I've NEVER defended praying TO Mary.
Yet you insist that the reason it is wrong, false, blaspheming to accept these two biblical teachings and thus hold that the title is valid, your reason is that there is this cause/effect mechanism at work: Those who affirm the biblical teachings, the Ecumenical Councils (rather than the heretic you referenced) are wrong BECAUSE they pray TO Mary. But, Bill, my friend, you have yet to show this is true - much less that it is a result of accepting these Scriptures rather than that heretic. In respect, we've made it so easy for you. We have two here whom you know, who are defending the biblical truths and holding that the title is thus valid...... we are Lamm and myself. NEITHER of us are Catholics (so leave Catholicism out of this). We both have made it clear we think the Bible, the Councils and the title are to be affirmed as valid..... we think the views of this man are wrong...... so therefore, prove your "CAUSE/EFFECT" argument, your basis for insisting the title is false, wrong and blaspheming... this "it causes people to pray TO Mary." Show that Lamm and I pray to Mary.... AND that we do so as the result (cause/effect) of holding to these two truths rather than to Arianism and Nestorianism. Just two, friend..... if this cause/effect argument of yours is valid, we've made it easy for you to substantiate it. Don't you agree, Bill?
As for the "Catholic" thing. Friend, neither Lamm or I are Catholic. There are some 630,000,000 Christians in the world today that affirms these truths and thus this title who are NOT Catholic. What about them? Why keep bringing up the RCC? When we speak of the Trinity, do you mock it because Catholics also believe it? A WHOLE BUNCH of non-RCC'ers do, too - as you know. Same here. This is no more distinctively Catholic than is the doctrine of the Trinity. Why bring up Catholicism? It's irrelevant. They didn't invent this, it's NOT exclusive to them. There are 630,000,000 NON Catholics you are condemning. NON-RCC'ers. NOT Catholics. This has nothing to do with Catholicism (well, anymore than the Trinity does).
Come on, my friend. You are typically a very thoughtful, wise poster. One I respect.
Ah, you're back to the "if the term/title isn't found verbatim in the Bible, we can't use it!" argument. Well... you have often used the title "Bible" in your posts. It's not in the Bible, either. So, you don't agree with your own premise, your own argument. So there's no reason for us to.
Now, if you are rebuking all churches that use terms like "Reverend" or "Bible" or "Sunday School" or "Youth Pastor" or "Praise Band" if you rebuke them as boldly as you are rebuking us, then you'll have a point. But otherwise, since you yourself use the title/term "BIBLE" then you yourself don't agree with your own point here. Since you don't, you should agree we shouldn't either.
Thank you.
pax
- Josiah
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