Why Christ said we have to go Beyond the Law

[Frankj]

Jesus did not teach that we add works for salvation. The Law tells us we have to do things for our salvation...but we cannot do them perfectly because of sin. That's why Jesus had to die on the cross. The Gospel tells us that Jesus alone saves us.

Baptism isn't a work we do. It's connected to the cross where God brings to us by water and word the benefits from there.

At least you are recognizing that our works are tied to our salvation now, which is what I have contended all along. Baptism alone does not bring salvation, and sometimes Baptism alone does not bring the Holy Spirit as is shown in Acts 8:14–17.

God does not do everything for us, we have to do our part as well for the completeness of our salvation.

 

[Lamb]

At least you are recognizing that our works are tied to our salvation now, which is what I have contended all along. Baptism alone does not bring salvation, and sometimes Baptism alone does not bring the Holy Spirit as is shown in Acts 8:14–17.

God does not do everything for us, we have to do our part as well for the completeness of our salvation.

Our works do NOT contribute to salvation. They flow from us because the Holy Spirit is doing the works He intends for us to do, but they are not a reason we have salvation, but because we have salvation.

Baptism is God's work. It's what HE does, not us. He wants to give the promises of the cross to everyone through the waters of baptism. That's not works by us.

So you say you have a part to do...how much do you have to do to satisfy the Lord?

 

[Frankj]

So you say you have a part to do...how much do you have to do to satisfy the Lord?

You will find your answer in the words of Jesus as recorded in the Bible, that red letter part.

We are not in agreement on this and I doubt we will become such so, there is really no point in discussing it further for now, consider the reason for closed communion as Lutherans practice, or at least used to if it has changed, and you will understand why I say this.

 

[Lamb]

You will find your answer in the words of Jesus as recorded in the Bible, that red letter part.

We are not in agreement on this and I doubt we will become such so, there is really no point in discussing it further for now, consider the reason for closed communion as Lutherans practice, or at least used to if it has changed, and you will understand why I say this.

Jesus is God and He speaks to us by His word which is the entirety of scriptures. You can't pick and choose what you want God to say.

Close Communion has nothing to do with this topic.

 

[Frankj]

It's Jesus words that I am talking about.

Closed communion is intended to keep only people of like belief from participating, single minded as such.

Because when single mindedness does not exist within the Church, it has little or no power other than ordinary social movements do.

I don't see why people find this so hard to understand.

 

[Lamb]

It's Jesus words that I am talking about.

Closed communion is intended to keep only people of like belief from participating, single minded as such.

Because when single mindedness does not exist within the Church, it has little or no power other than ordinary social movements do.

I don't see why people find this so hard to understand.

Jesus words...how are they so different from what God says throughout the entire bible? You seem to deny that the entire bible is authored by the Holy Spirit. That's a problem.

 

[Frankj]

Jesus words...how are they so different from what God says throughout the entire bible? You seem to deny that the entire bible is authored by the Holy Spirit. That's a problem.

It was authored through men who spoke different languages than the ones that we speak now and in the later days, the days of the Christ, written in a different language than they were originally spoken in. Then further revised in later days to include, alter or exclude parts of it to satisfy the desires of those doing the inclusion, alteration and exclusions.

But the question remains, do you believe the direct words Jesus spoke or not?

 

[Lamb]

It was authored through men who spoke different languages than the ones that we speak now and in the later days, the days of the Christ, written in a different language than they were originally spoken in. Then further revised in later days to include, alter or exclude parts of it to satisfy the desires of those doing the inclusion, alteration and exclusions.

But the question remains, do you believe the direct words Jesus spoke or not?

If you don't believe that the Holy Spirit inspired those who wrote it, then how would you believe that Jesus' words were accurate?

Jesus didn't contradict what the rest of the bible says. HE is the way.

 

[Frankj]

You seem to be drifting from the original subject of whether baptism alone is sufficient or whether we also have to do something along with it as Jesus taught us to do.

I believe the Holy Spirit directed the original writings, but I also know that man has altered them to suit his purposes since.

If this was not so then all Bibles would say the same thing in the same way without real or implied variations in their meanings, one would be as good as another.