Bill -
Josiah said:
I don't regard Matthew 1:18, John 20:28 or Titus 2:13 to be "heresay."
I DO regard the heretic you reference for support and the heresy you said "sounds good" (both condemned by every Protestant denomination known to me) to be not just hearsay but heresy.
You have "sided" with Arianism and Nestorianism rather than with Matthew 1:18, John 20:28, Titus 2:13 etc., etc., etc. as well as the First, Third and Fifth Ecumenical Councils which Protestants generally accept.
You have persisted in this accusation that those of us who accept Scripture and Councils (in lieu of the heretic you referenced) and thus this title ergo "pray TO Mary." But we notice how you run from your own premise and accusation, you've not given even ONE NAME of even ONE PERSON among the 630 MILLION non-RCC Christians who embrace this title as "praying TO Mary" - thus not only NOT substantiating your premise, but perhaps proving the opposite to be true, that your cause/effect accusation is simply false.
1. Mary bore Jesus.
Matthew 1:18, "This is how the birth of Jesus came about: His mother Mary...." . So MARY is mother of the one called Jesus.
2. THIS Jesus may be called God.
John 20:28, "Thomas said to Jesus, 'My Lord and my GOD'." Note: JESUS (the one he is looking at, the one he is speaking to, the one born in Bethlehem) is..... what? What title was used?
Titus 2:13, "We wait for the blessed hope - the glorious appearing of our GOD - Jesus." Note: WHO is called our "GOD?" Can you quote the name Scripture gives? Is it "Jesus?"
So.... Scripture states that Mary bore Jesus and this Jesus may be rightly called God (as it itself does).
Sure - if you regard Scripture as wrong, false and blaspheming, then the title that affirms the same two points is. But if Scripture is not wrong, false and blaspheming, then the title which affirms the same things is not either.
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Ok thenm you are saying that all the lititure is wrong
What lititure?
What I'm saying is wrong is that the heretic you reference as "sounds good" - but then likely so does your denomination, so does Scripture (verbatim!), so does the First and Third and Fifth Ecumenical Councils. Remember, Bill.... Arianism and Nestorianism are HERESIES, my friend.
Matthew 1:18,
John 20:28 and
Titus 2:13 are NOT heresies condemned by virtually all Christians (including Protestants); what they state is true. Yes, the mother of Jesus is Mary! And yes, this Jesus may be called "GOD." Read the Scriptures you have been given repeatedly by so many here, please stop referring to condemned heretics.
Your documentation for why these two teachings are "
wrong, false and blasphemy" is because you've argued for a cause/effect between those who stand with Matthew 1:18, John 20:28, Titus 2:13 etc.,, etc., who stand with the First, Third and Fifth Ecumenical Councils, who stand against the heretic you referenced and the heresies of Arianism and Nestorianism, WE
therefore pray TO Mary. You claim these teachings are wrong BECAUSE of this cause/effect. But you have yet to produce even one name...... even ONE of the 640,000,000 or so non-RCC Christians who believe these things and thus use this title - and praying TO Mary. You can't produce ONE name to show this cause/effect - much less all of the 640,000,000! You can't name EVEN ONE of the 640 million or so non-RCC'ers who embrace the title that THEREFORE do pray to Mary. Not one! Hardly evidence as to the truth of your condemnation and accusation. Well, Bill.... Take just me. Or Lamm Consider the two of us - both of us believe what Scripture says on these two points and thus we both affirm the truth of the title.....
prove that both of us therefore pray TO Mary, AND we both DO SO
because we stand with Scripture and the Councils against the heretic and heresies you've references. Prove just we two - out of the 640,000,000.
Prove this cause/effect thing you've repeatedly (at least 4 times now) have accused us of. Or admit you are simply..... wrong.
Trash talk the Catholics elsewhere because I'm not Catholic and neither are Josiah and Lammchen so why do you all keep bringing up Catholic stuff when not all of us are Catholic? Just because someone says the truth about who Mary is doesn't mean she's worshipped or prayed to or adored or whatever so you can cease that gossip trying to say that everyone does that.
Ignoring Scripture..... referencing a notorious heretic as one who "sounds good"...... proposing a plethora of STRAWMEN that no one believes or proclaims and then trying to mock their own invented strawmen..... insisting we can't use title or terms not found in the BIBLE (which is of course a title not found in the Bible)..... all this has failed. So, all that is left is "if the RCC says it, it's therefore wrong." Well, then so is the Trinity. All they have left to throw at the approx. 640,000,000 NON-Catholics who agree with Scripture, agree with the First and Third and Fifth Ecumenical Councils... and who disagree with the universally condemned heresies of Arianism and Nestorianism.... we who do accept the title as valid.... is that we NON-Catholics are wrong
because this is CATHOLIC.
- Josiah
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