Infant Baptism

Josiah

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Jesus' instructions to the disciples was straightforward "baptizing and teaching".


True enough...

BUT where does the Bible specifically state that you may baptize or teach MARRIED people! Where, WHERE does it STATE that???!!!!!!! It does NOT! And can you DOCUMENT and PROVE from the written words of God in the Bible that there were MARRIED people baptized in the Bible, CAN YOU FIND EVEN ONE EXAMPLE OF A MARRIED PERSON BEING BAPTIZED IN THE BIBLE! No, you cannot. Don't lie, you CANNOT. So, it is wrong and false and unbiblical and blasphemy and stupid to baptize married people! NOTHING in the Bible says to do that! NOTHING in the Bible shows Jesus or the Apostles doing that! It therefore MUST be denied and forbidden! You MUST withhold it from any and not permit this to happen!

Come on! Pay attention to the BIBLE!



- Josiah (being terribly sarcastic - most unusual for him but nothin' else works, lol). :wink:



.
 

Lamb

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Jesus' instructions are to make disciples. We make disciples by teaching them the truth about salvation, and then when they receive the gospel gladly, we baptize them. Simple. That is how it has been since the beginning. There is no deviation toward baptizing unaware babies who are incapable of declaring themselves sinners, or of repenting.

Water is water. Don't mysticize it.

Baptizing and teaching. Shouldn't do one without the other. They go together.

Water is water but God's Word and water is Baptism. Stop throwing God out of it.
 

Full O Beans

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Baptizing and teaching. Shouldn't do one without the other. They go together.

Yeah, but we need to do it in the right order. No one who doesn't believe is a candidate for baptism. That includes babies. Forcing a very personal thing like baptism on human beings that are unconscious of sin and salvation is really a dastardly thing to do. Very presumptuous. Do you force salvation on people?

Water is water but God's Word and water is Baptism. Stop throwing God out of it.

No it isn't. That is your synonym...not God's.
 

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Ephesians 5:21-27 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. (22) Wives should be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, (23) since, as Christ is head of the Church and saves the whole body, so is a husband the head of his wife; (24) and as the Church is subject to Christ, so should wives be to their husbands, in everything. (25) Husbands should love their wives, just as Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself for her (26) to make her holy by washing her in cleansing water with a form of words, (27) so that when he took the Church to himself she would be glorious, with no speck or wrinkle or anything like that, but holy and faultless.

The underlined text is teaching about baptism.
 

Full O Beans

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Ephesians 5:21-27 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. (22) Wives should be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, (23) since, as Christ is head of the Church and saves the whole body, so is a husband the head of his wife; (24) and as the Church is subject to Christ, so should wives be to their husbands, in everything. (25) Husbands should love their wives, just as Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself for her (26) to make her holy by washing her in cleansing water with a form of words, (27) so that when he took the Church to himself she would be glorious, with no speck or wrinkle or anything like that, but holy and faultless.

The underlined text is teaching about baptism.

No, it isn't.
 

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Yeah, but we need to do it in the right order. No one who doesn't believe is a candidate for baptism. That includes babies. Forcing a very personal thing like baptism on human beings that are unconscious of sin and salvation is really a dastardly thing to do. Very presumptuous. Do you force salvation on people?



No it isn't. That is your synonym...not God's.

Yes, let's talk order. Jesus said baptizing and teaching. There's a good order for you.

God saves without our consent or help. He gives life out of nothing. He can save a baby. You are the one promoting a second Gospel that doesn't exist in scripture by saying babies have salvation apart from the scriptural "by grace through faith". God's Word is with the waters of baptism and He causes faith.

Ephesians 5:26 has always been recognized as baptismal language. It's only the modern day evangelicals who have said no to it and want to leave God out of baptism.
 

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These passages teach about baptism.

There was one of the Pharisees called Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews, who came to Jesus by night and said, 'Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher; for no one could perform the signs that you do unless God were with him.' Jesus answered: In all truth I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above. Nicodemus said, 'How can anyone who is already old be born? Is it possible to go back into the womb again and be born?' Jesus replied: In all truth I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born through water and the Spirit; what is born of human nature is human; what is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(John 3:1-6)

Then he said, "The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will, to see the Upright One and hear his own voice speaking, because you are to be his witness before all humanity, testifying to what you have seen and heard. And now why delay? Hurry and be baptised and wash away your sins, calling on his name."
(Acts 22:14-16)

Christ himself died once and for all for sins, the upright for the sake of the guilty, to lead us to God. In the body he was put to death, in the spirit he was raised to life, and, in the spirit, he went to preach to the spirits in prison. They refused to believe long ago, while God patiently waited to receive them, in Noah's time when the ark was being built. In it only a few, that is eight souls, were saved through water. It is the baptism corresponding to this water which saves you now -- not the washing off of physical dirt but the pledge of a good conscience given to God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has entered heaven and is at God's right hand, with angels, ruling forces and powers subject to him.
(1 Peter 3:18-22)

And he said to them, 'Go out to the whole world; proclaim the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.
(Mark 16:15-16)

It happened that while Apollos was in Corinth, Paul made his way overland as far as Ephesus, where he found a number of disciples. When he asked, 'Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?' they answered, 'No, we were never even told there was such a thing as a Holy Spirit.' He asked, 'Then how were you baptised?' They replied, 'With John's baptism.' Paul said, 'John's baptism was a baptism of repentance; but he insisted that the people should believe in the one who was to come after him -- namely Jesus.' When they heard this, they were baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus, and the moment Paul had laid hands on them the Holy Spirit came down on them, and they began to speak with tongues and to prophesy. There were about twelve of these men in all.
(Acts 19:1-7)

These passages tell Christians that baptism effects the birth from above, washes away sins, saves us, and enables us to receive the Holy Spirit.

Infants need salvation, a new life in Christ, and the gift of the Holy Spirit hence they are baptised.
 

Full O Beans

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Yes, let's talk order. Jesus said baptizing and teaching. There's a good order for you.

God saves without our consent or help. He gives life out of nothing. He can save a baby. You are the one promoting a second Gospel that doesn't exist in scripture by saying babies have salvation apart from the scriptural "by grace through faith". God's Word is with the waters of baptism and He causes faith.

Ephesians 5:26 has always been recognized as baptismal language. It's only the modern day evangelicals who have said no to it and want to leave God out of baptism.

God chooses to limit Himself to work in and through people. Ephesians 5:26 is not about baptism. It is about the cleansing effect of the Word of God---the Rhema of God, just as Jesus Himself shed His blood to cleanse us.

Christians don't leave God out of baptism. We just don't jump to the conclusion that every mention of water is a reference to baptism. We wait on the Holy Spirit to teach us.
 

Full O Beans

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These passages teach about baptism.

There was one of the Pharisees called Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews, who came to Jesus by night and said, 'Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher; for no one could perform the signs that you do unless God were with him.' Jesus answered: In all truth I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above. Nicodemus said, 'How can anyone who is already old be born? Is it possible to go back into the womb again and be born?' Jesus replied: In all truth I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born through water and the Spirit; what is born of human nature is human; what is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(John 3:1-6)

Jesus doesn't mention or refer to baptism there--at all.
 

Full O Beans

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These passages tell Christians that baptism effects the birth from above, washes away sins, saves us, and enables us to receive the Holy Spirit.

Water baptism is a symbol. It doesn't wash us of sin, nor save anyone.

Infants need salvation, a new life in Christ, and the gift of the Holy Spirit hence they are baptised.

Everyone needs salvation. We are commanded by God to teach our children of the things of God from the beginning so that when they are older they will receive Jesus as their own Saviour. Baptizing them hoping that it will somehow save them is shirking one's responsibility. It does nothing to a baby but get them unnecessarily wet.
 

MoreCoffee

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God chooses to limit Himself to work in and through people. Ephesians 5:26 is not about baptism. ...

Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives should be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, since, as Christ is head of the Church and saves the whole body, so is a husband the head of his wife; and as the Church is subject to Christ, so should wives be to their husbands, in everything. Husbands should love their wives, just as Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself for her to make her holy by washing her in cleansing water with a form of words, so that when he took the Church to himself she would be glorious, with no speck or wrinkle or anything like that, but holy and faultless.
(Ephesians 5:21-27)

This passage teaches about love and responsibility in human marriages and uses the analogy of heavenly marriage to explain how baptism cleanses the bride of Christ thus making her holy and acceptable before him.
 

Full O Beans

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Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives should be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, since, as Christ is head of the Church and saves the whole body, so is a husband the head of his wife; and as the Church is subject to Christ, so should wives be to their husbands, in everything. Husbands should love their wives, just as Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself for her to make her holy by washing her in cleansing water with a form of words, so that when he took the Church to himself she would be glorious, with no speck or wrinkle or anything like that, but holy and faultless.
(Ephesians 5:21-27)

This passage teaches about love and responsibility in human marriages and uses the analogy of heavenly marriage to explain how baptism cleanses the bride of Christ thus making her holy and acceptable before him.

No, it has nothing to do with water baptism, but of the cleansing effect of the Word of God, Jesus.
 

MoreCoffee

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No, it has nothing to do with water baptism, but of the cleansing effect of the Word of God, Jesus.

The word (spoken not written) is not water. "just as Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself for her to make her holy by washing her in cleansing water with a form of words"
 

Full O Beans

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The word (spoken not written) is not water. "just as Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself for her to make her holy by washing her in cleansing water with a form of words"

The Word is Jesus Christ, and His life given for us and His blood washes like water, but it is not baptism, for water used in baptism is a mere symbol, and cannot cleanse anyone of sin.
 

MoreCoffee

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The Word is Jesus Christ, and His life given for us and His blood washes like water, but it is not baptism, for water used in baptism is a mere symbol, and cannot cleanse anyone of sin.

The cleansing with water and a form of words is baptism.
 

Full O Beans

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The cleansing with water and a form of words is baptism.

No it is not talking about baptism. It is talking about the cleansing power of the word of faith and its regenerative power in a life.
 

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No it is not talking about baptism. It is talking about the cleansing power of the word of faith and its regenerative power in a life.

that is incorrect. the text does not support your claim
 

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that is incorrect. the text does not support your claim

You are welcome to your opinion, but the Lord has shown me what he wants me to know about it. The washing of the water of the word is what He does through His truth, to those who have faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus' blood is always the cleansing agent.
 

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You are welcome to your opinion, but the Lord has shown me what he wants me to know about it. The washing of the water of the word is what He does through His truth, to those who have faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus' blood is always the cleansing agent.

the text says "to make her holy by washing her in cleansing water with a form of words"

Ephesians 5:26

That he might sanctify - The great object of the Redeemer was to purify and save the church. The meaning here is, that a husband is to manifest similar love toward his wife, and a similar desire that she should be prepared to “walk before him in white”.
And cleanse it with the washing of water - In all this there is an allusion doubtless to the various methods of purifying and cleansing those who were about to be married, and who were to be united to monarchs as their brides. In some instances this previous preparation continued for twelve months. The means of purification were various, but consisted usually in the use of costly unguents; see Est 2:12. “Six months with oil of myrrh, and six months with sweet odours, and with other things for the purifying of women;” compare Psa 45:13-14; Eze 16:7-14. As such a virgin was purified and prepared for her husband by washing and by anointing, so the church is to be prepared for Christ. It is to be made pure and holy. Outwardly there is to be the application of water - the symbol of purity; and within there is to be holiness of heart; see 2Co 11:2, where Paul says of the Corinthians, “I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.”
By the word - There has been much diversity of opinion respecting the meaning of this. Probably the sense of the expression is, that all this was to be accomplished by the instrumentality of the truth - the Word of God. By that truth they were to be sanctified Joh 17:17; and in accordance with that the whole work from the commencement to the close was to be accomplished. It was not by external ceremonies, and not by any miraculous power on the heart, but by the faithful application of truth to the heart.
 
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The passage says
ἵνα in order that αὐτὴν it ἁγιάσῃ he might sanctify καθαρίσας having cleansed τῷ to the λουτρῷ washing τοῦ of the ὕδατος water ἐν in ῥήματι saying
 
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