Thy Kingdom Come

[Brighten04]

Who would we say that to?

Good question!

Matt. 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

I believe He said it to everyone He met. I have no idea how that must have looked.

 

[Full O Beans]

Good question!

Matt. 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

I believe He said it to everyone He met. I have no idea how that must have looked.

Oh, I getcha!

I believe our walk and our words should always reflect the Lord Jesus--and therefore His wondrous Kingdom and how it works. When we speak peace, love and exude His joy and righteousness in our lives, it paints a picture of the Kingdom. It is definitely at hand to those who are observing it.

 

[tango]

ihop?
Apostolic reformation?
dominionist ?

haven't heard much or had anything to do with any of it .
I noted a few posts ago maybe pages -some one posted something about people who teach that we have to make a kingdom to hand over to god before he comes ? never heard of that either .

-- thy kingdom come --
a kingdom is a realm that is influenced by a ruler .. and where ever that rulers influence reaches is "his "kingdom"
..well thats how i presently see t

It seems to be a growing influence and as far as I can tell it's rotten to the core.

The teaching that Jesus Christ can't return until we've cleaned up the earth so we can present it, pure, to Jesus is definitely out there. The Seven Mountains Mandate (which seems to run through a lot of the toxic theologies) essentially calls for Christians to take control of things. I remember at one church I attended (for a short time) that was into all this stuff one guy stood up with the mic and made a long rambling address that essentially said "yeah yeah, I know what the Bible says, but I believe we have a civil mandate and besides which, I met Bob Jones in an elevator once and he told me". If we had a civil mandate beyond going into the world and preaching the gospel I'd have thought Jesus might have mentioned it, at least in passing.

So how do we bring God's kingdom to the lost? I certainly don't see anything in Scripture about making laws to ban sinful behaviors, trying to take control of anything and forcing people to act a certain way. If we get out there and preach the gospel, love people the way Jesus did, look after widows and orphans and the like then we can advance one person at a time. Although as the sermon I heard on Sunday put it, so often we act as if becoming a Christian means we can't have any more fun and the facial expression most appropriate to Christianity is either a glum look or a frown. We present the faith as a list of statements that begin "Thou shalt not". And then we wonder why the world doesn't want what we're offering.

 

[Brighten04]

So how do we bring God's kingdom to the lost? I certainly don't see anything in Scripture about making laws to ban sinful behaviors, trying to take control of anything and forcing people to act a certain way. If we get out there and preach the gospel, love people the way Jesus did, look after widows and orphans and the like then we can advance one person at a time. Although as the sermon I heard on Sunday put it, so often we act as if becoming a Christian means we can't have any more fun and the facial expression most appropriate to Christianity is either a glum look or a frown. We present the faith as a list of statements that begin "Thou shalt not". And then we wonder why the world doesn't want what we're offering.

Well some make the Kingdom look unattainable. Then once it has been obtained one 'sin' could cause one to lose it. How does the Kingdom of Heaven look on Earth today? Kingdom citizens imho should be the happiest and healthiest people on Earth because our King is the greatest. But that has not been the way it has been presented. And like you said in so many words, we present the faith in unappetizing fashion. I don't believe Lord Jesus did that. We have to do better imho.

 

[tango]

Yes everyone should bring their thoughts into captivity to the Word of God. But that means replacing worldly thoughts with His thoughts. That means wholly submitting to the authority of the Holy Spirit. That means acting on the Word as Lord Jesus did. And that friends is a tall order. It is soooo easy to say 'I can do that.'. But truly walking it out is a very tall order.

It's a tall order indeed, especially when what God wants for us isn't what we might have chosen for ourselves. One way I often figure whether someone (whether it be me or someone else) is truly hearing God is that if what "God says" aligns perfectly with what the person would like to do in a situation the chances are it isn't God speaking. For me at least, if God speaks into a situation the chances are it's going to be uncomfortable for me. There will be blessings involved, there will be benefits involved, but it's most likely going to be something I wouldn't specifically choose to do.

 

[tango]

Yes spiritually with the Word like Jesus did at His temptation saying I't is written'.

Speaking of Jesus' temptation, that highlights how important it is to understand the full Scriptural context of what is written. When the devil tempted Jesus he presented arguments that began "it is written" and quoted Scripture accurately. The difference was that the devil quoted words selected to make his point, which was fundamentally different to the overall meaning of Scripture.

 

[Alithis]

It seems to be a growing influence and as far as I can tell it's rotten to the core.

The teaching that Jesus Christ can't return until we've cleaned up the earth so we can present it, pure, to Jesus is definitely out there. The Seven Mountains Mandate (which seems to run through a lot of the toxic theologies) essentially calls for Christians to take control of things. I remember at one church I attended (for a short time) that was into all this stuff one guy stood up with the mic and made a long rambling address that essentially said "yeah yeah, I know what the Bible says, but I believe we have a civil mandate and besides which, I met Bob Jones in an elevator once and he told me". If we had a civil mandate beyond going into the world and preaching the gospel I'd have thought Jesus might have mentioned it, at least in passing.

So how do we bring God's kingdom to the lost? I certainly don't see anything in Scripture about making laws to ban sinful behaviors, trying to take control of anything and forcing people to act a certain way. If we get out there and preach the gospel, love people the way Jesus did, look after widows and orphans and the like then we can advance one person at a time. Although as the sermon I heard on Sunday put it, so often we act as if becoming a Christian means we can't have any more fun and the facial expression most appropriate to Christianity is either a glum look or a frown. We present the faith as a list of statements that begin "Thou shalt not". And then we wonder why the world doesn't want what we're offering.

well iv not heard of it much and wont bother to look into it much .

we are to increase HIs kingdom but thats HIS kingdom which already is ..we don't make it we increase it .we are called clearly to the work of the gospel. and to become like the lord Jesus .
in our modern language that is to become apprentices they we may become like the master .and do what the master did in body .for we are now his body . so GO, heal the sick drive out demons preach the gospel of repentance ,baptism in his name and make more apprentices (deciples)

 

[Alithis]

Well some make the Kingdom look unattainable. Then once it has been obtained one 'sin' could cause one to lose it. How does the Kingdom of Heaven look on Earth today? Kingdom citizens imho should be the happiest and healthiest people on Earth because our King is the greatest. But that has not been the way it has been presented. And like you said in so many words, we present the faith in unappetizing fashion. I don't believe Lord Jesus did that. We have to do better imho.

im guessing its a referral to past conversations ..but one sin doesnt do so .. but one "unrepentant continued practice of sin": has already done so ..until repentance takes place .
in the past (recent) we have had textual misunderstandings on those points . mostly my fault i think. for not articulating it very well . -buts that off the train of the thread ..

the kingdom of god i believe is NOT at all like the kingdoms of this world and when folks try to impose the spiritual kingdom of god over the carnal world which is in fact the kingdom of carnality ..the spirit of this world .. it only increases rebellion .
an observance looking back over the century and you wil see that ..for instance - gays "laws" .. the harder some tried to "push" a spiritual law onto a carnal rebellious mind which is by its nature at enmity to God ..the more it pushed back in rebellion . so had not the carnal minded do gooder pushed so hard againt the whole gay issue -then these present laws we see ,"may not " have come about .

a carnal minded church does more damage then good . when we get our focus off the gospel and try to change the world from the flesh we are going to lose every time .
God has already said he is not going to change this present world ..he is going to judge it and destroy it with fire . so it makes no sense that people want to "change the world . we are to be saved from sin and saved out of the world .. not be a part of it and change it ..for to change the world to become acceptable o a christin level involves negotiate and compromise ,, so it can never happen .we'll end up gay ministers ...and teachers tickling our ears ... oooouh hmmmm lol .

 

[Brighten04]

Speaking of Jesus' temptation, that highlights how important it is to understand the full Scriptural context of what is written. When the devil tempted Jesus he presented arguments that began "it is written" and quoted Scripture accurately. The difference was that the devil quoted words selected to make his point, which was fundamentally different to the overall meaning of Scripture.

Yes because in the temptation twisted scripture. I see a lot of that happening too. Satan tried to manipulate Jesus like he did Adam. But Jesus let satan know in no uncertain terms that He could not be manipulated. We need to be just like that, knowing without a doubt that we are in Christ.

 

[tango]

Well some make the Kingdom look unattainable. Then once it has been obtained one 'sin' could cause one to lose it. How does the Kingdom of Heaven look on Earth today? Kingdom citizens imho should be the happiest and healthiest people on Earth because our King is the greatest. But that has not been the way it has been presented. And like you said in so many words, we present the faith in unappetizing fashion. I don't believe Lord Jesus did that. We have to do better imho.

Our King is the greatest although I'd be a little careful with "healthiest and happiest". Paul wrote how he had known plenty and he had known little (Php 4:12). He mentioned his physical afflictions (Gal 4:13) and how he would boast in his infirmites (2Co 12:9). We won't necessarily be happy in the sense that most people would understand the word "happy" but we should have the fruit of the Spirit which include peace and joy. Peace in uncertain times because we know that, whatever happens to our physical bodies, God is in control. Joy in the Lord because we know what awaits us in heaven. Patience because we know that the things that frustrate us in this world are of little consequence when viewed in an eternal context. Kindness, goodness, faithfulness etc, because that's the difference caused by Christ in us.

There isn't much that Bill Johnson says that I agree with but one of his quotes is very powerful. He noted that sinners were drawn to Jesus, while they tend to be repelled by Christians, and we'd do well to figure out why that is and fix it.

 

[tango]

Yes because in the temptation twisted scripture. I see a lot of that happening too. Satan tried to manipulate Jesus like he did Adam. But Jesus let satan know in no uncertain terms that He could not be manipulated. We need to be just like that, knowing without a doubt that we are in Christ.

Sure, and we also need to know Scripture and its context so we aren't drawn away by fine-sounding arguments that appeal to Scripture but that twist or totally butcher the context.

The notion that we can make declarations and they will happen can be supported by Scripture (Job 22:28) if you're not fussy about context. But reading the verse in context yields a totally different picture, not least because the words "You will declare a thing and it will be established for you" weren't spoken by God at all. It's true to say that "it's in the Bible" and even quote the reference to prove it. But standing on a promise that God never made is unlikely to yield good results.

 

[Brighten04]

im guessing its a referral to past conversations ..but one sin doesnt do so .. but one "unrepentant continued practice of sin": has already done so ..until repentance takes place .
in the past (recent) we have had textual misunderstandings on those points . mostly my fault i think. for not articulating it very well . -buts that off the train of the thread ..

the kingdom of god i believe is NOT at all like the kingdoms of this world and when folks try to impose the spiritual kingdom of god over the carnal world which is in fact the kingdom of carnality ..the spirit of this world .. it only increases rebellion .
an observance looking back over the century and you wil see that ..for instance - gays "laws" .. the harder some tried to "push" a spiritual law onto a carnal rebellious mind which is by its nature at enmity to God ..the more it pushed back in rebellion . so had not the carnal minded do gooder pushed so hard againt the whole gay issue -then these present laws we see ,"may not " have come about .

a carnal minded church does more damage then good . when we get our focus off the gospel and try to change the world from the flesh we are going to lose every time .
God has already said he is not going to change this present world ..he is going to judge it and destroy it with fire . so it makes no sense that people want to "change the world . we are to be saved from sin and saved out of the world .. not be a part of it and change it ..for to change the world to become acceptable o a christin level involves negotiate and compromise ,, so it can never happen .we'll end up gay ministers ...and teachers tickling our ears ... oooouh hmmmm lol .

Actually no, I was not thinking of any past conversations so be at peace brother. I like to think that the Kingdom of God can be discussed without strife. .I have heard people say that they would rather see a sermon than to hear one. And being honest here, I truly don't know how to project the Kingdom of Heaven in a way that attracts people to it. How do I lift up our King to cause people to flock to Him rather than run from Him. Healing the sick I do. Feeding the hungry I do. People want us to pray for them. But once they are healed, they take off. I know it was a problem in Jesus' day also, but, man, it is frustrating .

 

[tango]

well iv not heard of it much and wont bother to look into it much .

The only reason I looked into it is because some people I care about got involved in it, to the point they saw nothing wrong with promoting teachings that directly contradicted Scripture.

It's worth knowing something about it because it seems to be becoming more and more prevalent within the church, especially the more charismatic/pentecostal churches. If I had advance warning that a toxic theology was coming soon to a church near me I'd be inclined to learn a little about it, even if only so I could recognise it when it appeared and avoid it.

we are to increase HIs kingdom but thats HIS kingdom which already is ..we don't make it we increase it .we are called clearly to the work of the gospel. and to become like the lord Jesus .
in our modern language that is to become apprentices they we may become like the master .and do what the master did in body .for we are now his body . so GO, heal the sick drive out demons preach the gospel of repentance ,baptism in his name and make more apprentices (deciples)

Becoming more like Jesus is the key thing here, our commission is to go into the world and preach the gospel rather than trying to take control of anything.

 

[Brighten04]

The only reason I looked into it is because some people I care about got involved in it, to the point they saw nothing wrong with promoting teachings that directly contradicted Scripture.

It's worth knowing something about it because it seems to be becoming more and more prevalent within the church, especially the more charismatic/pentecostal churches. If I had advance warning that a toxic theology was coming soon to a church near me I'd be inclined to learn a little about it, even if only so I could recognise it when it appeared and avoid it.



Becoming more like Jesus is the key thing here, our commission is to go into the world and preach the gospel rather than trying to take control of anything.

Someone on the other forum once said if Jesus was here He would be a Republican, I laughed at this and said when Jesus comes He will be KING over a Kingdom, And He is a Jew.And His Word is the Law, and you will not be able to vote him out because of any of it.

 

[tango]

Someone on the other forum once said if Jesus was here He would be a Republican, I laughed at this and said when Jesus comes He will be KING over a Kingdom, And He is a Jew.And His Word is the Law, and you will not be able to vote him out because of any of it.

It is funny the way people of all political persuasions insist that Jesus would be a member of the same political party they are. I often think it's more interesting to look for reasons why Jesus would represent The Other Guy, and considering whether we should shift our viewpoint at all. If we're not careful we end up creating a god in our own image. If my natural instinct would be to vote Republican then looking for reasons why Jesus might be a Democrat will result in much more of a personal challenge (to my politics and my faith) than to look for reasons why Jesus would be Just Like Me (and of course those who are minded to vote Democrat would be better served thinking of reasons why Jesus might vote Republican). If we're willing to look at something like that honestly (as opposed to taking a simplistic "Jesus could never vote for X because s/he supports this Very Bad Thing" kind of approach) we'd be more likely to find a common ground, than if one side insists that Jesus would vote for party Y because of one of their platforms while the other side insists Jesus would never vote for Party Y because of another of their platforms.

 

[Brighten04]

It is funny the way people of all political persuasions insist that Jesus would be a member of the same political party they are. I often think it's more interesting to look for reasons why Jesus would represent The Other Guy, and considering whether we should shift our viewpoint at all. If we're not careful we end up creating a god in our own image. If my natural instinct would be to vote Republican then looking for reasons why Jesus might be a Democrat will result in much more of a personal challenge (to my politics and my faith) than to look for reasons why Jesus would be Just Like Me (and of course those who are minded to vote Democrat would be better served thinking of reasons why Jesus might vote Republican). If we're willing to look at something like that honestly (as opposed to taking a simplistic "Jesus could never vote for X because s/he supports this Very Bad Thing" kind of approach) we'd be more likely to find a common ground, than if one side insists that Jesus would vote for party Y because of one of their platforms while the other side insists Jesus would never vote for Party Y because of another of their platforms.

Amen to that. But it is like the concept of the Kingdom of Heaven which is in us has not been realized by many in the Christian faith.

 

[Alithis]

Actually no, I was not thinking of any past conversations so be at peace brother. I like to think that the Kingdom of God can be discussed without strife. .I have heard people say that they would rather see a sermon than to hear one. And being honest here, I truly don't know how to project the Kingdom of Heaven in a way that attracts people to it. How do I lift up our King to cause people to flock to Him rather than run from Him. Healing the sick I do. Feeding the hungry I do. People want us to pray for them. But once they are healed, they take off. I know it was a problem in Jesus' day also, but, man, it is frustrating .

yes its the 10 leper scenario ..1 out of 10 returned to worship .. there wil always be those (and sadly many) who love the kingdom of this world .of darkness of sin . and they love being well also . but that love displayed when they get healed is a wondrous and perhaps one of the most powerful tools to open hearts doors to "hear" the Gospel .. so we keep at it .

 

[Alithis]

It is funny the way people of all political persuasions insist that Jesus would be a member of the same political party they are. I often think it's more interesting to look for reasons why Jesus would represent The Other Guy, and considering whether we should shift our viewpoint at all. If we're not careful we end up creating a god in our own image. If my natural instinct would be to vote Republican then looking for reasons why Jesus might be a Democrat will result in much more of a personal challenge (to my politics and my faith) than to look for reasons why Jesus would be Just Like Me (and of course those who are minded to vote Democrat would be better served thinking of reasons why Jesus might vote Republican). If we're willing to look at something like that honestly (as opposed to taking a simplistic "Jesus could never vote for X because s/he supports this Very Bad Thing" kind of approach) we'd be more likely to find a common ground, than if one side insists that Jesus would vote for party Y because of one of their platforms while the other side insists Jesus would never vote for Party Y because of another of their platforms.

as i always like to remind people .. when the lord Jesus returns he overthrows ALL the kingdoms of "this world .. "ALL" ..including our personally favored one ... he reigns over them ALL with a rod of iron -there wil be no sneaky underhanded power plays and propaganda spins .. Just truth and justice !

 

[psalms 91]

as i always like to remind people .. when the lord Jesus returns he overthrows ALL the kingdoms of "this world .. "ALL" ..including our personally favored one ... he reigns over them ALL with a rod of iron -there wil be no sneaky underhanded power plays and propaganda spins .. Just truth and justice !

Come quickly Lord Jesus

 

[Brighten04]

So, when we poray Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven, what exactly are we praying? Sometimes things are more easily said than done.