Dont buy the LGBTQ mainstream lie :)

[MoreCoffee]

That's an awful lot of words to avoid answering the question of do you form your views from the Bible ahead of everything else.

Unless you're trying to say something to the effect of "No, I use Catholic tradition and opinion instead".

At least that is how I understand your answer, you can correct me If you meant it to be understood differently.

I can see from your reply that you are not ready to discuss this matter without projecting erroneous views onto me.

 

[Frankj]

I am wondering if you read what is in my replies.

I read every word of every reply. What I am understanding is what you are communicating to me according to the way it is worded and my understanding of the use of language.

Maybe you could try a simpler and more direct wording for an answer if you want me to understand it differently?

 

[Frankj]

I can see from your reply that you are not ready to discuss this matter without projecting erroneous views onto me.

Well, in that case maybe we should leave it at this, I feel I have done my duty as the Lord moved me in saying what I have said, the rest is up to you.

May your day go well and God work his will in your life.

 

[Edward429451]

I have read it. Now tell me where what you claim is written.

There is no verse in the Bible—or in most major religious scriptures—that explicitly uses the modern term “transgender” or directly condemns transgender people. Interpretations vary widely depending on religious tradition, denomination, and individual belief.

Some people point to verses about gender roles or creation, such as Genesis 1:27 (“male and female he created them”), to argue for a binary view of gender. Others cite Deuteronomy 22:5, which says, “A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak,” as a reference to cross-dressing. However, many theologians and scholars caution against applying ancient cultural norms to modern understandings of gender identity.

On the other hand, many verses emphasize love, dignity, and the inherent worth of every person. For example:

• “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28
• “Love your neighbor as yourself.” — Mark 12:31
• “I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made.” — Psalm 139:14

Yes there is. How about something from the new testament?

Romans 1:25-27
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet..../KJV

The term transgender wasn't being used back then. They just called them sodomites. Now if the Shakespearian language of the KJV isn't clear enough for you, then let's look at the same passage from a more modern translation of the Bible.

Romans 1:25-27
25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.
26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.
27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved..../NLT

So this passage does cover Transgenders also. If a (so-called) trans woman starts thinking that she is a man then she goes out and has sex with other women.
Trans men who pretend that they are women do go and have sex with other men.

Transformers are not in some special category of ok with God! There, you have your verse that you asked for now!

 

[MoreCoffee]

according to the way it is worded and my understanding of the use of language.

You could look up the words I use, there are many online sources for accurate definitions, and if you think I have a Catholic slant then you can check Catholic sources for definitions and see for yourself.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The term transgender wasn't being used back then. They just called them sodomites.

Do you know what transgender means?

In Catholic teaching, the term transgender is not defined in the same way as it might be in secular or psychological contexts. Instead, the Church approaches the topic through its theological understanding of the human person.

According to Catholic doctrine, each person is created by God as either male or female, and this biological sex is considered an essential part of one’s identity. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

“Everyone, man and woman, should acknowledge and accept his sexual identity” (CCC 2333).

The Church does not recognize a change in gender identity that contradicts one’s biological sex. It views attempts to alter or reject one’s biological sex—such as through surgery or hormone therapy—as inconsistent with the truth of the human person as created by God.

That said, the Church also emphasises the dignity of every human being, including those who experience gender dysphoria or identify as transgender. Catholics are called to treat all people with compassion, respect, and sensitivity, even while upholding Church teachings on human sexuality.

 

[Edward429451]

Do you know what transgender means?

Sure I do, it means Sodomites. The Gay people. But then one teenager in a locker room with the guys made a very poor joke one time, and said, hey what if I said I was girl and I identify as one, and start wearing lipstick, then they'd have to let me into the girls locker room! Now that particular gay boy really seen that he wanted to be gay, but he didn't like it that they have not been accepted, and he also had heard that saying he was born that way works on some people, so he said that too. But at the end of the day, he was just a gay kid, and it invited the evil spirits in and the next thing you know, a zilions Transformers are running around crying about we're not gay, we're transformers! Love us and accept us!

Being gay is an abomination to God, and an insult to the women that He created. Their just, modern day Sodomites with a new twist to being gay.

They can take up the street with them.

In Catholic teaching, the term transgender is not defined in the same way as it might be in secular or psychological contexts. Instead, the Church approaches the topic through its theological understanding of the human person.

SO? I'm not Catholic.

According to Catholic doctrine, each person is created by God as either male or female, and this biological sex is considered an essential part of one’s identity.

I agree with this part. ANNND! God made it wonderfully easy to be able to tell if someone is actually a man or a woman. All you have to do is lift the tail of the puppy and look at which type pf plumbing they have. Simple enough.

The Church does not recognize a change in gender identity that contradicts one’s biological sex. It views attempts to alter or reject one’s biological sex—such as through surgery or hormone therapy—as inconsistent with the truth of the human person as created by God.

Good. In fact when a person dies and the body deteriorates and all that is left is bones now, any bone in that skeleton will tell you what the person was at birth (before they learned how to lie) so a trans gay person could have died 1000 years ago and a quick look at the bones, yep, this was a man (or whatever).

That said, the Church also emphasises the dignity of every human being, including those who experience gender dysphoria or identify as transgender. Catholics are called to treat all people with compassion, respect, and sensitivity, even while upholding Church teachings on human sexuality.

Oh, don't try to word salad me and confuse the issue. Gay people have no dignity already when they turned gay. Be compassionate to them? Love them as a Christian? Accept them? Ha! That wouldn't be having compassion on them or loving them.

I love gay people. They are victims and are oppressed by evil demons. How do you love a gay person without accepting them as gay and ok? Easy, you love them by being strong enough to speak the truth to them and say, Watch out Brother, it's a Trap!

If they are seeking the Lord and deliverance from being gay and are repentant of it, I would welcome them in and speak with them. If they want to remain gay and feel accepted, no they can't use my cell phone, can't step in for a cup of water...they can leave, right now.

Truth. Give them dignity?! Lol. Why are you sticking up for gay people? Are you gay?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why are you sticking up for gay people?

Because Jesus does.

 

[Edward429451]

Because Jesus does.

He does? I didn't know that, brother. Is that in the Beatitudes? (Sermon on the Mount)...Or, what is the scripture for it, I'd like to read it.

 

[Edward429451]

Because Jesus does.

I don't mean to put you on the spot brother by asking for the scripture for what you say, but we know very well don't we, that the sciptures are from the book of truth. We use them sort of like a judge to us, right?

Ok so we disagreed at least at first so what do we do? We must see what the scriptures say about it and that wll decide, will it not?

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires..../NLT

So, yes. I need a scripture for what you said! That will settle it quickly!

 

[MoreCoffee]

I don't mean to put you on the spot brother by asking for the scripture for what you say, but we know very well don't we, that the sciptures are from the book of truth. We use them sort of like a judge to us, right?

No.

Ok so we disagreed at least at first so what do we do? We must see what the scriptures say about it and that wll decide, will it not?

Oversimplified and lacks credibility, your views of what scripture says and means differ from what the text of scripture says and means.

12 For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires..../NLT

Inaccurate translation.

For the word of God is living and effectual and more piercing than any two edged sword; and reaching unto the division of the soul and the spirit, of the joints also and the marrow: and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature invisible in his sight: but all things are naked and open to his eyes, to whom our speech is. ​

Hebrews 4:12-13 DRB
The Levites made use of a two-edged knife to separate from the victim what was for God, what was for the priests, and what was for the people. Thus in sacrificing sinners to the justice of God, Jesus Christ, like a two-edged knife, will separate what is for God, and what is for man; i.e. whatever is good or evil in the whole of man’s conduct.

This passage is about Jesus. It is not a statement about bibles.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Every bit of that is in scripture too Brother. But you know that because you said it, lol. But that's exactly what it says, we are to share our witness and our testimony.

I have a crapload of personal testimonies that I could share of the Lord blessing me and doing supernatural things for me and all sorts of stuff. But they don't have a forum for testimonies here, they don't like testimonies for some reason?

One time the Lord sent an Angel to my garage sale, and the Angel looked like a man so I didn't know it, and he brought everything I had prayed to the Lord for and more! (Nobody goes to garage sale and spends $2400.!!)

Another time, there was 3 teams of police in cars searching for me to arrest me (long story!) and it would not have been just to arrest me because I hadnt did anything wrong. And I took of walking and praying, and the Holy Spirit started talking to me inside of me! Turn right here, go left up the alley, now left again, sit here and rest, ok get up go straight then right...and it was like Holy Spirit turned up the volume inside me because I heard him good and obeyed everything! And I stayed out of jail, and I never went more than 6 blocks from my house and 3 cars couldnt find me!

And quite a few more too. The Lord is an adventure. He will put you into situations that you don't want to be in, lol. I've passed a few and failed some.

My favorite testimony is, not when God parted the red sea for me (He didn't) but a very small personal thing. I almost prayed about it but then I did not pray about it...and He did it anyway! This testimony is actually a two part testimony, there were two things the good Lord did for me. One I asked for and one I didn't!

I wonder if they would get mad if I started a Testimony Thread?

I love hearing testimonies. These are real, from regular people. Not Moses, not Paul or Peter. Just normal people like us. Me? I'm nothing special. A nobody in fact even to TV Pastors. I'm only some retired plumber/heater/a-c guy and have no ministry. So why would God do those sorts of things for me? He loves me! He loves all you Brothers & Sisters too.

Amen, @Edward429451!!

 

[Edward429451]

No.

Ok, so now we have established that, you haven't read much in the Bible for yourself, because reading the Bible is like looking into a mirror. That's why it's good to read it every day, morning time is best, when you're fresh and you can take a look at the state of your soul within the pages of your Bible.

Oversimplified and lacks credibility, your views of what scripture says and means differ from what the text of scripture says and means.

Lacks credibility? Ok, so now we have established that you don't even believe what is written in the word of God. Perhaps you don't really know how to read the word of God properly?

Is the Catholic Bible all that different from the Christians Bible? Is Jesus in your Bible? Who is Jesus to you? Just trying to understand where you're coming from.

 

[Edward429451]

This passage is about Jesus. It is not a statement about bibles.

Do you realize how powerful Jesus's words are? He said, let there be light. And it happened. Now when a (GOD) guy like that speaks...after he has spoken...does His words dissipate into the air and stop having an effect?

Jesus has been called the Living Word. He is God, Brother! His words will live on after He has spoken them because, these are God's words! And so don't you think that His words that He spoke 66 books or more to around 40 men who were instructed to write these words down. All of that was done over a period of 1500 to 2000 years? No sir, brother. When those words, in that book are spoken (read) it is able to determine your thoughts and the intent(s) of your heart. That's what this means.

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart..../KJV

Don't you think that God is powerful enough to get a real truthful Bible of His Words into your hands over the centuries? Is God able to do that?

You know He is.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Why do you worry so much about LGBTIQ+ people? Is this politics? It isn't religion, God says very little about Gay people and almost nothing about Lesbians, and as far as I know absolutely nothing about transgendered people.

My bible has 73 books in it and was formed as a canonical source of authority in the fourth century AD, and dogmatically defined as 73 books in the fifteenth century and again in the seventeenth century. It formed my Church's theology but was not alone in doing so. Church tradition as presented in the early Church Fathers and in Church practises played and continue to play a fundamental role in forming theology. There is also the living presence of the Holy Spirit and in her people as well as her bishops playing a role of continuous theological formation that is called by some "the development of doctrine" which means that doctrine develops as the need to express it more and more clearly draws it into greater clarity as new issues arise. This is the Catholic way of approaching holy scripture and doctrine. It is my way of approaching doctrine.

That's the main source of my difference with the Catholics: your admission that it's the Bible plus tradition that forms your theology in your own words: "Church tradition as presented in the early Church Fathers and in Church practises played and continue to play a fundamental role in forming theology."

Where in the Bible does God give you permission to add any tradition to the Bible to form your theology?

Tradition and all other matters must be measured against the Scriptures, which is the major objection that the Protestants had concerning your church.

However, to answer your statement about the sexual immorality in our world and what the Bible says about it, I say that the Old and New Testaments both command us to keep sex within marriage. Therefore, it is religion about immoral lifestyles, not politics:

Exo 20:14 “You shall not commit adultery.

1Co 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ok, so now we have established that, you haven't read much in the Bible for yourself

No.
I've read the bible from cover to cover many times.

 

[MoreCoffee]

your admission that it's the Bible plus tradition that forms your theology

No. It is holy Tradition, which includes the Holy Bible, and the Holy Spirit that forms my theology. I'm not a protestant. I haven't followed man-made traditions like "sola scriptura" and the other doctrines of the "reformers" such as Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Thomas Cranmer.

 

[Edward429451]

No.
I've read the bible from cover to cover many times.

Ok then you should be able to provide the scripture that substantiates your claim that, Jesus supports gays. I've looked for such a scripture and can't find any, so help a Brother out, or No?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ok then you should be able to provide the scripture that substantiates your claim that, Jesus supports gays. I've looked for such a scripture and can't find any, so help a Brother out, or No?

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Matthew 11:28-30 RV

It really is not hard to remember that Jesus came to save sinners.

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is begotten of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No man hath beheld God at any time: if we love one another, God abideth in us, and his love is perfected in us: hereby know we that we abide in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father hath sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God abideth in him, and he in God. And we know and have believed the love which God hath in us. God is love; and he that abideth in love abideth in God, and God abideth in him. Herein is love made perfect with us, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as he is, even so are we in this world. There is no fear in love: but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear hath punishment; and he that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, cannot love God whom he hath not seen. And this commandment have we from him, that he who loveth God love his brother also.
1 John 4:7-21 RV

Christians are called to love as God loves.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:16 RV

The good news is that God loves humanity and sent Jesus into the world to redeem human beings.

I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men; for kings and all that are in high place; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who willeth that all men should be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:1-4 RV

 

[Edward429451]

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Matthew 11:28-30 RV

It really is not hard to remember that Jesus came to save sinners.

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is begotten of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No man hath beheld God at any time: if we love one another, God abideth in us, and his love is perfected in us: hereby know we that we abide in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father hath sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God abideth in him, and he in God. And we know and have believed the love which God hath in us. God is love; and he that abideth in love abideth in God, and God abideth in him. Herein is love made perfect with us, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as he is, even so are we in this world. There is no fear in love: but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear hath punishment; and he that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, cannot love God whom he hath not seen. And this commandment have we from him, that he who loveth God love his brother also.
1 John 4:7-21 RV

Christians are called to love as God loves.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:16 RV

The good news is that God loves humanity and sent Jesus into the world to redeem human beings.

I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men; for kings and all that are in high place; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who willeth that all men should be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:1-4 RV

I have to admit, that's quite a bit of great scriptures there, brother. It's too bad that none of those scriptures support your view. Nowhere do those scriptures say anything about homosexuals. What connects those scriptures to homo's?

Do the gays not have to repent and turn from their sins?

It was an admirable try brother, but it seems that you have fallen short in your thinking and reading. WIll you try again?

Yesterday, I looked up every scripture in the Bible which speaks about sexual immorality, Let me know if you want to read them and I'll post every one for you.

Yes they are sinners and so God loved them also and did for them. But it is not saying, but I Love God that saves a person. It is repenting from our sins and turning away from them and not continuing the lifestyle of those sins.

Besides, what makes you think that by accepting the gays, that I would be walking in love towards them? Would I not have to lie to them or at least restrain myself from speaking the truth to them? So wherein is this love that you speak of that I should have for them in restraining myself from the truth?

No brother. I will walk in love towards my fellow men and women of the earth, and in this love I will not lie to them. Speaking truth is love. If I restrained myself from speaking the truth then I would be coming into agreement with the spirit of sexual immorality which is behind their being gay.

I have to bust your bubble. There isnt going to be any gays in heaven. Gyas will be tossed into the lake of fire.

Situational:

You're walking down the street and are passing a school. And you look at the kids playing outside at school, and you see a child playing with what looks like a real gun. What would you do?

If you go up in the schoolyard and start yelling at the kid to stop it and put it down because it is dangerous, then you may be seen as a mean man and who knows? Perhaps even a threat to the child! That might be the childs gun, or his dad's. Not your business! MYOB!

So if you myob and keep walking, then you have not loved or respected the child. You have accepted that he has a gun and you keep walking. Is that love?
You kept walking to"respect" that child, and you get another 1/2 block down the road and then you hear several gun shots. A child has died...

What was the bigger wrong? Instructing the child that it is dangerous and he could hurt somebody in a firm voice, because, this isnt TV. This is real. OR...walking away without a warning to them and after you said nothing, the child died? It's pretty obvious, isnt it?

I think your heart is in the right place, love people. But you have not pondered the consequences enough so you havent thought it out very well.

I heard a certain Pastors message one time, it was about Sodom & Gomorrah that God destroyed. He said that God did not destroy S&G because most of the people were gay. Those are simply sinners and we all are sinners, so big deal, right? So why the need to destroy them?

Easy he said. Because all of non gays accepted the gays as neighbors and citizens and did not speak out to them that ther is a danger in their lifestyle. There wasnt even 5 people in those towns that did not accept the gays, and would speak truth to them, (Remeber the deal God made? If there be 50 righteous, spare it Lord? 45? 35? 10? 5??!!
Not even 5, so God destroyed the righteous in those cities along with the sinners, because they threw in with them and accepted them. That's why S&G got destroyed. Because of the acceptance by the righteous people of those cities.
Just be nice to us and love us, the gays said and is what you are saying to me.

You need to think this through some more!

After the paramedics left the school with the dead child, you went home and your mom was there. WHat's wrong? She said.
A child was with a gun was killed. I seen him with the gun before he shot himself.
WHy didn't you take the gun away from the kid?
I was minding my own business and showing the child love and respect, giving him his space......
BANG.

How could you be so thoughtless friend? Warning the child is an act of love

But we can sure trade scriptures' some more if you want. I have a list here for you! I sure would like to see that scripture that the brother who has read the entire bible cover to cover countless times (!!!!) has so you can show me the light about where, if, and why, I am wrong.

Gays can be outcasts, or...I could be an outcast with them! Uhh, no thanks. I've only read the bible cover to cover 5 or 6 times now and sure feel like I have a good handle on tis subject. But I've been wrong before. Can you show me?