Is any error cpable of separating one from God?

Full O Beans

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Where do the holy scriptures teach that?

The bible teaches us that we can be saved by faith, but that we need to enter into relationship with the Lord, making Him our Lord. Christians who do not do this are carnal. The bible teaches us about living holy lives and to reject carnality. When Jesus isn't one's Lord, something or someone else is, and his life won't be an overcoming one.
 

MoreCoffee

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The bible teaches us that we can be saved by faith, but that we need to enter into relationship with the Lord, making Him our Lord. Christians who do not do this are carnal. The bible teaches us about living holy lives and to reject carnality. When Jesus isn't one's Lord, something or someone else is, and his life won't be an overcoming one.

No scriptures then.
 

psalms 91

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MoreCoffee

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No knowledge? Truth is truth no matter how much you may try to dismiss it

For a claim to be true it must be true and the claims I referred to are opinions without backing from the holy scriptures so their truth is open to debate. I think that the teaching about carnal Christians is not biblical. It's a heresy. So I reject it. But if you have scripture that supports the claim then present it and let's see if it really does support the claim.
 

psalms 91

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For a claim to be true it must be true and the claims I referred to are opinions without backing from the holy scriptures so their truth is open to debate. I think that the teaching about carnal Christians is not biblical. It's a heresy. So I reject it. But if you have scripture that supports the claim then present it and let's see if it really does support the claim.
Lets start with what Paul says about carnal christians and add to that the scripture that says narrow is the way and few that find it. I dont think that the verse is talking spiritual christians who are in the spirit but I do think it is talking about carnal christians who are more in the world than in Christ. Look at the churchs today and tell me how many are spiritual and how many are carnal. The proof is sitting in the churchs right now.
 

MoreCoffee

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Lets start with what Paul says about carnal christians and add to that the scripture that says narrow is the way and few that find it. I don't think that the verse is talking spiritual christians who are in the spirit but I do think it is talking about carnal christians who are more in the world than in Christ. Look at the churches today and tell me how many are spiritual and how many are carnal. The proof is sitting in the churches right now.

You say you're going to look at what saint Paul says on the subject but then you don't cite any passage or quote any scripture. I think I know which passage you're thinking of but it is not about Carnal Christians. It's about Christians who are behaving as if they were still in the world on some matters and saint Paul is worried about them. Let's see what he says and then we can comment on it.
And so, brothers, I was not able to talk to you as spiritual people; I had to talk to you as people still living by your natural inclinations, still infants in Christ; I fed you with milk and not solid food, for you were not yet able to take it -- and even now, you are still not able to, for you are still living by your natural inclinations. As long as there are jealousy and rivalry among you, that surely means that you are still living by your natural inclinations and by merely human principles. While there is one that says, 'I belong to Paul' and another that says, 'I belong to Apollos' are you not being only too human? (1 Corinthians 3:1-4)​
The Cambridge commentary on the bible says:
1 Corinthians 3:1

And I, brethren - See 1Cor 2:1. This is designed to meet an implied objection. He had said 1Cor 2:14-16 that Christians were able to understand all things. Yet, they would recollect that he had not addressed them as such, but had confined himself to the more elementary parts of religion when he came among them. He had not entered upon the abstruse and difficult points of theology - the points of speculation in which the subtle Greeks so much abounded and so much delighted. He now states the reason why he had not done it. The reason was one that was most humbling to their pride; but it was the true reason, and faithfulness demanded that it should be stated. It was, that they were carnal, and not qualified to understand the deep mysteries of the gospel; and the proof of this was unhappily at hand. It was too evident in their contentions and strifes, that they were under the influence of carnal feelings and views.

Could not speak unto you as unto spiritual - “I could not regard you as spiritual - as qualified to enter into the full and higher truths of the gospel; I could not regard you as divested of the feelings which influence carnal people - the people of the world, and I addressed you accordingly. I could not discourse to you as to far-advanced and well-informed Christians. I taught you the rudiments only of the Christian religion.” He refers here, doubtless, to his instructions when he founded the church at Corinth.

But as unto carnal - The word “carnal” here σάρκινοῖς sarkinois is not the same which in 1Cor 2:14, is translated “natural” ψυχικός psuchikos. “That” refers to one who is unrenewed, and who is wholly under the influence of his sensual or animal nature, and is no where applied to Christians. “This” is applied here to Christians - but to those who have much of the remains of corruption, and who are imperfectly acquainted with the nature of religion; babes in Christ. It denotes those who still evinced the feelings and views which pertain to the flesh, in these unhappy contentions, and strifes, and divisions. “The works of the flesh are hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, envyings” Gal_5:20-21; and these they had evinced in their divisions; and Paul knew that their danger lay in this direction, and he therefore addressed them according to their character. Paul applies the word to himself Rom_7:14, “for I am carnal;” and here it denotes that they were as yet under the influence of the corrupt passions and desires which the flesh produces.

As unto babes in Christ - As unto those recently born into his kingdom, and unable to understand the profounder doctrines of the Christian religion. It is a common figure to apply the term infants and children to those who are feeble in understanding, or unable, from any cause, to comprehend the more profound instructions of science or religion.
The rest of the passage expands on the theme of their immaturity in the faith and the signs of it in their infighting and faction forming. That is a lesson for sects and divisions today too. People who disagree on a matter ought to be able to discuss it and search for the truth together rather than sticking to their point of view while ignoring the teaching of Christ. Thus saint Paul is not in this passage teaching that there is a class of Christians who are 'carnal christians' rather he is teaching that carnal behaviour is a sign of immaturity in the faith and the remedy for immaturity is to grow up. So after saint Paul admonishes them the divisions and carnality in the church he tells them what they ought to know and do. He says:
Do you not realise that you are a temple of God with the Spirit of God living in you? If anybody should destroy the temple of God, God will destroy that person, because God's temple is holy; and you are that temple. (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)​
The Cambridge Bible Commentary says:
1 Corinthians 3:16

Know ye not ... - The apostle here carries forward and completes the figure which he had commenced in regard to Christians. His illustrations had been drawn from architecture; and he here proceeds to say that Christians are that building (see 1Cor 3:9): that they were the sacred temple which God had reared; and that, therefore, they should be pure and holy. This is a practical application of what he had been before saying.

Ye are the temple of God - This is to be understood of the community of Christians, or of the church, as being the place where God dwells on the earth. The idea is derived from the mode of speaking among the Jews, where they are said often in the Old Testament to be the temple and the habitation of God. And the allusion is probably to the fact that God dwelt by a visible symbol - “the Shechinah” - in the temple, and that His abode was there. As He dwelt there among the Jews; as He had there a temple - a dwelling place, so he dwells among Christians. they are His temple, the place of His abode. His residence is with them; and He is in their midst. This figure the apostle Paul several times uses, 1Cor 6:19; 2Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22. A great many passages have been quoted by Eisner and Wetstein, in which a virtuous mind is represented as the temple of God, and in which the obligation to preserve that inviolate and unpolluted is enforced. The figure is a beautiful one, and very impressive. A temple was an edifice erected to the service of God. The temple at Jerusalem was not only most magnificent, but was regarded as most sacred:
(1) From the fact that it was devoted to his service; and,
(2) From the fact that it was the special residence of Yahweh.​
Among the pagan also, temples were regarded as sacred. They were supposed to be inhabited by the divinity to whom they were dedicated. They were regarded, as inviolable. Those who took refuge there were safe. It was a crime of the highest degree to violate a temple, or to tear a fugitive who had sought protection there from the altar. So the apostle says of the Christian community. They were regarded as his temple - God dwelt among them - and they should regard themselves as holy, and as consecrated to his service. And so it is regarded as a species of sacrilege to violate the temple, and to devote it to other uses, 1Cor 6:19; see 1Cor 3:17.

And that the Spirit of God - The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity. This is conclusively proved by 1Cor 6:19, where he is called “the Holy Ghost.”

Dwelleth in you - As God dwelt formerly in the tabernacle, and afterward in the temple, so His Spirit now dwells among Christians - This cannot mean:
(1) That the Holy Spirit is “personally united” to Christians, so as to form a personal union; or,
(2) That there is to Christians any communication of his nature or personal qualities; or,
(3) That there is any union of “essence,” or “nature” with them, for God is present in all places, and can, as God, be no more present at one place than at another.​
The only sense in which he can be especially present in any place is by His “influence,” or “agency.” And the idea is one which denotes agency, influence, favour, special regard; and in that sense only can he be present with his church. The expression must mean:
(1) That the church is the seat of His operations, the field or abode on which He acts on earth;
(2) That His influences are there, producing the appropriate effects of His agency, love, joy, peace, long-suffering, etc.; Gal 5:22-23;
(3) that He produces consolations there, that he sustains and guides His people;
(4) That they are regarded as dedicated or consecrated to Him;
(5) That they are especially dear to Him - that He loves them, and thus makes His abode with them. See the note at John 14:23.​
 
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Full O Beans

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For a claim to be true it must be true and the claims I referred to are opinions without backing from the holy scriptures so their truth is open to debate. I think that the teaching about carnal Christians is not biblical. It's a heresy. So I reject it. But if you have scripture that supports the claim then present it and let's see if it really does support the claim.
I reject opinion that is not scripturally supported.

Carnal Christians act as though they are of this world. They compromise their call to holiness to remain in sync with people and ideas around them.
 

Josiah

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The Lord Lord! sayers seem to think they obey the will of God. How do you know you're not one of them?


We evidently have a very unique person in our internet community..... one who is PERFECT (Matthew 5:48), HOLY to the same degree that God is. NEVER thinking or saying or doing ANYTHING less that 100% morally perfect - from conception to death. And rendering Scripture wrong when it says "There is NO ONE that does good, not even one" (Romans 3:12) and "For ALL have sinned and fall short" (Romans 3:23). Wow! I think we all should stand back in AWE - here is the only human in all human history to be always doing the will of God and never doing otherwise.... Jesus is the only other one who could rightly say that (but then He was God!)..... I think we all should stand in awe of this poster! And I think we should report this to all the world's newspapers - they'll all want to do articles about this perfect person!

I suspect that people and/or denominations declare self to be perfect for one reason: to exempt self from accountability, self insisting that self just can't be wrong, can't err cuz self declares that self always does the will of God. IMO, such are the very ones who should MOST be held accountable.



.
 

MoreCoffee

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I reject opinion that is not scripturally supported.

Carnal Christians act as though they are of this world. They compromise their call to holiness to remain in sync with people and ideas around them.

Show me the scripture that teaches that.
 

Full O Beans

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Where I have a problem is when self exempts self from accountability. Such as the RC Denomination does (CCC 87, etc). Like the LDS does. Like all the "cults" known to me do. IMO, unless one IS God, one CAN err. And thus separate us - from truth, from God and likely from each other.

I hold to a corporate view of Christianity, not an individualistic one (this is a chief reason why I left the RCC). Pardon the grammar, but it's not Jesus and ME, it's Jesus and WE (with "ME" here meaning any one denomination, teacher, church, sect or person). To quote Lincoln (I think) one can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time. But it's harder, IMO, to fool God's people ALL of the time. I'm truly sad that Rome's OBSESSION with power, centrality, individualism, unaccountability took over much of Christianity, many centuries before Luther was born. For at least 1500 years, we've had a MESS - a very Roman, power-obessed, individualistic, institutional mess. And while the Reformers decried this, they didn't help much. IMO, what we need is a return to a sense of community, humility, accountability (the antithesis of what Rome did to us beginning in the 4th Century). We have 1500 years of the antithesis to undo. Ain't going to be easy. Meanwhile, I think the institutional church is dying as people are taking this Roman, Individualistic view to it's logical conclusion: there are as many churches as there are people, with each unaccountable and infallible, each speaking for Jesus. The RCC times 2.2 billion (and declining). IMO, we'd better rediscover some sense of humility, community, love, service, US..... or....



- Josiah

Salvation is on offer to the individual. God desires each one of us to have an intimate relationship with Him as our Father. Each one of us are given gifts and abilities, and are a part of the Body of Christ. Together we make the whole. We need each other, but we mustn't lose sight of the fact that Jesus died for each one of us as individuals! He knows us, knows the number of the hairs on our heads, knows the number of our days, and He calls each of us by name. Each person is valuable to Him.

Luke 12:7
And the very hairs on your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are more valuable to God than a whole flock of sparrows.

Psalm 39:4
“Lord, remind me how brief my time on earth will be.

John 10:3
The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep recognize his voice and come to him. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
Remind me that my days are numbered—
how fleeting my life is.
 

visionary

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Correctly understanding scripture changes how one approaches life? Should we fear death, eternal fire, if we believe in the resurrection of the dead and the salvation Yeshua offers? If we err on our understanding of this great gift, and fear of death and hell fire steer us towards church keeping, are we looking forward to Judgment day? I think not.

If you believe the wrong things, it will not prepare you for the real thing. In this, you will find where the mind separates from the truth, and thus ultimately from God. If you can not believe the truth that is of God, then when God comes you will not believe this is your God. Will you be among the many who will cry come judgment day, "rocks fall on us, hide us from Him" . God does not separate Himself from us. We separate ourselves from God by what we believe.
 

MoreCoffee

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Okay, you didn't or you're unwilling to say that you did.

Post #46 shows that there is no such things as a "carnal Christian". What saint Paul says is that immature Christians can act as if they were not Christians.
 

psalms 91

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Okay, you didn't or you're unwilling to say that you did.

Post #46 shows that there is no such things as a "carnal Christian". What saint Paul says is that immature Christians can act as if they were not Christians.
I should not be surp[rised that you would deny carnal christians, I will stick to the truth which is easy enough to verify by walking in any church and seeing how many are spiritual
 

Full O Beans

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Okay, you didn't or you're unwilling to say that you did.

Post #46 shows that there is no such things as a "carnal Christian". What saint Paul says is that immature Christians can act as if they were not Christians.
Paul teaches you what a carnal Christian is. I agree with him. No slant on it but simple belief in the words he wrote.
 

MoreCoffee

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Paul teaches you what a carnal Christian is. I agree with him. No slant on it but simple belief in the words he wrote.

Saint Paul never heard of a "Carnal Christian" the concept is very modern and very wrong.
 
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