Did the Catholic Church change the sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday?

MoreCoffee

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It isn't Catholics who changed the Sabbath. The Sabbath day has never changed but its significance as a sign and a type of things to come has come to an end, as it should, because the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled it. Christ himself is our rest and his works as well as his passion, resurrection, and ascension are the works that please God so that we, who are his body, need not work to please God but may rest in the completed work of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thus keeping days is no longer a law under which we must labour but rather keeping the Lord's day is a joyous celebration in remembrance of the day on which Jesus Christ our Lord rose from the grave and brought life and immortality to light. We honour the Lord on his day not as a matter of servitude but as sons and daughters rejoicing in the joy of our Lord.

It's very simple, really, Christ has risen and our sins are forgiven. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. That's the message of the gospel in a nutshell. Of course there is more, much more, than mere forgiveness in Christ but there is definitely forgiveness in him. That is why we celebrate the Lord's day. It is the day we were objectively set free from bondage to sin.

(I can supply citations from holy scripture for the statements made above if you cannot find the bible verses for yourself)
 

psalms 91

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Yes it is simple, Gods timetable hasnt changed and Saturday is sabbeth although I dont really think it matters as long as you set aside one day a week to honor God
 

visionary

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God has a purpose in everything and anything He does plays a significant role in our lives. If He set aside a day, blessed it, sanctified it, and declared it a day of rest and His sign and seal, who are we to argue that we can do what we want and be blessed by Him for it?

I know that in the other "Sabbaths" that He set aside, they are prophetic. The feasts are seven. He likes seven. The first three were fulfilled in the spring feasts of His first coming. The second set are going to be fulfilled in conjunction with His second coming. It is like His great time clock of the universe, which He wound up and which will wind down.

It is like a key in the great lock of the mystery of the universe. As each of the chambers unlock, it comes to a point where the key will be able to turn the lock and the door will open, and we will enter into His realm.

So who cares what man says or dictates for that matter? If it isn't His, we shouldn't be interested in it.
 

Josiah

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Christians began worshipping on Sundays LONG before the RC Denomination came into existence, LONG before there were any Catholics (big "C"). It is thus absurd to claim the RC Denomination "did" this; it's simply historically impossible.
 

visionary

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It was a tradition in the west but not in the east. Political environment was not having Judaism, not even Yeshua's Judaism take over its religious realm. Persecution was rampant. Then political decrees via taxes helped push the religious leaders to compromise. Evolution of the faith continued until RCC was ruling with political sanctions.
 
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MoreCoffee

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It was a tradition in the west but not in the east. Political environment was not having Judaism, not even Yeshua's Judaism take over its religious realm. Persecution was rampant. Then political decrees via taxes helped push the religious leaders to compromise. Evolution of the faith continued until RCC was ruling with political sanctions.

Can you back up a word of the above with real history?

Wasn't it in the East that pogroms were common long after such unseemly persecution ceased in most of the West?
 
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visionary

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I though we were discussing the Sunday Sabbath issue. .. Persecution is just one of the methods.
 

MoreCoffee

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I though we were discussing the Sunday Sabbath issue. .. Persecution is just one of the methods.

I did too, but then your post offered some claims about history that are not correct.
 

visionary

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I did too, but then your post offered some claims about history that are not correct.
What was not correct? The tax or the persecution or both?
 

visionary

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Persecution...

Nero identified the Christians as being a separate entity, well distinguished from the Jews. The Emperor, in fact, according to Tacitus (ca. A.D. 55-120), "fastened the guilt [i.e. for arson upon them] and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abomination, called Christians by the populace." Tacitus, Annales 15,44.
 

visionary

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Tax ...

Nerva (A.D. 96-98) as one of the first acts of his administration "removed the shameful [extortion] of the Jewish tax," as it reads on the legend of a coin he struck to commemorate the occasion; see Dio Cassius, Historia 58, 1-2. Under Hadrian (A.D. 117-138), according to Appian, a contemporary his. torian, the Jews were subjected at that time to a "poll-tax... heavier than that imposed upon the surrounding people" (Roman History, The Syrian Wars 50, LCL, p. 199.
 

visionary

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Bruce Metzger acknowledges that the need for Christians in the West to separate from the Jews provides "a reasonable historical explanation" for "the difference between East and West in the observance of the Sabbath.... In the West, particularly after the Jewish rebellion under Hadrian, it became vitally important for those who were not Jews to avoid exposing themselves to suspicion; and the observance of the Sabbath was one of the most noticeable indications of Judaism. In the East, however, less opposition was shown to Jewish institutions" (Studies in the Lectionary Text of the Greek New Testament, 1944, II, sec. 3, p. 12).
 

MoreCoffee

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It was a tradition in the west but not in the east. Political environment was not having Judaism, not even Yeshua's Judaism take over its religious realm. Persecution was rampant. Then political decrees via taxes helped push the religious leaders to compromise. Evolution of the faith continued until RCC was ruling with political sanctions.

What was not correct? The tax or the persecution or both?

The first statement was not correct. The one where your post asserts that "It [worshipping on Sundays] was a tradition in the west but not in the east." perhaps you can explain when this was so and where and what sources say it was so?

Your post's next claim "Political environment was not having Judaism, not even Yeshua's Judaism take over its religious realm. Persecution was rampant." needs some context. When for example was this supposed to be the case and do you assert that this was so in the west but not the east?

Next your post claims "Then political decrees via taxes helped push the religious leaders to compromise." When, where, and was this too for the west but not the east?

Lastly you state "Evolution of the faith continued until RCC was ruling with political sanctions."

History points to very consistent and systematic persecution of Jews in the remnants of the Roman Empire in the east. Numerous examples in the writings of churchmen in the east speak very disparagingly of Jews and Judaism. This was so from very early times. Some say, with some justification, that that gospel according to John contains significant material that is considered anti-jewish by today's standards. That would place the anti Jewish sentiment in Ephesus (in the east) before 100 AD. So naturally I am interested in seeing what evidence you can produce to support your claims because on the face of it the claims appears to be incorrect.
 

Alithis

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It was a tradition in the west but not in the east. Political environment was not having Judaism, not even Yeshua's Judaism take over its religious realm. Persecution was rampant. Then political decrees via taxes helped push the religious leaders to compromise. Evolution of the faith continued until RCC was ruling with political sanctions.

Christians began worshipping on Sundays LONG before the RC Denomination came into existence, LONG before there were any Catholics (big "C"). It is thus absurd to claim the RC Denomination "did" this; it's simply historically impossible.

Can you back up a word of the above with real history?

Wasn't it in the East that pogroms were common long after such unseemly persecution ceased in most of the West?

you need to ask Josiah that question also
 

Alithis

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It isn't Catholics who changed the Sabbath. The Sabbath day has never changed but its significance as a sign and a type of things to come has come to an end, as it should, because the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled it. Christ himself is our rest and his works as well as his passion, resurrection, and ascension are the works that please God so that we, who are his body, need not work to please God but may rest in the completed work of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thus keeping days is no longer a law under which we must labour but rather keeping the Lord's day is a joyous celebration in remembrance of the day on which Jesus Christ our Lord rose from the grave and brought life and immortality to light. We honour the Lord on his day not as a matter of servitude but as sons and daughters rejoicing in the joy of our Lord.

It's very simple, really, Christ has risen and our sins are forgiven. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. That's the message of the gospel in a nutshell. Of course there is more, much more, than mere forgiveness in Christ but there is definitely forgiveness in him. That is why we celebrate the Lord's day. It is the day we were objectively set free from bondage to sin.

(I can supply citations from holy scripture for the statements made above if you cannot find the bible verses for yourself)


Catholicism Takes Credit for the Change( Source link provided )
Now a quote from the Catholic Press newspaper in Sidney, Australia. “Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claims to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles. From the beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.”

The Catholic Mirror of September 23, 1894, puts it this way: “The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.”

To point up the claims we’re talking about, I want to read from two Catechisms. First, from the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine by Reverend Peter Giermann. “Question: Which is the Sabbath day? Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.”

Second, from Reverend Steven Keenan’s Doctrinal Catechism we read this: “Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept? Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day; a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.”

Then from Cardinal Gibbons’ book, The Question Box, p.179, “If the Bible is the only guide for the Christian, then the Seventh-day Adventist is right in observing Saturday with the Jew. Is it not strange that those who make the Bible their only teacher should inconsistently follow in this matter the tradition of the Catholic Church?”

One more statement taken from the book, The Faith of Millions, p. 473. “But since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn’t it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not from the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistency but this change was made about fifteen centuries before Protestantism was born, and by that time the custom was universally observed. They have continued the custom even though it rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text from the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair.”

That is a most interesting statement, is it not, friends? And it is a very true statement. There is some inconsistency somewhere along the line, because we have examined the statements of history, and you can check them for yourself in any library. I’m not reading anything one-sided here at all. I’ve tried to give you an unbiased picture. Although we have seen the claims made by the Catholic Church in their publications, we are not reading them to cast any reflection upon anyone, by any means. We are simply bringing you a recital of what has been written and what claims have been made. - See more at: http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/how-the-sabbath-was-changed#sthash.cFWHNxIN.dpuf


yeah hmmmm seems your at odds with your denomination on this one-

im not sda ,but they do do some great research :)
 

MoreCoffee

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yeah hmmmm seems your at odds with your denomination on this one-

im not sda ,but they do do some great research :)

I rarely take Seventh Day Adventist claims about the Catholic Church and what she allegedly teaches very seriously because many Seventh Day Adventists believe that Ellen White wrote under the inspiration of God and thus receive her stated views as gospel truth even when her stated views are shown to be in error. I wonder why your post is so undiscerning on this matter. I wonder why you search for web sites to support Seventh Day Adventist teaching on the sabbath. It seems quite inconsistent with your stated claims about basing your doctrine on holy scripture yet here you are quoting Seventh Day Adventist sources as if they were unquestionably true.

Below is the quote from Cardinal Gibbon's book THE FAITH OF OUT FATHERS on pages 72 to 77
Third--A rule of faith, or a competent guide to heave, must be able to instruct in all the truths necessary for salvation. Now the Scriptures alone do not contain all the truths which a Christian is bound to believe, nor do they explicitly enjoin all the duties which he is obliged to practice. Not to mention other examples, is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.

The Catholic Church correctly teaches that our Lord and His Apostles inculcated certain important duties of religion which are not recorded by the inspired writers.[See John xxi. 25; II. Thess. ii. 14.] For instance, most Christians pray to the Holy Ghost, a practice which is nowhere found in the Bible.

We must, therefore, conclude that the Scriptures alone cannot be a sufficient guide and rule of faith because they cannot, at any time, be within the reach of every inquirer; because they are not of themselves clear and intelligible even in matters of the highest importance, and because they do not contain all the truths necessary for salvation.

God forbid that any of my readers should be tempted to conclude from what I have said that the Catholic Church is opposed to the reading of the Scriptures, or that she is the enemy of the Bible. The Catholic Church the enemy of the Bible! Good God! What monstrous ingratitude! What base calumny is contained in that assertion! As well might you accuse the Virgin Mother of trying to crush the Infant Savior at her breast as to accuse the Church, our Mother, of attempting to crush out of existence the Word of God. As well might you charge the patriotic statesman with attempting to destroy the constitution of his country, while he strove to protect it from being mutilated by unprincipled demagogues.

For fifteen centuries the Church was the sole guardian and depository of the Bible, and if she really feared that sacred Book, who was to prevent her, during that long period, from tearing it in shreds and scattering it to the winds? She could have thrown it into the sea, as the unnatural mother would have thrown away her offspring and who would have been the wiser?

What has become of those millions of once famous books written in past ages? They have nearly all perished. But amid this wreck of ancient literature, the Bible stands almost a solitary monument like the Pyramids of Egypt amid the surrounding wastes. That venerable Volume has survived the wars and revolutions and the barbaric invasions of fifteen centuries. Who rescued it from destruction? The Catholic Church. Without her fostering care the New Testament would probably be as little known as "the Book of the days of the kings of Israel."[III. Kings. xiv. 19.]

Little do we imagine, in our age of steam printing, how much labor it cost the Church to preserve and perpetuate the Sacred Scriptures. Learned monks, who are now abused in their graves by thoughtless men, were constantly employed in copying with the pen the Holy Bible. When one monk died at his post another took his place, watching like a faithful sentinel over the treasure of God's Word.

Let me give you a few plain facts to show the pains which the Church has taken to perpetuate the Scriptures.

The Canon of the Bible, as we have seen, was framed in the fourth century. In that same century Pope Damasus commanded a new and complete translation of the Scriptures to be made into the Latin language, which was then the living tongue not only of Rome and Italy, but of the civilized world.

If the Popes were afraid that the Bible should see the light, this was a singular way of manifesting their fear.

The task of preparing a new edition of the Scriptures was assigned to St. Jerome, the most learned Hebrew scholar of his time. This new translation was disseminated throughout Christendom, and on that account was called the Vulgate, or popular edition.

In the sixth and seventh centuries the modern languages of Europe began to spring up like so many shoots from the parent Latin stock. The Scriptures, also, soon found their way into these languages. The Venerable Bede, who lived in England in the eighth century, and whose name is profoundly reverenced in that country, translated the Sacred Scriptures into Saxon, which was then the language of England. He died while dictating the last verses of St. John's Gospel.

Thomas Arundel, Archbishop of Canterbury, in a funeral discourse on Queen Anne, consort of Richard II, pronounced in 1394, praises her for her diligence in reading the four Gospels. The Head of the Church of England could not condemn in others what he commended in the queen.

Sir Thomas More affirms that, before the days of Wycliffe, there was an English version of the Scriptures, "by good and godly people with devotion and soberness well and reverently read."[Dialog. 3, 14.]

If partial restrictions began to be placed on the circulation of the Bible in England in the fifteenth century, these restrictions were occasioned by the conduct of Wycliffe and his followers, who not only issued a new translation, on which they engrafted their novelties of doctrine, but also sought to explain the sacred text in a sense foreign to the received interpretation of tradition.

While laboring to diffuse the Word of God it is the duty, as well as the right of the Church, as the guardian of faith, to see that the faithful are not misled by unsound editions.

Printing was invented in the fifteenth century, and almost a hundred years later came the Reformation. It is often triumphantly said, and I suppose there are some who, even at the present day, are ignorant enough to believe the assertion, that the first edition of the Bible ever published after the invention of printing was the edition of Martin Luther. The fact is, that before Luther put his pen to paper, no fewer than fifty-six editions of the Scriptures had appeared on the continent of Europe, not to speak of those printed in Great Britain. Of those editions, twenty-one were published in German, one in Spanish, four in French, twenty-one in Italian, five in Flemish and four in Bohemian.

Coming down to our own times, if you open an English Catholic Bible you will find in the preface a letter of Pope Pius VI, in which he strongly recommends the pious reading of the Holy Scriptures. A Pope's letter is the most weighty authority in the Church. You will also find in Haydock's Bible the letters of the Bishops of the United States, in which they express the hope that this splendid edition would have a wide circulation among their flocks.

These facts ought, I think, to convince every candid mind that the Church, far from being opposed to the reading of the Scriptures, does all she can to encourage their perusal.

A gentleman of North Carolina lately informed me that the first time he entered a Catholic bookstore he was surprised at witnessing on the shelves an imposing array of Bibles for sale. Up to that moment he had believed the unfounded charge that Catholics were forbidden to read the Scriptures. He has since embraced the Catholic faith.

And perhaps I may be permitted here to record my personal experiences during a long course of study. I speak of myself, not because my case is exceptional, but, on the contrary, because my example will serve to illustrate the system pursued toward ecclesiastical students in all colleges throughout the Catholic world in reference to the Holy Scriptures.

In our course of Humanities we listened every day to the reading of the Bible. When we were advanced to the higher branches of Philosophy and Theology the study of the Sacred Scriptures formed an important part of our education. We read, besides, every day a chapter of the New Testament, not standing or sitting, but on our knees, and then reverently kissed the inspired page. We listened at our meals each day to selections from the Bible, and we always carried about with us a copy of the New Testament.

So familiar, indeed, were the students with the sacred Volume that many of them, on listening to a few verses, could tell from what portion of the Scriptures you were reading. The only dread we were taught to have of the Scriptures was that of reading them without fear and reverence.

And after his ordination every Priest is obliged in conscience to devote upwards of an hour each day to the perusal of the Word of God. I am not aware that clergymen of other denominations are bound by the same duty.

What is good for the clergy must be good, also, for the laity. Be assured that if you become a Catholic you will never be forbidden to read the Bible. It is our earnest wish that every word of the Gospel may be imprinted on your memory and on your heart.
 
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Alithis

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I rarely take Seventh Day Adventist claims about the Catholic Church and what she allegedly teaches very seriously because many Seventh Day Adventists believe that Ellen White wrote under the inspiration of God and thus receive her stated views as gospel truth even when her stated views are shown to be in error. I wonder why your post is so undiscerning on this matter. I wonder why you search for web sites to support Seventh Day Adventist teaching on the sabbath. It seems quite inconsistent with your stated claims about basing your doctrine on holy scripture yet here you are quoting Seventh Day Adventist sources as if they were unquestionably true.

Below is the quote from Cardinal Gibbon's book THE FAITH OF OUT FATHERS on pages 72 to 77

they are not claiming they are quoting . hmm

and all your counter quote does is show that they constantly disagree with themselves as the centuries go by .if they stuck to the truth in the first placed .they would have no need to
 

MoreCoffee

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they are not claiming they are quoting . hmm

and all your counter quote does is show that they constantly disagree with themselves as the centuries go by .if they stuck to the truth in the first placed .they would have no need to

The point of quoting Cardinal Gibbons is to show that SDA claims are not entirely trustworthy. That being done there's little left to say about the spurious claims from the web site that you quoted as an authority on Catholic teaching.
 
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visionary

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As long as it is understood that it wasn't God who made the changes, it doesn't matter what man says.
 

MoreCoffee

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As long as it is understood that it wasn't God who made the changes, it doesn't matter what man says.

It is God who made the change through his church.
 
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