Birth control

[dogs4thewin]

Who here approves of it? Who here does not and why?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Who here approves of it? Who here does not and why?

I do not approve nor do I disapprove of birth control but my Church teaches me to eschew artificial birth control and I obey that teaching.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I do not approve nor do I disapprove of birth control but my Church teaches me to eschew artificial birth control and I obey that teaching.

Artificial birth control?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Artificial birth control?

Condoms, the pill, surgery and so forth.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I love your reply. You do not use it, but you have NO problem with others using it. I LOVE that stance.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Condoms, the pill, surgery and so forth.

So what should someone do who either does NOT want them ( children are not for everyone) or someone like me who ffeels as they they could not properly CARE for them because of their own health or some other reason.

 

[psalms 91]

I have no problem with someone using birth control but am totally against abortion

 

[MoreCoffee]

So what should someone do who either does NOT want them ( children are not for everyone) or someone like me who ffeels as they they could not properly CARE for them because of their own health or some other reason.

That's a little bit difficult to define but the purpose of sex within marriage is (at least in part) procreation and that is why the holy scriptures say that "the two shall be one flesh" (Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5-6) because they not only become one by sexual congress but also produce one flesh made of their two bodies (their children being the one flesh produced). Sex is also enjoyable and that also is a purpose for sex within marriage. So when a married couple no longer want any more children then they must mutually agree to abstain from sexual congress either altogether or at times when procreation is likely to be the outcome. However, sex always carries within it the possibility of conceiving a child unless artificial means are used to prevent that from happening. It is the decision to rob sex of one of its God given purposes that is the root the many kinds of sin relating to sex. Promiscuity certainly has increased since "the pill" was created and when reliable condoms and safe surgical vasectomy became possible promiscuity was somewhat boosted thereby.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I have no problem with someone using birth control but am totally against abortion

Your comment reflects the moral outlook of the world rather than the teaching of Christ.

 

[dogs4thewin]

That's a little bit difficult to define but the purpose of sex within marriage is (at least in part) procreation and that is why the holy scriptures say that "the two shall be one flesh" (Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5-6) because they not only become one by sexual congress but also produce one flesh made of their two bodies (their children being the one flesh produced). Sex is also enjoyable and that also is a purpose for sex within marriage. So when a married couple no longer want any more children then they must mutually agree to abstain from sexual congress either altogether or at times when procreation is likely to be the outcome. However, sex always carries within it the possibility of conceiving a child unless artificial means are used to prevent that from happening. It is the decision to rob sex of one of its God given purposes that is the root the many kinds of sin relating to sex. Promiscuity certainly has increased since "the pill" was created and when reliable condoms and safe surgical vasectomy became possible promiscuity was somewhat boosted thereby.

In addition, there are other reasons one may choose to go on birth control. This is personal, but I have chosen to use the shot as a way to prevent my monthly; as I needed help dealing with it. I also feel as though, since God wants and even commands us to care for our own birth control is a way to ensure we do not have children we cannot afford.

 

[MoreCoffee]

In addition there are other reasons one may choose to go on birth control. This is personal, but I have chosen to use the shot as a way to prevent my monthly; as I needed help dealing with it. I also feel as though, since God wants and even commands us to care for our own birth control is a way to ensure we do not have children we cannot afford.

Make sure that your personal choices are just and merciful as well a humble before God and I think you will do well (Micah 6:8 KJV).

 

[Josiah]

The RC Denomination is - by far - the world's largest, foremost, religious advocate, promoter and teacher of contraceptive sex birth control in the world, in all of human history. The only denomination that often conducts classes in birth control and how to have sex contraceptively right there at the parish center of its locally owned and operated parish. There's the number one promoter.



- Josiah

 

[MotorCityChristian]

I support birth control and contraception. I think using birth control will limit the chances of an unwanted pregnancy. I don't want to run the risk of more abortions. I completely support the use of condoms too because it is an extra step in preventing pregnancy. And there are still so many diseases out there. I would rather that if a teenager does have premarital sex that they be protected from STD's, especially HIV. The states with the highest incidences of STD's are in the south where there isn't as much access to condoms and the shame is larger.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The RC Denomination is - by far - the world's largest, foremost, religious advocate, promoter and teacher of contraceptive sex birth control in the world, in all of human history. The only denomination that often conducts classes in birth control and how to have sex contraceptively right there at the parish center of its locally owned and operated parish. There's the number one promoter.

- Josiah

Yet no artificial contraceptives are promoted by those classes and Catholic Christians are taught to refrain from the use of artificial means intended to thwart natural sexual reproductive processes. What is taught is the proper observance of human reproductive cycles as a means of safely and naturally controlling conception. It is a lot like following a careful and healthy diet to avoid obesity. The Catechism of the Catholic Church has this to say on the subject:

The fecundity of marriage

2366 Fecundity is a gift, an end of marriage, for conjugal love naturally tends to be fruitful. A child does not come from outside as something added on to the mutual love of the spouses, but springs from the very heart of that mutual giving, as its fruit and fulfilment. So the Church, which is “on the side of life,” teaches that “it is necessary that each and every marriage act remain ordered per se to the procreation of human life.” “This particular doctrine, expounded on numerous occasions by the Magisterium, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act.” ( ⇒ Eph 3:14; ⇒ Mt 23:9.)

Ephesians 3:14-19 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, (15) from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, (16) that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with might through his Spirit in the inner man, (17) and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, (18) may have power to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, (19) and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fulness of God.

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
​

2367 Called to give life, spouses share in the creative power and fatherhood of God. “Married couples should regard it as their proper mission to transmit human life and to educate their children; they should realise that they are thereby cooperating with the love of God the Creator and are, in a certain sense, its interpreters. They will fulfil this duty with a sense of human and Christian responsibility.”

2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts, criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.​

2369 “By safeguarding both these essential aspects, the unitive and the procreative, the conjugal act preserves in its fullness the sense of true mutual love and its orientation toward man’s exalted vocation to parenthood.”

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:

Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality.... The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle... involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.​

2371 “Let all be convinced that human life and the duty of transmitting it are not limited by the horizons of this life only: their true evaluation and full significance can be understood only in reference to man’s eternal destiny.”

2372 The state has a responsibility for its citizens’ well-being. In this capacity it is legitimate for it to intervene to orient the demography of the population. This can be done by means of objective and respectful information, but certainly not by authoritarian, coercive measures. The state may not legitimately usurp the initiative of spouses, who have the primary responsibility for the procreation and education of their children.162 In this area, it is not authorized to employ means contrary to the moral law.​

 

[Josiah]

Since the midst of the "Sexual Revolution" of the 1960's, the RC Denomination has been - BY FAR - the largest, boldest, foremost, religious promoter, teacher and advocate of contraceptive sex. Indeed, the ONLY denomination that actually conducts extensive classes - often right on the campus of your local RC owned and operated parish - in how to have sex contraceptively: all the sex without the conception, the baby, the child, the life. All the fun without the consequences.hn

Wanna have lots and lots of fun sex - but without the conception, the baby, the life? Go to your local RC owned parish! They'll teach you how! They are quite obsessed with teaching couples how to do this!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Since the midst of the "Sexual Revolution" of the 1960's, the RC Denomination has been - BY FAR - the largest, boldest, foremost, religious promoter, teacher and advocate of contraceptive sex.

You write these things with tricky words that serve only to obscure matters. Anybody reading the CCC material in my previous post will see how deceptive your characterisation of the matter is. It borders on blatant misrepresentation, I hope it is not deliberate misrepresentation.

Indeed, the ONLY denomination that actually conducts extensive classes - often right on the campus of your local RC owned and operated parish - in how to have sex contraceptively: all the sex without the conception, the baby, the child, the life. All the fun without the consequences.hn

Wanna have lots and lots of fun sex - but without the conception, the baby, the life? Go to your local RC owned parish! They'll teach you how! They are quite obsessed with teaching couples how to do this!

Here's the CCC teaching on the matter.

The fecundity of marriage

2366 Fecundity is a gift, an end of marriage, for conjugal love naturally tends to be fruitful. A child does not come from outside as something added on to the mutual love of the spouses, but springs from the very heart of that mutual giving, as its fruit and fulfilment. So the Church, which is “on the side of life,” teaches that “it is necessary that each and every marriage act remain ordered per se to the procreation of human life.” “This particular doctrine, expounded on numerous occasions by the Magisterium, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act.” ( ⇒ Eph 3:14; ⇒ Mt 23:9.)

Ephesians 3:14-19 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, (15) from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, (16) that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with might through his Spirit in the inner man, (17) and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, (18) may have power to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, (19) and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fulness of God.

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
​

2367 Called to give life, spouses share in the creative power and fatherhood of God. “Married couples should regard it as their proper mission to transmit human life and to educate their children; they should realise that they are thereby cooperating with the love of God the Creator and are, in a certain sense, its interpreters. They will fulfil this duty with a sense of human and Christian responsibility.”

2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts, criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.​

2369 “By safeguarding both these essential aspects, the unitive and the procreative, the conjugal act preserves in its fullness the sense of true mutual love and its orientation toward man’s exalted vocation to parenthood.”

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:

Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality.... The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle... involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.​

2371 “Let all be convinced that human life and the duty of transmitting it are not limited by the horizons of this life only: their true evaluation and full significance can be understood only in reference to man’s eternal destiny.”

2372 The state has a responsibility for its citizens’ well-being. In this capacity it is legitimate for it to intervene to orient the demography of the population. This can be done by means of objective and respectful information, but certainly not by authoritarian, coercive measures. The state may not legitimately usurp the initiative of spouses, who have the primary responsibility for the procreation and education of their children.162 In this area, it is not authorized to employ means contrary to the moral law.​

 

[psalms 91]

Yep we all know how wellmthe rtyhem method worked out for Catholics who followed it

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yep we all know how well the rhythm method worked out for Catholics who followed it

I don't think it is used now. You are operating on 50 year old ideas.

The basics

Catholic natural family planning is a way to avoid or achieve pregnancy based on awareness of a woman's fertility.

This is not the "rhythm method!"

NFP is based on the fact that a woman's body gives certain signs about the different phases of her monthly fertility cycle. Catholic natural family planning teaches you to observe and interpret these signs to determine when a woman is fertile.

To achieve pregnancy, you should have sexual intercourse at the peak of this fertile time. To avoid conception, avoid intercourse during the fertile time.

It's really quite simple!​

NFP is 99 - 100% effective
for avoiding pregnancy

Catholic natural family planning is one of the most effective methods of avoiding pregnancy.

The Couple to Couple League has a detailed article about the effectiveness of Catholic natural family planning. It examines several widely accepted scientific studies that show an effectiveness rate of 99% to 100%!

Actually, this effectiveness is not so surprising. A woman's body is not fertile for most of her monthly cycle. NFP simply lets you determine when the fertile and infertile times occur.

This is great news to people concerned about health, morality, and even just those who want to live more in tune with the natural rhythms of our bodies. Catholic natural family planning is just as effective as "the pill", but without its moral and health problems!​

With the body, not against it

Although NFP is sometimes called natural contraception, alternative contraception, and even Catholic contraception, please realize that it's very different than true contraception.

The term contraception applies to acts that deliberately impede conception — it's a refusal of fertility.
NFP uses the female body's natural rhythm of fertility to either avoid or achieve pregnancy. This is not contraception.
It may seem like a small & technical distinction, but in terms of morality, there is a world of difference. This is especially important for those practising Catholic natural family planning because of moral convictions.​

 

[psalms 91]

Yet isnt that what following cycles is all about and what they are advocating

 

[Lamb]

God's will be done regardless of any contraception or planning.