofnize the spirit are in disagreement and I am sure that rosses denominational lines

 

[MoreCoffee]

In the world yes, I doubt God is confused nor do I think that those who do really recognize the spirit are in disagreement and I am sure that crosses denominational lines

I recognise the Spirit and I do not share your stated views.

 

[Alithis]

another distracting rabbit hole is where this has gone .

its now well established that the practice of communing with those departed from us is a violation of the will of God according to the scriptures .and as such ..is sin.

so now "one" seeks to impose a non scriptural book over the word of god . and in opposition to the word of God.
That alone proves its is not scripture for god does not contradict his own word .

As always the telling thing is - innocence needs no justification . if it is of the lord, then there is never a need to wordplay ,manipulate scripture , add in non scriptural text to force the word of God into conformity with a man made tradition . the very fact that this must be attempted is proof to me that the doctrine is not of God .

 

[psalms 91]

I recognise the Spirit and I do not share your stated views.

And I will never accept your view ove rthe word of God. How many more Catholic threads are you going to start as they do seem to divide rather than bring us together. I am not the only one who has noticed this Catholic theme to this board lately. If it is to be that then let us know. And dont confuse the issue with EO, Lutheran, etc which is just one step removed from Catholic and agrees with pretty much all of it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

And I will never accept your view over the word of God. How many more Catholic threads are you going to start as they do seem to divide rather than bring us together. I am not the only one who has noticed this Catholic theme to this board lately. If it is to be that then let us know. And don't confuse the issue with EO, Lutheran, etc which is just one step removed from Catholic and agrees with pretty much all of it.

I suspect that every thread that does not agree with your views will be accounted as divisive by you. Surely you do not expect everybody to adopt "Word of Faith" doctrine when not everybody believes it is true or that it is a word of faith.

 

[psalms 91]

No I dont but I also do not flood the board with it either, I try to participate in what is out there btu if it is to be Catholic as a board over all then just tell us

 

[MoreCoffee]

No I don't but I also do not flood the board with it either, I try to participate in what is out there but if it is to be Catholic as a board over all then just tell us

Well, consider it an opportunity to select what you will participate in. I provide some ideas and you can pick which you want to respond to. You can start your own too. I will be starting another thread shortly on the matter of envy.

 

[Pedrito]

Is it right to ask others to pray for us?

Maybe so. But it may depend on who.

Paul knew Stephen was dead. Paul knew Stephen was righteous and had been granted a vision of the risen Jesus standing at the right hand of God.

Yet Paul did not pray to him. Paul did not pray to any dead Christians.

(From memory, Paul prayed only to God.)

Why not?

Clearly, the Church had not dreamed that idea up yet. And the idea was unknown in those Scriptures that the Jews considered to be what we would call canonical. Was it not?

(The apparent temporary resurrection of Samuel for Saul's benefit, is not a valid example of talking to the dead. The unseen apparition was described as clothed. A Mantle is mentioned. Where did the mantle come from? And was it actually Samuel speaking, or the medium supposedly speaking the words of the invisible Samuel, and Saul believing it to be Samuel's words?

The common thoughts expressed in Posts #46 and #80 may not be accurate. Was it Samuel's spirit, his soul, or his body? Or all three, or two of the three? Can a spirit wear a mantle?)

Once again in the practice of praying to dead people, we see post-Biblical doctrine and practice raising it's head.

Now, the important question is, should “Bible-believing Christians” accept post-Biblical doctrines and practices as God-given, reject all occurrences of them, or cherry-pick certain post-Biblical doctrines and practices for deeming to be acceptable?


Praying to the dead? Was anything else introduced in the centuries following the apostolic church?

 

[FredVB]

It really is right to ask other believers to pray for us if they are willing, it is biblical for more believers to pray about something, according to what is in God's will. We can just pray rightly to God who we approach through Christ for that. Saints are in heaven, the departed believers in Christ. Those in heaven are in unending bliss. This not interrupted with hearing prayers which may be in distressing circumstances in this fallen world. They are out of that to never return, and won't hear any of the prayers, which are only rightly directed towards God. The world they will yet come to will be the restored world God means to have from the creation, without sin or any curse for sin in it.