Is it right to ask others to pray for us?

[Full O Beans]

What does the Bible say about praying to / speaking to / talking to the dead?

http://www.gotquestions.org/praying-to-the-dead.html


What does the Bible say about praying for the dead?

http://www.gotquestions.org/praying-for-the-dead.html

https://bible.org/question/what-does-bible-say-about-praying-dead

 

[Alithis]

It bothers God, which is why He tells us not to do it. I obey Him. What about you? Defending a behaviour that God despises isn't wise.

more then that .. it displays absolutely no love for God or what he says .. it holds his word in disdain to obstinately oppose his will .

 

[MoreCoffee]

God advises against speaking to the dead.

The saints in heaven are not dead.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Tell you what Full O Beans and Alithis ... why don't you go and create a thread where you can advocate against prayers of whatever kind you do not approve and leave this thread since it is not about the topics you seem most keen to canvass.

This thread's topic is described in the first post thus:

Many Christians ask the saints and Blessed Mary to pray for them to the Lord our God. Some object to this practise reasoning that the saints are dead and hence cannot hear our requests nor respond to them. Yet Christians from the beginning have believed in spirits and the resurrection as well as the blessed angels who dwell with God. The Lord said to the Sadducees* that God is the God of the living and not the dead. He reasoned that if God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob then Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob live since God is the God of the living and not of the dead. This silenced the Sadducees because the Lord quoted from the Torah (the only pat of the ancient scriptures of Israel that the Sadducees accepted as canonical) and proved from it that the doctrine of the Sadducees was wrong. So I invite those who object to asking the departed saints to pray for us to the Lord our God to consider these passages and what they imply about one Christian asking other Christians to pray on their behalf.

1 Thessalonians 5:12-28 (12) And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; (13) And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves. (14) Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. (15) See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

(16) Rejoice evermore. (17) Pray without ceasing. (18) In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (19) Quench not the Spirit. (20) Despise not prophesyings. (21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (22) Abstain from all appearance of evil. (23) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (24) Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

(25) Brethren, pray for us.

(26) Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.

(27) I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.

(28) The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

*Matthew 22:23-33 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, (24) Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. (25) Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: (26) Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. (27) And last of all the woman died also. (28) Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. (30) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. (31) But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, (32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. (33) And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
​

 

[Brighten04]

Look, we are here together in the love of God and His Kingdom and Jesus Christ our Lord. It seems to me that we should be able to examine our denominational teachings by God's word and make an intelligent decision about whether that teaching violates the Word of God.Sometimes we have to renew our thinking.

Romans 12:I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

We should be renewing our minds daily by the Word of God.

 

[Full O Beans]

The saints in heaven are not dead.

This is a carnal rationalization used often to justify oneself for doing what is both futile and forbidden.

I urge you to read, study, meditate on and finally, believe and obey God's word. Beyond knowledge, this will bring strength, confidence, peace and joy to your walk with the Lord, and great unity with Christian believers everywhere.

 

[Alithis]

Look, we are here together in the love of God and His Kingdom and Jesus Christ our Lord. It seems to me that we should be able to examine our denominational teachings by God's word and make an intelligent decision about whether that teaching violates the Word of God.Sometimes we have to renew our thinking.

Romans 12:I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

We should be renewing our minds daily by the Word of God.

exactly ..
tact change time .

the thread asked the theological question "is it right to ask others to pray for us ." by others we must assume that they are presently with us in the body having not departed from "THIS" present life - because to communicate with them is a violation of the will of God . so it immediately excludes communing with them .

and the answer is given to the question is it right to ask others to pray for us ..-..its not wrong .. but then to look at the theological aspect -where are we "TOLD or instructed to ASK others " ?

We observe the practice of asking others to pray for us .paul does it a few times ... but where is it actualy directly "taught " ..
we observe that we are to admit our faults one to another for the express purpose that we may pray one for another .though in that context james is speaking about healing ..so the failings he implies are those of illness .
and james also instructs getting those in the congregation , more experienced with healing (elders.. being simply those with more experience in seeing miracles occur (as opposed to some old guy whose been in church for ages and doesn't display an ounce of faith ) to lay hands on and pray for healing and they will be healed ( the evidence that are actually true elders in the lord is that the person wil indeed be healed ) ...

outside of those scenarios do we see where anywhere in scripture we are expressly TAUGHT /instructed , to "ask " others to pray for us or are we taught to pray ourselves .
i think , for the most part we are taught to pray ourselves .. Certainly in matters of salvation it is the crying out from the heart unto God through the lord JESUS which he hears .. no one else can profess faith in christ on your behalf .. so there is only futility asking someone to pray for your salvation .. we do not pray for that which the lord has already given us in christ Jesus .
he has already given us the "how" to be saved .. repent ,be baptised -love and faith proven by obedience .. and we already know when salvation has begun in us because God acknowledges it with the baptism of the Holy Ghost .

so a theology of specifically "asking others to pray for as something to be taught ..is based upon what ?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Look, we are here together in the love of God and His Kingdom and Jesus Christ our Lord. It seems to me that we should be able to examine our denominational teachings

You've put your finger on the heart of the problem. You're not examining your doctrines and your denomination's doctrines all you're doing is having a go at the Catholic Church which you ignorantly accuse of teaching this or that. If you were engaging in self examination and a critique of what you found wanting in your own denomination or your own personal views then the discussion would be far more enlightening but when the main point of nearly every critical post is some alleged fault in the Catholic Church it becomes evident that cheap point scoring and self righteous congratulations is the goal. That is not what this thread was created for. If that's what you're seeking (and I am using you & your in the impersonal/general sense) then uninvite yourself, unsubscribe and create your own "we hate Catholicism and Catholic teaching because ..." threads. This thread is supposed to be about prayer for others and associated topics.

by God's word and make an intelligent decision about whether that teaching violates the Word of God.Sometimes we have to renew our thinking.

Romans 12:I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

We should be renewing our minds daily by the Word of God.

 

[psalms 91]

Personally I did not think prayer for others was a thread about praying for the dead. Obviously my viewpoint is not Catholic but I didnt even think that this thread would evolve into that. Not sure but I think you might have made the first post about praying to the dead or for them and thus opened it up to that. We are not to blindly allow that to pass when we disagree with it so much are we?

 

[Brighten04]

Many Christians ask the saints and Blessed Mary to pray for them to the Lord out God. Some object to this practise reasoning that the saints are dead and hence cannot hear our requests nor respond to them. Yet Christians from the beginning have believed in spirits and the resurrection as well as the blessed angels who dwell with God. The Lord said to the Sadducees* that God is the God of the living and not the dead. He reasoned that if God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob then Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob live sine God is the God of the living and not of the dead. This silenced the Sadducees because the Lord quoted from the Torah (the only pat of the ancient scriptures of Israel that the Sadducees accepted as canonical) and proved from it that the doctrine of the Sadducees was wrong. So I invite those who object to asking the departed saints to pray for us to the Lord our God to consider these passages and what they imply about one Christian asking other Christians to pray on their behalf.

1 Thessalonians 5:12-28 (12) And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; (13) And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves. (14) Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. (15) See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

(16) Rejoice evermore. (17) Pray without ceasing. (18) In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (19) Quench not the Spirit. (20) Despise not prophesyings. (21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (22) Abstain from all appearance of evil. (23) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (24) Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

(25) Brethren, pray for us.

(26) Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.

(27) I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.

(28) The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

*Matthew 22:23-33 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, (24) Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. (25) Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: (26) Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. (27) And last of all the woman died also. (28) Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. (30) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. (31) But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, (32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. (33) And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
​

Here is the OP.

 

[Alithis]

Here is the OP.

well we've stayed well on topic then

Many Christians ask the saints and Blessed Mary to pray for them to the Lord out God.
Nope ,only the rcc encourages this behaviour

Some object to this practise reasoning that the saints are dead and hence cannot hear our requests nor respond to them.nope we object because communing with those past from this first life is a violation of Gods will

Yet Christians from the beginning have believed in spirits and the resurrection as well as the blessed angels who dwell with God. that in no way means any one held to the practice of communing with them

The Lord said to the Sadducees* that God is the God of the living and not the dead. He reasoned that if God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob then Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob live sine God is the God of the living and not of the dead. This silenced the Sadducees because the Lord quoted from the Torah (the only pat of the ancient scriptures of Israel that the Sadducees accepted as canonical) and proved from it that the doctrine of the Sadducees was wrong. So I invite those who object to asking the departed saints to pray for us to the Lord our God to consider these passages and what they imply about one Christian asking other Christians to pray on their behalf.-see ..you invited us ,we considered them and found in no way do they give allowance to contradict Gods will or word by communing with those who are dead they are dad from this world even though alive in the resurrection (god is not bound by time)-we are . you play silly word gymnastics , Did the lord jesus raise lazarus from the living .. ?? no he raised up his DEAD body and made it alive again ..he was DEAD to this world .

1 Thessalonians 5:12-28 (12) And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; (13) And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves. (14) Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. (15) See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. -absolutely nothing to do with asking the departed to pray for us

(16) Rejoice evermore. we do (17) Pray without ceasing.-somthing which can only be done by the power of the holy Spirit within us (18) In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. -ok ..now you care about Gods will ??(19) Quench not the Spirit. -the spirit of God will NEVER walk us in a way that opposes Gods own word (20) Despise not prophesyings.- Your not prophesying (21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. -yup we agree thats what we are doing holding fast to that which is god as is defines in the word of God and casting out false man added doctrines (22) Abstain from all appearance of evil.-you mean like the appearance of the sinful practice of ignoring that god has said the only way to pray to him is through JESUS because he said "no one comes to the father but through me" (23) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (24) Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. -and who is it that will Do it ? he that calleth you .. NOT mary .JESUS !

(25) Brethren, pray for us. and to whom was he writing when he said that ? -walking talking men and woman .

(26) Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss. -what.. now you want us to kiss the dead also ?

(27) I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren. -ahhh well they must be present to be read to mustn't they -difficult to read it to the departed ..you'd need a medium-but thats a sin.

(28) The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

*Matthew 22:23-33 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, (24) Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. (25) Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: (26) Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. (27) And last of all the woman died also. (28) Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. (30) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. (31) But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, (32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. (33) And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.-again none of this has anything to do with asking the deaprted to pray for us .


the summary is .. what your trying to push here ..is an rcc doctrine which has no bible basis or any clear unambiguous directive from the Holy Spirit it has not been accepted by non catholics in thousands of years (for obvious reason ) and is not going to be accepted now .

There is ONE mediator between man and god .. the Man christ Jesus .

 

[MoreCoffee]

You'll find that Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, Oriental Orthodox, and every other ancient Church both intercede for the faithful departed as well as ask the heavenly saints to intercede for them. IN fact ancient Israelites interceded for the faithful departed. The passage from second Maccabees shows that.

 

[Full O Beans]

You'll find that Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, Oriental Orthodox, and every other ancient Church both intercede for the faithful departed as well as ask the heavenly saints to intercede for them. IN fact ancient Israelites interceded for the faithful departed. The passage from second Maccabees shows that.

There's no security in numbers all doing something that God expressly forbids. Maccabees may talk about it, but those people doing it were defying God. Is it any wonder Maccabees is not in the canon?

 

[MoreCoffee]

There's no security in numbers all doing something that God expressly forbids. Maccabees may talk about it, but those people doing it were defying God. Is it any wonder Maccabees is not in the canon?

Maccabees is not in your list but it is indeed canonical.

 

[Full O Beans]

Maccabees is not in your list but it is indeed canonical.

Not in the canon of God-inspired scripture, and for good reason. It is not God-inspired.

 

[Alithis]

Not in the canon of God-inspired scripture, and for good reason. It is not God-inspired.

correct -that is already wel established ,the books of maccabees are proven to be erroneous and there not "inspired word of God " . thus we do not accept any doctrine built on thier content .

and also correct to say - having many people say a thing ,does not annul the word of God and make that thing suddenly right
. things dont become truth by popularity contest .. though the sexual immorality advocates may think so . it is never the case .

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not in the canon of God-inspired scripture, and for good reason. It is not God-inspired.

It is in the canon of holy scripture that was defined before any of the religions and meetings that you regard highly existed, more than 1,000 years before any of the first denominations of what people commonly call Protestantism existed and even more than 1,500 years before any of the denominations and meetings that people call Charismatic and Pentecostal came into existence.

 

[Full O Beans]

It is in the canon of holy scripture that was defined before any of the religions and meetings that you regard highly existed, more than 1,000 years before any of the first denominations of what people commonly call Protestantism existed and even more than 1,500 years before any of the denominations and meetings that people call Charismatic and Pentecostal came into existence.

I am happy and blessed that God was able to overthrow man's ideas of what scripture is by intervening and bringing correction.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I am happy and blessed that God was able to overthrow man's ideas of what scripture is by intervening and bringing correction.

It's amazing how your replies slip and twist to avoid the obvious facts of history. No group no matter how pious it claims to be can be the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ if he did not found it. The Lord founded his Church 2,000 years ago. The bible as you have it is edited and shortened to suit the ideas of man.

 

[Josiah]

It is in the canon of holy scripture that was defined before any of the religions and meetings that you regard highly existed, more than 1,000 years before any of the first denominations of what people commonly call Protestantism existed and even more than 1,500 years before any of the denominations and meetings that people call Charismatic and Pentecostal came into existence.

You're hijacking.

And since the RCC has a Bible that NONE agree with, NO OTHER accepts - and NEVER, EVER HAS - then any claim that IT is somehow the leader on this is just silly, absurd, laughable. Friend, to be a leader you have to have at least ONE follower - if only for a hour or so. But the RCC has NEVER had a follower on this matter - for even one second. You know that, I know that, all God's children know that. The RCC has NEVER EVER agreed with ANY but it itself exclusively on what is and is not Scripture, what is and is not canonical. Not EVER. And the RC Denomination has NEVER, EVER had even one other church that has agreed with it on what is or is not Scripture. Never. We all know that. So it's just silly and historically absurd to argue that IT decided this matter (for any but it itself exclusively) or is any "leader" on this.


Now, back to the subject of the thread.