Why was Mary necessary?

[TurtleHare]

So is that a YES that you believe Jesus is God? It's not like you come out and say anything clearly ya know.

Jesus is God.

Mary gave birth to Him and is His mother.

Mary is the the mother of God.

So simple. Why make a fuss as you do?

I believe Everything the scripture declares and everything the lord Jesus said of himself and everything the father declared of him .
Jesus is the manifestation of God in the flesh .

I am not compelled to believe a thing the scripture Never states.. God by his spirit NEVER refers to mary as mother of God.. he camnot. It denies his very existance as the etrnal God to do so..he cannot deny his own word.

All thread topics morph .and i have kept summerising it back to the op question.

 

[psalms 91]

Yet Jesus prayed to God the Father and yet the Holy Spirit came dopwn on Him. Yes He is part of the trinity and yes He was God but when He was on earth He was man and had to operate within the confines of man in order to defeat satan and take back what was stolen from us with Adam. You also ignore that it is only through Him that any can reach the Father. You want to pray to Mary or ask a departed being to pray for you go ahead but it is useless

 

[Lamb]

Jesus 100% God and 100% man at the same time. There is no splitting him.

 

[Josiah]

You also ignore that it is only through Him that any can reach the Father. You want to pray to Mary or ask a departed being to pray for you go ahead but it is useless

Bill,

IMO, it would be very helpful when you post to identify to whom you speaking; who the "you" is in your posts. Just a well-meaning suggestion



- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

Jesus 100% God and 100% man at the same time. There is no splitting him.

... which is why it is good to refer to Jesus as "God", as Scripture does (John 20:28, etc.).

 

[Alithis]

Jesus 100% God and 100% man at the same time. There is no splitting him.

Sure and mary is the mother of the 100% MAN. NOT the 100% God . the man became flesh at a point in time ... But God Has no beginning.

Thanks for clarifying that mary is not he mother of God, nor can be .

.

 

[Lamb]

Sure and mary is the mother of the 100% MAN. NOT the 100% God . the man became flesh at a point in time ... But God Has no beginning.

Thanks for clarifying that mary is not he mother of God, nor can be .

.

The Nicene Creed called Jesus 100% God and 100% man...so you don't sound like a triune Christian? Jesus didn't stop being God while he is still 100% man. That's why Mary is the mother of God. You sound more like you believe in the false theology of modalism.

 

[psalms 91]

Apparently some dont understqand that Jresus gave up being God and came to earth as man and had to receive the Holy Spirit and ask God just as man has to. There is no contradiction., just people not understanding how Jesus operated on earth

 

[Josiah]

Sure and mary is the mother of the 100% MAN. NOT the 100% God . the man became flesh at a point in time ... But God Has no beginning.

Thanks for clarifying that mary is not he mother of God, nor can be .

.

1. Then Thomas lied in John 20:28. And Jesus was remiss in not correcting Him.

2. Actually, Jesus is FULLY God and FULLY man: 100% God, 100% man. The FULLNESS of God dwells with Him, the Bible proclaims. He's not PARTLY a man and PARTLY God (that's a heresy).


The Marian title affirms two things:
+ Mary bore Jesus (Luke 2:1-7)
+ Jesus may be called specifically "GOD" (John 20:28)
Which is a lie? Or do you deny both points?





.

 

[George]

Apparently some dont understqand that Jresus gave up being God and came to earth as man and had to receive the Holy Spirit and ask God just as man has to. There is no contradiction., just people not understanding how Jesus operated on earth

Wait what?

 

[Lamb]

Apparently some dont understqand that Jresus gave up being God and came to earth as man and had to receive the Holy Spirit and ask God just as man has to. There is no contradiction., just people not understanding how Jesus operated on earth

I'm surprised you believe that. Jesus was not JUST man but also retained His divine nature. He is both 100% man and 100% God at the same time. That's what the bible tells us about His divinity in Colossians 1:15-20 and John 1:1-3. Do you really think God can stop being God?

 

[Josiah]

Apparently some dont understqand that Jresus gave up being God and came to earth as man

.


I respectfully disagree. So does the Bible, the Ecumenical Creeds, the Ecumenical Councils, and nearly all denominations.

Bill, friend, please look up Arianism. One of the worst and most condemned heresies in the 2000 years of Christianity - rejected repeatedly by the Councils, throughout the history of Christianity, and by every denomination known to me.



.

 

[Josiah]

Several here need to look up Nestorianism - one of the worse, most condemned heresies in the history of Christianity. Look it up.

Also Arianism. Perhaps an even worse, more ecumenically condemned heresy.

I'm SURE proclaiming aspects of these universally condemned heresies is innocent, but I hope and pray all will accept the correction.



Again, the Marian titles of "Matre Dei" (Mother of God) and "Theotokos" (God Bearer) affirm two and only two things:
+ Mary bore Jesus (see Luke 2:1-7, etc.)
+ Jesus may rightly be called God (See John 20:28, etc)
To deny the title mandates denying one or both of the things the title affirms.




Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

 

[TurtleHare]

I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread and it's no wonder that people might not believe that Mary isn't the mother of God if they don't even believe Jesus is God! Wow, so just wow on that and I'm glad that it's finally out in the open because this is a really huge thing since this is a Christian message board and we're here to proclaim Christ (who is God and not just man) in all his holiness.

 

[Lamb]

Several here need to look up Nestorianism - one of the worse, most condemned heresies in the history of Christianity. Look it up.

Also Arianism. Perhaps an even worse, more ecumenically condemned heresy.

I'm SURE proclaiming aspects of these universally condemned heresies is innocent, but I hope and pray all will accept the correction.



Again, the Marian titles of "Matre Dei" (Mother of God) and "Theotokos" (God Bearer) affirm two and only two things:
+ Mary bore Jesus (see Luke 2:1-7, etc.)
+ Jesus may rightly be called God (See John 20:28, etc)
To deny the title mandates denying one or both of the things the title affirms.




Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

Thank you for posting those. I forget the known heresy names. My pastor once said that there aren't new heresies but the same ones recycled.

 

[psalms 91]

I'm surprised you believe that. Jesus was not JUST man but also retained His divine nature. He is both 100% man and 100% God at the same time. That's what the bible tells us about His divinity in Colossians 1:15-20 and John 1:1-3. Do you really think God can stop being God?

If so how can He claim to know our infirmaties and defeat sin and satan as a man? You see He had to be nman in order to show us it can be done and how we are to be on earth. satan could have cried foul if He was di\evine. Of course He is God but not while on earth. As God He could not have died

 

[psalms 91]

I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread and it's no wonder that people might not believe that Mary isn't the mother of God if they don't even believe Jesus is God! Wow, so just wow on that and I'm glad that it's finally out in the open because this is a really huge thing since this is a Christian message board and we're here to proclaim Christ (who is God and not just man) in all his holiness.

Thatis a twist I think we all believe that Jesus was and is God what the question is is did He show us how man can walk sinless or did He cheat and was God when He did all this? I think you know the answer

 

[Josiah]

Thatis a twist I think we all believe that Jesus was and is God what the question is is did He show us how man can walk sinless or did He cheat and was God when He did all this? I think you know the answer

Friend..... respectfully.... please.....

Check this out: http://www.gotquestions.org/divinity-of-Christ.html

Review Arianism and Nestorianism (CARM has some very, very short intros..... of course, there's wikipedia, too) Please review these unversally condemned, uber-dangerious heresies.

No, Jesus (as God/Man) did not "teach us" how God or man may walk sinless. God IS sinless.... and thus the God/Man is sinless.... it is an attribute of divinity; His sinlessness is an aspect of "the communication of attributes" (as it's called in theology). This is Council of Chalcadon stuff (and YES, that Council does address the very issue being denied by a few here). His two natures are FULL (100% each) and INSEPARABLE (although unblended and distinct). And yes, His divinity "communicates" with His humanity (thus His sinlessness, His miracles, His resurrection - and yes, why He is our Savior). As you read up on Arianism and Nestorianism - two of the oldest and worst and most condemned heresies in the history of Christianity - you'll be reminded of why this affirmation of the two natures of Christ is so critical to the very core, the very foundation of Christianity.

Yes, DURING the "State of Humilitation" (as it's called in classic theology) - that period between His Incarnation and Resurrection - Jesus "laid aside" (at times) the USE or APPLICATION of His divinity (thus, 10 thousand angels did not come to rescue Him on the Cross) but He did not lay aside His divinity (even Arianism and Nestorianism see that as impossible!) - Jesus is ALWAYS fully God, fully man. Inseparably (as the Council of Chalcadon so boldly stated - as every Christian denomination known to me accepts).

If so how can He claim to know our infirmaties and defeat sin and satan as a man?

Because He is BOTH - 100% God and 100% man - INSEPARABLY. And of course, no man ALONE could defeat sin and satan.... or rise from the dead. Thus a denial of the TWO inseparable, full natures of Christ (as we see in Arianism and Nestorianism) defeats the very heart and core of Christianity: that Jesus is our Savior. That's why some here are so disturbed by the Arianism and Nestorianism being presented, this denial of Jesus as BOTH, FULLY, ALWAYS God and man, divine and human. check out the things above.



Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah




.

 

[MoreCoffee]

... (thus His sinfulness, His miracles, His resurrection - and yes, why He is our Savior) ...

I think there's a typo in the above. sinlessness is what was intended, I believe.

 

[Josiah]

I think there's a typo in the above. sinlessness is what was intended, I believe.

Obviously, yes.