Infant Baptism

[Full O Beans]

Pony up the verse that says "baptism doesn't save"? Put your scripture where your mouth is. Or admit that no such verse exists.

There is no fistibct verse, and I think you know that, but the volume of scriptures that refer to baptism does NOT teach that baptism saves anyone. It is a command for people who are saved ALREADY.

If what you think is true, why don't you go out to the streets with a hose?

 

[MoreCoffee]

There is no specific verse

There's no such verse. But there is a specific verse that says baptism saves you. 1 Peter 3:21 says Baptism saves you. But you deny it. You contradict an explicit word from God.

, and I think you know that, but the volume of scriptures that refer to baptism does NOT teach that baptism saves anyone. It is a command for people who are saved ALREADY.

If what you think is true, why don't you go out to the streets with a hose?

 

[Lamb]

Staff Notice:

The taunting in this thread needs to stop now. Everyone posting in here loves God, follows His Word and believes scripture to what they hold is true. This is turning into a place of shame and that stops now. Cool down bans have been mentioned in the staff forum if the baiting and instigating attitudes continue.

 

[Full O Beans]

There's no such verse. But there is a specific verse that says baptism saves you. 1 Peter 3:21 says Baptism saves you. But you deny it. You contradict an explicit word from God.

You misapprehend the meaning of scripture, there, like far too many people do.

You can't accuse me of contradicting any scripture, and you need to stop addressing me personally.

 

[Full O Beans]

Staff Notice:

The taunting in this thread needs to stop now. Everyone posting in here loves God, follows His Word and believes scripture to what they hold is true. This is turning into a place of shame and that stops now. Cool down bans have been mentioned in the staff forum if the baiting and instigating attitudes continue.

Thank you.

 

[TurtleHare]

There is no verse in the bible that says that God will not baptize a baby.

Put yourselves into that historical period where to the Jews family was essential and their focus wasn't on self as it is today but more of a community feel. In verse Acts 2:38-39 they knew that God was acting in baptism and that it was for their children too. They would have panicked if God excluded their families. Did God exclude babies when he rescued them out of Egypt?

Jesus instructed the disciples on what to do and He told them to Baptize and teach. Order was not specific. Faith was not demanded first and that is because God's Word brings faith and there is way too much doubt concerning God's ability to give faith to an infant but even Jesus said there were babies praising him as he rode the donkey as he went to celebrate Passover. No one would praise Him without having faith in Him and it wouldn't have been mentioned in scripture if it wasn't true and yes I believe in scripture and yes I know God's Word is powerful and can do great things. When GOd said Let there be light you do realize there was light? But tell someone that God can baptize a baby and people go into denial and say it isn't true, but it IS. God is the one who baptizes. It's in His name that we RECEIVE baptism.

 

[Lamb]

There is no verse in the bible that says that God will not baptize a baby.

Put yourselves into that historical period where to the Jews family was essential and their focus wasn't on self as it is today but more of a community feel. In verse Acts 2:38-39 they knew that God was acting in baptism and that it was for their children too. They would have panicked if God excluded their families. Did God exclude babies when he rescued them out of Egypt?

Jesus instructed the disciples on what to do and He told them to Baptize and teach. Order was not specific. Faith was not demanded first and that is because God's Word brings faith and there is way too much doubt concerning God's ability to give faith to an infant but even Jesus said there were babies praising him as he rode the donkey as he went to celebrate Passover. No one would praise Him without having faith in Him and it wouldn't have been mentioned in scripture if it wasn't true and yes I believe in scripture and yes I know God's Word is powerful and can do great things. When GOd said Let there be light you do realize there was light? But tell someone that God can baptize a baby and people go into denial and say it isn't true, but it IS. God is the one who baptizes. It's in His name that we RECEIVE baptism.

Good points.

John the Baptist...I've used verses about him leaping for joy in the womb but there is also this:

Luke 1:15. For he [John the Baptist] will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

He was filled with the Holy Spirit while in the womb. How great is that? He didn't have to consent did he?

 

[Full O Beans]

Can babies meet the conditions that must precede water baptism?

The Bible reveals that a person must do certain things before he can be baptized. If these things are not done, then the baptism would not be Scriptural. So we ask whether or not a baby can fulfill the Scriptural prerequisites of baptism.

Note that God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34,35; Rom. 2:11), so there are not two sets of prerequisites for baptism - one for babies and one for adults. Whatever the Bible requires of some people to be baptized, it requires the same of all people.

Acts 10:34-35
Then Peter replied, “I see very clearly that God shows no favoritism. 35 In every nation he accepts those who fear him and do what is right.

Romans 2:11
For God does not show favoritism.

Before baptism one must hear and understand the gospel:

Mark 16:15-16
And then he told them, “Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone. 16 Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 6:44-45
For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up. 45 As it is written in the Scriptures, ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

Can babies hear and understand the gospel?

Before baptism one must believe the gospel:

Acts 8:12
But now the people believed Philip’s message of Good News concerning the Kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ. As a result, many men and women were baptized.

Galatians 3:26-27
For you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes

Can babies believe the gospel?

One cannot be baptized on the basis of someone else's faith, such as a parent's faith. No one else can believe for us, just like no one can be baptized for us.

Before baptism, one must repent of sins:

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Can babies repent of sins?

Before baptism, one must confess Christ:

Romans 10:9-10
If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved.

Acts 8:35-39
So beginning with this same Scripture, Philip told him the Good News about Jesus.

36 As they rode along, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look! There’s some water! Why can’t I be baptized?” 38 He ordered the carriage to stop, and they went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.

39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away. The eunuch never saw him again but went on his way rejoicing.

Can a baby confess Christ with his mouth when he cannot speak?

So...the above are four things the Bible says every person must personally do before he can be baptized. As our Father is no respecter of persons, then the plan is the same for everyone. The word tells us that before anyone can be baptized, he must hear and understand the gospel, believe it, repent of sins, and confess Christ. Our babies are unable to do any of these things. Therefore, the command to be baptized is not addressed to them. To baptize them anyway would be to act without God's authority. It would be doing something different from and even opposed to what God says must be done.

What does God reveal to us in His word concerning those who do things their own way---even when to them it seems good?


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[Lamb]

God's Word brings faith as we all know. Ephesians 5:26 states that baptism is water and WORD.

Would God deny a baby faith?

 

[Full O Beans]

God's Word brings faith as we all know. Ephesians 5:26 states that baptism is water and WORD.

Would God deny a baby faith?

Ephesians 5:25-27
For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her 26 to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God’s word. 27 He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault.

This is the picture of the Church, the Body of Christ---all believers, washed by the water of the word of God. It has nothing to do with baptism, or of young children.

 

[Lamb]

God's Word is in baptism. He attaches promises to those waters of how He works to bring the benefits of the cross. Be baptized means something is happening to you. It's God's Work. God baptizes. We receive. God gifts us. We receive. It's not me-theology. It's about our triune God and all He does for us. Let's bring God back into the picture again because people keep pushing him out.

 

[Josiah]

Not one verse to support this new, rare tradition of Mr. Thomas Muenzer - to withhold baptism from those under the age of X.

 

[Lamb]

Not one verse to support this new, rare tradition of Mr. Thomas Muenzer - to withhold baptism from those under the age of X.

54 pages and nothing as proof yet, huh? :scratchchin:

I'm beginning to think you're onto something. OH wait. I agreed with you in the beginning. :arms:

 

[Full O Beans]

God's Word is in baptism. He attaches promises to those waters of how He works to bring the benefits of the cross. Be baptized means something is happening to you. It's God's Work. God baptizes. We receive. God gifts us. We receive. It's not me-theology. It's about our triune God and all He does for us. Let's bring God back into the picture again because people keep pushing him out.

Can you please post the scriptures that teach you that something is happening to a baby when someone holds him under water and declares a rite over him?

He says children are the heritage of the Lord to those who believe. Our job before God is not to baptize them (actually it is done out of fear), but rather to train them up in the things of God, so that they will walk in His ways when they are older.

Proverbs 22:6
Direct your children onto the right path,
and when they are older, they will not leave it.

Deuteronomy 6:6-7
These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be [written] on your heart and mind. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your [a]children [impressing God’s precepts on their minds and penetrating their hearts with His truths] and shall speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up.

It is a Christian parent's great blessing to be able to lead their children to Jesus Christ and watch the Lord lead him or her into the waters of baptism as he or she obeys God in this command.

 

[Lamb]

Can you please post the scriptures that teach you that something is happening to a baby when someone holds him under water and declares a rite over him?

Holds him under water? What kind of infant baptisms have you been too?

God's Word works faith. I've already stated that His Word is in baptism. It's God's Word that makes it a baptism and not just getting wet. Don't you know that the Holy Spirit is where God's Word is?

 

[Josiah]

54 pages and nothing as proof yet, huh? :scratchchin:

NOTHING. We're just told - over and over and over and over - that there is some verse that forbids those under the age of X from receiving baptism. Evidently, this is the verse that NO ONE ON THE PLANET notice, from at least 69 AD at the very latest (when there was no "withhold" baptism for those under the age of X existed - anywhere) until this wackedoodle German, Mr. Thomas Muenzer in the 16th Century, SUDDENLY found the verse. We've been told for 54 pages the verse exists but so far, no one has chosen to quote the verse. What they've done is quote many verses that show their new withholding to be without biblical mandate, and a LOT of attempts to change the subject, hijack the thread, run from the issue - to a PLETHORA of OTHER issues..... again on THOSE staying "Scripture states" and then proving it states no such thing.





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[Full O Beans]

Holds him under water? What kind of infant baptisms have you been too?

None, but as baptism means to be immersed, and that is how the first churches practiced it, we do the same today---no reason to change it.

God's Word works faith. I've already stated that His Word is in baptism. It's God's Word that makes it a baptism and not just getting wet. Don't you know that the Holy Spirit is where God's Word is?

Can you please produce scripture that points to this belief? Thanks.

 

[Full O Beans]

54 pages and nothing as proof yet, huh? :scratchchin:

I'm beginning to think you're onto something. OH wait. I agreed with you in the beginning. :arms:

Try reading and digesting post #528.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You misapprehend the meaning of scripture, there, like far too many people do.

You can't accuse me of contradicting any scripture, and you need to stop addressing me personally.

It says "baptism saves you" and you say "baptism saves nobody" that's pretty direct contradiction.

Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
(1 Peter 3:21 NASB)

 

[MoreCoffee]

Can babies meet the conditions that must precede water baptism?...

Aren't all the verses you quoted specifically addressed to people who are adults? Not really relevant to infants.

Matthew 28:19-20 teaches that those who administer baptism are to teach. Well every Church that baptises infants teaches them too.

The other passages you've cited are either not relevant to baptism or are addressed to adults. Most of the passages are addressed to men but not many Christians would exclude women from baptism so the principle is not to restrict baptism (or anything else) to precisely and exactly the cases explicitly mentioned in holy scripture. We baptise women, we baptise infants and so forth.