Misery and mercy

[MoreCoffee]

I am seeing what you are saying.. you think that mercy is directly tied to a response to sin. When I rescue a child drowning in water, it is out of love not a response to their sin, which I don't believe is in this instance. Mercy is showing love. It is not directly related to evidence of sin.

You cannot rescue a drowning child from the waters if there is no child and no waters. It is not sin specifically that is needed for mercy but a creature in need of it. If there are no creatures then no mercy can be shown to them. As it happens creatures need mercy from God because of sins, not necessarily because of some specific sin of their own but because of sins and the curse that came from the first sin. Romans chapter five explains the the relationship between the first sin and subsequent sins and Romans chapter eight explains the implications for the whole of creation.

 

[visionary]

OK... why is Joseph being showed mercy when he committed no crime, no sin?

Genesis 39:21 But the Lord was with Joseph, and shewed him mercy, and gave him favour in the sight of the keeper of the prison.

 

[MoreCoffee]

OK... why is Joseph being showed mercy when he committed no crime, no sin?

Genesis 39:21 But the Lord was with Joseph, and shewed him mercy, and gave him favour in the sight of the keeper of the prison.

Because Joseph was in prison because of the sins of Potiphar's wife.

 

[visionary]

Yet Joseph sinned not... so he was in no need of mercy according to what you have been saying.

I say mercy is showing love and there need not be a sinner to receive it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yet Joseph sinned not... so he was in no need of mercy according to what you have been saying.

I say mercy is showing love and there need not be a sinner to receive it.

Joseph was in need of mercy, he needed to be freed from unjust imprisonment. God herd his cry and set him free. God made him second only to Pharaoh in the kingdom of Egypt. But Joseph needed mercy because of the sins of Potiphar's wife when she falsely accused him and caused him to be imprisoned. It is evident that you're reading of the principle is too narrow because you give every appearance of thinking that mercy is shown only for the sins that the one seeking mercy has committed when in fact mercy is shown for the consequences of sins both committed by the one asking for it and the sins committed by others which oppress the one asking for mercy. Sins have effects far wider than those that affect the individual who commits them.

 

[visionary]

Joseph was in need of mercy, he needed to be freed from unjust imprisonment. God herd his cry and set him free. God made him second only to Pharaoh in the kingdom of Egypt. But Joseph needed mercy because of the sins of Potiphar's wife when she falsely accused him and caused him to be imprisoned. It is evident that you're reading of the principle is too narrow because you give every appearance of thinking that mercy is shown only for the sins that the one seeking mercy has committed when in fact mercy is shown for the consequences of sins both committed by the one asking for it and the sins committed by others which oppress the one asking for mercy. Sins have effects far wider than those that affect the individual who commits them.

Ahhh.. so mercy doesn't have to present itself in sinful cases only.... Mercy is evidence of love...God is love... therefore mercy has always been whether there is evidence of sin or not.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ahhh.. so mercy doesn't have to present itself in sinful cases only.... Mercy is evidence of love...God is love... therefore mercy has always been whether there is evidence of sin or not.

Did you read the first post in this thread?

 

[visionary]

Did you read the first post in this thread?

Now we are in agreement... Mercy does not have to be revealed in sinful cases only.. IT is just the nature of love. God always is merciful, long before there was sin.

 

[psalms 91]

OK... why is Joseph being showed mercy when he committed no crime, no sin?

Genesis 39:21 But the Lord was with Joseph, and shewed him mercy, and gave him favour in the sight of the keeper of the prison.

His sin was peide which is what led him there

 

[visionary]

His sin was peide which is what led him there

Pride?

 

[psalms 91]

Yes it is what the brothers hated as was his position with his father and he rubbed it in it seems like. Had to know telling them the dream where the sheaves bowed down would make them jealous and I think pride was his fault and that led him into slavery and all that followed. Of course God used it to His glory but wow how much he could have avoided

 

[visionary]

There is not a hint of pride in his character whether a slave or master.

 

[Alithis]

Yet Joseph sinned not... so he was in no need of mercy according to what you have been saying.

I say mercy is showing love and there need not be a sinner to receive it.

dont worry - God is merciful .. is encapsulated in "God is love ". love is a plurality .
as far as joseph goes .his very enslavement and imprisonment and subsequent rise was ALL gods mercy to those that would folow him to egypt and thier subsequent enslavement and imprisonment and deliverance was all gods mercy to those that would folow them ..being us all . ..god displays his mercy in creating us at all .it was merciful to create us . all praise be to God

 

[psalms 91]

There is not a hint of pride in his character whether a slave or master.

What was it called with his brothers?

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Not to sinners nor among sinners but in the Blessed Trinity there is no sin and hence no face of mercy shown because there is nothing for which mercy is needed. To fallen creation Love is shown in Mercy.

So you're differentiating an act and an attribute? Mercy = Act, Love = Attribute.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I say mercy is showing love and there need not be a sinner to receive it.

Then what use is there for the mercy of God, if there is no sin? Mercy is not needed.

 

[visionary]

Then what use is there for the mercy of God, if there is no sin? Mercy is not needed.

Can you imagine in the perfect world to come a God who is without mercy.

 

[MoreCoffee]

So you're differentiating an act and an attribute? Mercy = Act, Love = Attribute.

Perhaps but the language I chose to use was of faces (or aspects) thus love shows its face as mercy when sinners cry out to God for mercy in Christ. Without sins and the suffering brought about by sins (not only personal sins but the fall of the whole of creation because of sins) mercy is not needed.

 

[visionary]

One's jealousy is not the other's pride. Most people are not jealous of someone else's pride. In fact, most find pride odious.

 

[visionary]

Perhaps but the language I chose to use was of faces (or aspects) thus love shows its face as mercy when sinners cry out to God for mercy in Christ. Without sins and the suffering brought about by sins (not only personal sins but the fall of the whole of creation because of sins) mercy is not needed.

Can you imagine a world without mercy? Does that sound like heaven to you?