Mark 13:10

BruceLeiter

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That's a very good question. I could find no evidence supporting Matthew as the author, but I found a lot of evidence in the Gospels supporting Nicodemus to be. In fact, as an expert fraud investigator, I have zero doubts that the Gospel of Matthew was written by Nicodemus and not Matthew. Why would they misname the author Matthew rather than Nicodemus? It was intentional to support false teachers. Prophecy predicted the fraud and supports the following analytical results.

It's well accepted that Matthew's author copied from Mark's author. The accounts of Peter walking on water and Jesus assigning Peter to lead the Church-are the foundation of the Catholic Church. These two events are described in Mark and Matthew, but only Matthew contains the additional Peter promoting descriptions. The rest of the event descriptions for those two events were copied from Mark, proving that the Peter promoting documentation was added to the account in Mark.

If Peter walking on water and Jesus assigning Peter to lead the Church are to be believed they had to be witnessed by a disciple. Nicodemus was a secret disciple who went to Jesus in the dark. The false teachers needed a disciple who was present with Jesus that could verify the additions to those two events providing the foundation of the Catholic Church through Peter. They got rid of Nicodemus and renamed the Gospel for Matthew. As additional proof, the account of the tax collector in Matthew was also copied from the Gospel of Mark. In fact, Mark's author knew the tax collector because he provided eyewitness details that were left off the account in Matthew.

False teachers changed the name of the tax collector from Levi to Matthew then attributed that Gospel to Matthew who was with Jesus and could have witnessed the edits. Problem is that Matthew was also an unlikely choice because there is zero documentation of Matthew interacting with Jesus. But they got away with the fraud. For years Protestants and Catholics have been debating what Jesus meant when he said those words. Why didn't anyone do an analysis previously and put the debate to bed? I can't answer that question.
But are those two events "Peter-promoting" at all? His profession, Jesus' approval, and the "Peter-demoting" event that follows are also in Matthew:

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Mat 16:20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.
Mat 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.
Mat 16:22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.”
Mat 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”

"This rock" could just as well be his profession, not him as an individual, especially since Jesus balled him out just afterwards as an agent of Satan for rebuking him.

In the storm, he walked on the water only briefly until his lack (or weak) faith made him sink. Now, if he had started dancing on the water, maybe the Catholics have a point. But Peter only appears to be the disciples' spokesman.

Document the false teachers' actions that you claim they made to the manuscripts.
 

BruceLeiter

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Like I said, if your interested you will find the directions on how to prove Nicodemus wrote the Gospel of Matthew in my posting. If you search for it and can't find it I will repost it for you.

You gave no evidence of Matthew. A few vague words that counter many scholars.
What other scholars say that Nicodemus wrote the Gospel of Matthew, JustTheFacts?
 

JustTheFacts

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But are those two events "Peter-promoting" at all? His profession, Jesus' approval, and the "Peter-demoting" event that follows are also in Matthew:

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Mat 16:20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.
Mat 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.
Mat 16:22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.”
Mat 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”

"This rock" could just as well be his profession, not him as an individual, especially since Jesus balled him out just afterwards as an agent of Satan for rebuking him.

In the storm, he walked on the water only briefly until his lack (or weak) faith made him sink. Now, if he had started dancing on the water, maybe the Catholics have a point. But Peter only appears to be the disciples' spokesman.

Document the false teachers' actions that you claim they made to the manuscripts.
 

Stephen

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Like I said, if your interested you will find the directions on how to prove Nicodemus wrote the Gospel of Matthew in my posting. If you search for it and can't find it I will repost it for you.
Go on then.
Show me this evidence.
 

JustTheFacts

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But are those two events "Peter-promoting" at all? His profession, Jesus' approval, and the "Peter-demoting" event that follows are also in Matthew:
I haven't been through all of Peter's mentions in Matthew and I don't expect all of them to be "Peter-promoting," but I went through several events and found a pattern. Nicodemus copied from the Gospel of Mark. All events will either have proof of copying or not. Those that do if they have additional information, regardless of whether they are "Peter-promoting" or not, need the additional information carefully scrutinized to find out why.

The comparison starts at the beginning of the event with Nicodemus copying the event from James [Mark] because he wasn't present:

Matthew 16:13 Now when Jesus came into the parts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
Mark 8:27 Jesus went out, with his disciples, into the villages of Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked his disciples, “Who do men say that I am?”

Matthew 16:14 They said, “Some say John the Baptizer, some, Elijah, and others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
Mark 8:28 They told him, “John the Baptizer, and others say Elijah, but others, one of the prophets.”

Matthew 16:15-16 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Mark 8:29 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter answered, “You are the Christ.”

Then there is the add-on by the false teachers:
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Nicodemus did not copy these sections so where did they come from because he wasn't present? The are edits from the false teachers to build the Catholic Church. Then the accounts details match again:
Mat 16:20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.
Mark 8:30 commanded them that they should tell no one about him.
Mat 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.
Mark 8:31 He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Mat 16:22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.”
Mark 8:32 He spoke to them openly. Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
Mat 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”
Mark 8:33 But he, turning around, and seeing his disciples, rebuked Peter, and said, “Get behind me, Satan! For you have in mind not the things of God, but the things of men.”
"This rock" could just as well be his profession, not him as an individual, especially since Jesus balled him out just afterwards as an agent of Satan for rebuking him.
It doesn't matter what the Rock means because it wasn't said by Jesus. It was the only section that Nicodemus didn't copied from Mark's author. It was added later. Note that there is another instance of Peter claiming that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God. I think it's recorded by John. There is a much different reaction by Jesus and it is in a section that address false teachers. Ya think Jesus was giving us a message. Also, the words used in Matthew for Peter, "Simon Peter," are not typical for Nicodemus as he never knew Peter as Simon. More proof of the fraud!
In the storm, he walked on the water only briefly until his lack (or weak) faith made him sink. Now, if he had started dancing on the water, maybe the Catholics have a point. But Peter only appears to be the disciples' spokesman.
Doesn't matter what people think of it because if you so a similar analysis you will find that it didn't happen. It is fraud.
Document the false teachers' actions that you claim they made to the manuscripts.
You just reviewed one. Feel free to perform the same analysis on Jesus walking on water and you will also find it to be fraud.
 

JustTheFacts

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No evidence?
I gave you scripture!
It is in the Bible, but how does that prove Matthew wrote the Gospel of Matthew? There is no evidence for it. You want some proof that Nicodemus wrote the Gospel start with the post I just explained to Bruce. It proves the author of Matthew copied from Mark then the foundation of the Catholic Church--Peter as the rock, was added.

I grew up Catholic and have three very Catholic sisters and others as friends. There are two types of Catholics--those who are interested in learning my results and those who no matter what you say to them or evidence you show them, they will always be Catholic. The first type of Catholic is a waste of time. In addition, it doesn't bother me that people stay Catholic, but being Catholic will not save anyone--it is all based on your belief in or rejection of Jesus.
 

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It is in the Bible, but how does that prove Matthew wrote the Gospel of Matthew? There is no evidence for it. You want some proof that Nicodemus wrote the Gospel start with the post I just explained to Bruce. It proves the author of Matthew copied from Mark then the foundation of the Catholic Church--Peter as the rock, was added.

The quotes I gave are evidence that Matthew was a follower of Jesus.
All early manuscripts are titled "The gospel according to Matthew".
Early fathers (2nd century) say Matthew wrote a gospel.
"Matthew composed the sayings in the Hebrew dialect" Papias of Hierapolis)
"Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church" (Irenaeus of Lyons -Against Heresies, 3, 1:1)


You have given no evidence that Nicodemus wrote a gospel - you just assert it.
You have given no evidence that Nicodemus was a follower of Jesus.

I could make a better case for Matthias - his name is similar and he was with Jesus from the beginning of his ministry (Acts 1:21-23)
I grew up Catholic and have three very Catholic sisters and others as friends. There are two types of Catholics--those who are interested in learning my results and those who no matter what you say to them or evidence you show them, they will always be Catholic. The first type of Catholic is a waste of time. In addition, it doesn't bother me that people stay Catholic, but being Catholic will not save anyone--it is all based on your belief in or rejection of Jesus.

So, having failed to make your case you just resort to abusing Catholics
 

JustTheFacts

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The quotes I gave are evidence that Matthew was a follower of Jesus.
All early manuscripts are titled "The gospel according to Matthew".
Early fathers (2nd century) say Matthew wrote a gospel.
"Matthew composed the sayings in the Hebrew dialect" Papias of Hierapolis)
"Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church" (Irenaeus of Lyons -Against Heresies, 3, 1:1)


You have given no evidence that Nicodemus wrote a gospel - you just assert it.
You have given no evidence that Nicodemus was a follower of Jesus.

I could make a better case for Matthias - his name is similar and he was with Jesus from the beginning of his ministry (Acts 1:21-23)


So, having failed to make your case you just resort to abusing Catholics
Spoken like a true Catholic--attack the messenger rather than the message. When I started my investigation I didn't know where it would lead, but as with all my investigations, I was out to find and report the truth. You may not like the truth, but I present my findings and YOU are responsible for your beliefs, not me. You can engage with me and try to prove me wrong--which I welcome, or you can attack me--your choice. You can also play the role of Origen and laugh at anything I write while having no opinion on anything. I fully expect Origen to laugh at this reply too, so please don't disappoint me Origen as I look forward to your foolishness.

I must be on to something because in another forum, the atheists are hot on my trail--they do not appreciate me presenting evidence that the story of Jesus in the Bible is the truth. They are used to pointing out contradictions to prove the Bible is not the word of God. I point out the contradictions as proof that it is the word or God because God warned us about false teachers and their words embedded in the word of God.
 

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Spoken like a true Catholic--attack the messenger rather than the message. When I started my investigation I didn't know where it would lead, but as with all my investigations, I was out to find and report the truth. You may not like the truth, but I present my findings and YOU are responsible for your beliefs, not me. You can engage with me and try to prove me wrong--which I welcome, or you can attack me--your choice. You can also play the role of Origen and laugh at anything I write while having no opinion on anything. I fully expect Origen to laugh at this reply too, so please don't disappoint me Origen as I look forward to your foolishness.

I must be on to something because in another forum, the atheists are hot on my trail--they do not appreciate me presenting evidence that the story of Jesus in the Bible is the truth. They are used to pointing out contradictions to prove the Bible is not the word of God. I point out the contradictions as proof that it is the word or God because God warned us about false teachers and their words embedded in the word of God.
Still no evidence for your claims, just personal abuse.
 

JustTheFacts

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Still no evidence for your claims, just personal abuse.
lol. So what portion of my analysis of Matthew 16 as it applied to the foundation of the Catholic Church did you disagree with and why?
 

JustTheFacts

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The quotes I gave are evidence that Matthew was a follower of Jesus.
It is questionable because John doesn't mention Matthew and the false teachers changed the name in a copied account. But let's say he is and you are trying to prove he's the author.
All early manuscripts are titled "The gospel according to Matthew".
When were those dated and how many years after they were written are those documents?
Early fathers (2nd century) say Matthew wrote a gospel.
A second century person CANNOT tell you who the author of Matthew was and provide it as evidence. What are their names and where did they get the information so that it can be validated?
"Matthew composed the sayings in the Hebrew dialect" Papias of Hierapolis)
Yes and from what I recall those were from scraps of a document that once existed, but doesn't any more. Not only that, Papias never knew Matthew and lived years after the Gospel was written.
"Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church" (Irenaeus of Lyons -Against Heresies, 3, 1:1)
Same for Irenaeus--if I recall he was even a later resource without any proof.

Given all this sketchy data, it sure seems like a created story of fraud to me, but what do I know--I just investigate it.
You have given no evidence that Nicodemus wrote a gospel - you just assert it.
Since you fail to read back at my guidance for figuring it out, I'll present it in a nutshell again.
1. Do an analysis on the accounts in Matthew to prove to yourself that he copied from Mark's author--this is relatively easy; look for eyewitness data that are different in the accounts.
2. Separate the copied material from the independent material to generate a profile of who the author was and what he was like.
3. Search for a person in the Bible who matches the profile. You will find the answer I've provided--Nicodemus is the only match and I am 100% confident that it is him.
You have given no evidence that Nicodemus was a follower of Jesus.
I don't need to give you evidence. Read your Bible.
I could make a better case for Matthias - his name is similar and he was with Jesus from the beginning of his ministry (Acts 1:21-23)
I'd look at your analysis and provide comments.
So, having failed to make your case you just resort to abusing Catholics
I guess I saw this post and neglected the rest of your comments. I get tired of being accused of Catholic bashing when all I'm doing is presenting the evidence generated from a word of God investigation.
 

Stephen

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lol. So what portion of my analysis of Matthew 16 as it applied to the foundation of the Catholic Church did you disagree with and why?

As I keep saying:
You have given no evidence that Nicodemus wrote a gospel - you just assert it.
You have given no evidence that Nicodemus was a follower of Jesus.
This is nothing to do with Matthew 16
 

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JustTheFacts

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As I keep saying:
You have given no evidence that Nicodemus wrote a gospel - you just assert it.
You have given no evidence that Nicodemus was a follower of Jesus.
This is nothing to do with Matthew 16
Nope, I gave you the process on how you can prove it for yourself. I did my homework, if you are that interested follow my steps and I will help you along the way. I'm not going to read you the sections in the Bible that address Nicodemus either.

It has everything to do with Matthew. Matthew as a disciple is one who can validate that Peter walked on water and Jesus assigned Peter to lead the Church. With Matthew copying from John Mark who wrote down the words of Peter, there is more proof of Matthew being a disciple, although for all practical purposes it is stupid theology that makes no sense.

With Nicodemus as the author copying from James because he is completing the investigation of Jesus his fellow Pharisees challenged him to do, he is not a witness of those Peter foundation passages in Matthew. Nicodemus wasn't there to witness them the documentation for Peter walking on water and Matthew 16:17-19, and under scrutiny the it is proven that the material was copied as expected. Sorry, but the evidence shows it was a fraud and this is validated through prophecy. Heck, Jesus even told us how the Church would be taken over through Revelation 13:3 and 13:12. Jesus told us twice so we would make sure we understand.
 

JustTheFacts

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Is John the only gospel you believe is valid?
On the contrary. The evidence proves that Nicodemus, and eyewitness wrote Matthew, and that James the brother of John wrote Mark. There are three eyewitness testimonies proving Jesus as the Messiah and God in accordance with the Law of God specified in Deuteronomy.
 

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On the contrary. The evidence proves that Nicodemus, and eyewitness wrote Matthew, and that James the brother of John wrote Mark. There are three eyewitness testimonies proving Jesus as the Messiah and God in accordance with the Law of God specified in Deuteronomy.

That really is crazy. There is no evidence that James wrote the gospel according to Mark
 

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On the contrary. The evidence proves that Nicodemus, and eyewitness wrote Matthew, and that James the brother of John wrote Mark. There are three eyewitness testimonies proving Jesus as the Messiah and God in accordance with the Law of God specified in Deuteronomy.

You have given no evidence that Nicodemus wrote the gospel according to Matthew. Nil. Zero
You have given no evidence that Nicodemus was a follower of Jesus. Nil. Zero

You keep avoiding these issues.
 

JustTheFacts

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You have given no evidence that Nicodemus wrote the gospel according to Matthew. Nil. Zero
You have given no evidence that Nicodemus was a follower of Jesus. Nil. Zero

You keep avoiding these issues.
lol and you want to be spoon fed.
That really is crazy. There is no evidence that James wrote the gospel according to Mark
So you have evidence that John Mark wrote it? I'd be interested in seeing what has you believing it because I did my homework and found none.
 

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lol and you want to be spoon fed.
No, I just want you to present the evidence; something you seem very reluctant to do.

So you have evidence that John Mark wrote it? I'd be interested in seeing what has you believing it because I did my homework and found none.
I've given it to you
 
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