Infant Baptism

[MoreCoffee]

You win the prize. Faith. Not water.

That's wrong. It is grace that saves not faith. Faith is instrumental just like baptism. Recall what Jesus said? "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." Baptism is in water and the Holy Spirit. Baptism saves us (1 Peter 3:21). It washes away out sins (Acts 22:16). It unites us to Christ and begins our new life (Romans 6:1-14).

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[MoreCoffee]

Baptism for salvation IS A WORK...and is a false belief

It sure is false. Why did you invent it? We say that we receive baptism because we are baptised by somebody else and we do nothing in baptism. We don't earn it, we don't prove anything by it, we don't need to prove our worthiness before we're allowed to receive it. The truth is that infants who are baptised make no grand claims about themselves and demand nothing of anybody when they receive it. Like the little children of whom the Lord said "for of such is the kingdom of heaven" we receive a gift from God in baptism as a grace not as payment for the work of faith as you appear to teach your baptism was.

of far too many. Mostly it is due to false denominational teaching.

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[Full O Beans]

You will never be saved by grace apart from faith.

Jesus never mentioned one word about baptism to Nicodemus in John 3.

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[Full O Beans]

Lol...so a baptized baby grows up to be an atheist or a murder, cursing Jesus Christ all his life. What did baptism do for that one?

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[MoreCoffee]

You will never be saved by grace apart from faith.

I wish you'd worded that in accord with the holy scriptures and said that you will never be saved by faith apart from grace because salvation is a grace not a work and faith is a work. The holy scriptures say "Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, ..." (1 Thessalonians 1:3) and again "Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power" (2 Thessalonians 1:11) Faith is a work, grace is not.

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[MoreCoffee]

Lol...so a baptized baby grows up to be an atheist or a murder, cursing Jesus Christ all his life. What did baptism do for that one?

Baptism does exactly the same thing for the infant that you describe as it does for an adult Charismatic who is baptised and then murders, cursing Jesus for the rest of his/her life. What do you think baptism does?

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[Full O Beans]

Baptism saves no one who has no faith to believe in Jesus...and that includes babies. You're right...it does the same thing----it gets 'em wet!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Baptism saves no one who has no faith to believe in Jesus.

You keep saying that. Repeating yourself doesn't make your claims true. Baptism saves us according to the holy scriptures. According to your opinion baptism doesn't save. I am not going to believe your opinion over the teaching of holy scripture.

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[Full O Beans]

It appears I must repeat the truth many times over. I guess the simplicity of the gospel is too much for some. If water saves us, then Jesus' shed blood is a waste.

We are saved by God's great grace through faith. Baptism in an ordinance that those who have already been saved are commanded to do! It is for those who have come to faith and their salvation ALREADY!

 

[MoreCoffee]

It appears I must repeat the truth

When you present the truth instead of your erroneous opinion I'll rejoice. So far you haven't produced anything from the holy scripture that teaches the erroneous view of baptism to which you hold. You appear to be satisfied with the traditions of men more than with the teaching of Christ.

many times over. I guess the simplicity of the gospel is too much for some. If water saves us, then Jesus' shed blood is a waste.

We are saved by God's great grace through faith. Baptism in an ordinance that those who have already been saved are commanded to do! It is for those who have come to faith and their salvation ALREADY!

 

[Full O Beans]

Salvation:

Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes—the Jew first and also the Gentile

John 3:16
“For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.


In 2 Corinthians 13, Paul gives us an instruction on testing ourselves concerning our salvation. NOT ONCE did he mention baptism as a positive test of our salvation.

So...how does one know if one is saved? Certainly one cannot point to water baptism, especially those who were baptized by someone as an infant, for one cannot be saved through a conference of God's saving grace by an act done to someone. Instead, we must attribute our salvation to a more reliable test or marker: the very presence of God in your life.

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ didn’t send me to baptize, but to preach the Good News—and not with clever speech, for fear that the cross of Christ would lose its power.

If water baptism was a requirement for salvation Christ would have sent Paul the apostle to baptize. However, Paul was not sent to water baptize but to preach the gospel of which water baptism is not an essential element.



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[Full O Beans]

A few quick points:

1. Babies don’t even know their name, let alone the name of Jesus.

2. When a baby can obey its mother and father, then maybe he/she can obey God.

3. When a baby develops the ability to obey its Godly mother and father, then it will be presented with the opportunity to obey God.

4. Baptism is something we do in obedience. It isn't something we have others do to us.

5. Salvation, righteousness and justification is not imparted by proxy---except by the blood of Jesus, as we come to Him ourselves as individual sinners in repentance!


It is so sadly obvious that this exhortative portion of Hebrews 6 is applicable to a few select members in this forum:

Hebrews 6:1-3
So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. 2 You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.

BUT...apparently further instruction about baptisms is necessary.

1 Timothy 6:3-5; 20-21
Some people may contradict our teaching, but these are the wholesome teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. These teachings promote a godly life. 4 Anyone who teaches something different is arrogant and lacks understanding. Such a person has an unhealthy desire to quibble over the meaning of words. This stirs up arguments ending in jealousy, division, slander, and evil suspicions. 5 These people always cause trouble. Their minds are corrupt, and they have turned their backs on the truth.

20 Timothy, guard what God has entrusted to you. Avoid godless, foolish discussions with those who oppose you with their so-called knowledge. 21 Some people have wandered from the faith by following such foolishness.


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[Full O Beans]

When you present the truth instead of your erroneous opinion I'll rejoice. So far you haven't produced anything from the holy scripture that teaches the erroneous view of baptism to which you hold. You appear to be satisfied with the traditions of men more than with the teaching of Christ.

Actually, I would love to see your independent offering of scripture, apart from the typical Catholic party line.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Salvation:
Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes—the Jew first and also the Gentile
John 3:16
“For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

In 2 Corinthians 13, Paul gives us an instruction on testing ourselves concerning our salvation. NOT ONCE did he mention baptism as a positive test of our salvation.

You misunderstand saint Paul's words in 2 Corinthians 13. He starts with "Put yourselves to the test to make sure you are in the faith. Examine yourselves. Do you not recognise yourselves as people in whom Jesus Christ is present? - unless, that is, you fail the test." (2 Corinthians 13:5) He does not say "test your salvation" he says "test to make sure you are in the faith".

So...how does one know if one is saved? Certainly one cannot point to water baptism, especially those who were baptized by someone as an infant, for one cannot be saved through a conference of God's saving grace by an act done to someone. Instead, we must attribute our salvation to a more reliable test or marker: the very presence of God in your life.

Your reasoning is erroneous. The passage is about testing that one is in THE FAITH and that is not the same thing as testing one's state of grace unless you fail the test by being a heretic or an apostate.

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ didn’t send me to baptize, but to preach the Good News—and not with clever speech, for fear that the cross of Christ would lose its power.

If water baptism was a requirement for salvation Christ would have sent Paul the apostle to baptize. However, Paul was not sent to water baptize but to preach the gospel of which water baptism is not an essential element.

Your reasoning is in error. Saint Paul did baptise some and others baptised too. It's your imagination that says saint Paul MUST baptise if he is preaching the gospel. That's just bad reasoning on your part. I can tell you the truth of the gospel without needing to baptise you and so could saint Paul. In fact he did exactly that. But his preaching did not change what holy scripture says in 1 Peter 3:21, Acts 22:16, and Romans 6:1-14.

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[Full O Beans]

Paul never said, "Have you been baptized?" which would definitely be an appropriate query if baptism saved anyone!

Baptism is referred to as a figure---not a vehicle for salvation!

I don't follow human reasoning. I follow a careful study of the word of God over decades of walking in relationship with Jesus Christ.

You still cannot produce any solid scripture other than the typically misinterpreted references so often used.

 

[MoreCoffee]

A few quick points:

1. Babies don’t even know their name, let alone the name of Jesus.

2. When a baby can obey its mother and father, then maybe he/she can obey God.

3. When a baby develops the ability to obey its Godly mother and father, then it will be presented with the opportunity to obey God.

4. Baptism is something we do in obedience. It isn't something we have others do to us.

You teach salvation by works of obedience! No wonder you reject baptism as the grace of God given without prerequisites and not earned by works. The gospel is good news from God. It is the good news that God saves his people because he loves them. Not because they work their way into his favour and not because they earn his approval. You are still in your works if you believe that baptism is your act of obedience given to God. Repent. Believe the gospel. That is the message of salvation.

5. Salvation, righteousness and justification is not imparted by proxy---except by the blood of Jesus, as we come to Him ourselves as individual sinners in repentance!


It is so sadly obvious that this exhortative portion of Hebrews 6 is applicable to a few select members in this forum:

Hebrews 6:1-3
So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. 2 You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.

BUT...apparently further instruction about baptisms is necessary.

1 Timothy 6:3-5; 20-21
Some people may contradict our teaching, but these are the wholesome teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. These teachings promote a godly life. 4 Anyone who teaches something different is arrogant and lacks understanding. Such a person has an unhealthy desire to quibble over the meaning of words. This stirs up arguments ending in jealousy, division, slander, and evil suspicions. 5 These people always cause trouble. Their minds are corrupt, and they have turned their backs on the truth.

20 Timothy, guard what God has entrusted to you. Avoid godless, foolish discussions with those who oppose you with their so-called knowledge. 21 Some people have wandered from the faith by following such foolishness.

 

[Full O Beans]

What? Salvation is not received through works of any kind! We are saved only by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Don't just throw nonsensical assertions around when there is no basis given for them.

When a believer submits to baptism, he is obeying God. A believer who doesn't obey God in baptism is still a believer, but misguided----because baptism doesn't save. Only faith in Jesus and what He did for our salvation can save.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What? Salvation is not received through works of any kind!

Do you depend on your works?

We are saved only by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Don't just throw nonsensical assertions around when there is no basis given for them.

Saving is all his idea, and all his work. All we do is trust him enough to let him do it. It's God's gift from start to finish! We don't play the major role. If we did, we'd probably go around bragging that we'd done the whole thing! No, we neither make nor save ourselves. God does both the making and saving. He creates each of us by Christ Jesus to join him in the work he does, the good work he has gotten ready for us to do, work we had better be doing.
(Ephesians 2:8-10)

 

[MoreCoffee]

Paul never said, "Have you been baptized?"

which would definitely be an appropriate query if baptism saved anyone!

Baptism is referred to as a figure---not a vehicle for salvation!

I don't follow human reasoning. I follow a careful study of the word of God over decades of walking in relationship with Jesus Christ.

You still cannot produce any solid scripture other than the typically misinterpreted references so often used.

"How were you baptized, then?" asked Paul. ... (Acts 19:3)

 

[Full O Beans]

No one should depend on one's works.

If you really believe that salvation is all God's doing, then you would agree wholeheartedly that something we are commanded to do---baptism---doesn't save. Only Jesus' blood cleanses us from sin!

As only believers are commanded to be baptized, you should understand that the command is not to unbelievers. They are not required! And it follows that as babies are unbelievers, baptism is not for them.