Crazy Christian Theology

[Lamb]

Where in the word of God does it say that theology comes from the Holy Spirit? The word of God comes from the Holy Spirit, but I haven't read anything pointing me to Theology as the word of God. Please share.

Theology means study of God. Since the Holy Bible is about the study of God, then that theology comes from God.

Your argument is about which books are canon, and that was already settled by those who have studied numerous scrolls and texts.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Theology means study of God. Since the Holy Bible is about the study of God, then that theology comes from God.

Your argument is about which books are canon, and that was already settled by those who have studied numerous scrolls and texts.

I agree that theology means the study of God. The Meririam-Webster online defintion of it is:
"the study of religious faith, practice, and experience especially : the study of God and of God's relation to the world"

One of their examples of "theology" used in a sentence is: "The bishop was opposed to the group's theology."

Theology is the study of God AND the conclusions made from these studies. Matthew, Mark, and Luke as authors is not the word of God it is theology because certain men decided that they are the authors. Many Christians still dispute their claims--as I do. Even my NIV study Bible claims there are questions about the authors. The interpretations of Daniel and Revelation prophecy you hear are theology--it is not the word of God. They read the word of God from the those books, then decide what it means then they tell you their conclusions. Their conclusions are theology, not the word of God. My conclusions differ from theirs and I have presented the reasons why. I appreciate the comments of others because they may have reasons for believing their theology that I haven't considered, and this may impact my results.

When and who decided that what is in the New Testament was the word of God? And how did they determine it? I'd be interested in why you believe so strongly that they are right.

 

[BruceLeiter]

I don 't speak the word of God and my dreams don't give me the word of God to speak. You have the same word of God that I do-written in the Bible. You find meaning of the word of God through theology--the opinions of others, some who claim to be experts. Throughout my career I've dealt with numerous so-called experts--many with PhDs, and found them to be lacking common sense and analytical skills. I use my investigative and interrogation training experience, assessment and audit training and experience, proven document analytical skills, along with my dreams/visions to study the word of God in the Bible.

My results do not support common theology that many Christians believe and hold dear to their hearts. I debate the word of God with verses that are in the Bible AND proven through Deuteronomy to be the word of God. Most Christians don't like this--they want to debate me with theology, but I won't do it because theology is unproven opinions of others and I focus on facts--not opinions.

JustTheFacts, you have exposed the fallacy of your approach to the Bible. You use human abilities to study the Bible from outside the Bible. The best theology studies the Bible from its own viewpoints (after all, it is God's inspired Word), not from external viewpoints, which you have done.

 

[JustTheFacts]

JustTheFacts, you have exposed the fallacy of your approach to the Bible. You use human abilities to study the Bible from outside the Bible. The best theology studies the Bible from its own viewpoints (after all, it is God's inspired Word), not from external viewpoints, which you have done.

Bruce, I use human abilities because God blessed me with them--the skills and experience to do what I am doing. Am I to reject God and follow your path to theology because you and others don't agree with my conclusions? Which one of my conclusions would you like to prove wrong to back up your claim that my Bible study analysis approach does not meet God's standards?

 

[BruceLeiter]

Bruce, I use human abilities because God blessed me with them--the skills and experience to do what I am doing. Am I to reject God and follow your path to theology because you and others don't agree with my conclusions? Which one of my conclusions would you like to prove wrong to back up your claim that my Bible study analysis approach does not meet God's standards?

For example, your use of the dictionary's meanings shows that the ordinary, popular meanings of words are important to you rather than the Bible's own meanings as God's Word through word studies within the Bible.

Your constant emphasis on the authorship of the gospels reveals your modern approach, whereas many writings in the ancient world were anonymous. They can be authenticated by analysis of their content and whether or not they agree with the other authenticated writings and whether or not they are God-honoring in nature.

You take a couple verses from Deuteronomy and base you whole analysis of the gospel writers on them. However, the early church rightly compared the whole Old Testament's revelation of God and his relationship with humanity and then with Abraham and his descendants to determine the truth of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They decided that the gospels were beyond question authentic regardless of their possible anonymity.

You talk about the early church being turned over to false teachers, but the passages you refer to don't give the time when that event will happen. There are many false teachers today; maybe, it's now.

I admire your human abilities, but the question is whether or not you have used them correctly in interpreting the Bible. I suggest that you might take online courses from a conservative seminary like Dallas or Calvin, maybe survey courses of both Testaments. You can disagree with their analysis, but it should be close to the Scripture, and you might learn that what I'm saying is true.

 

[JustTheFacts]

For example, your use of the dictionary's meanings shows that the ordinary, popular meanings of words are important to you rather than the Bible's own meanings as God's Word through word studies within the Bible.

So then how did I come up with the woman of Revelation meaning the Church? Or the seven of Revelation meaning something that is complete? You are way off base Bruce.

Your constant emphasis on the authorship of the gospels reveals your modern approach, whereas many writings in the ancient world were anonymous. They can be authenticated by analysis of their content and whether or not they agree with the other authenticated writings and whether or not they are God-honoring in nature.

I emphasize the gospel authors because it explains the corruption and their testimony of Jesus as being eyewitness validation and verification. Have you examined the data in the Gospels to see if Nicodemus is the author rather than Matthew?

You take a couple verses from Deuteronomy and base you whole analysis of the gospel writers on them. However, the early church rightly compared the whole Old Testament's revelation of God and his relationship with humanity and then with Abraham and his descendants to determine the truth of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They decided that the gospels were beyond question authentic regardless of their possible anonymity.

How many words does it take for God to tell you what is and what isn't expected? Let me guess, you can't counter what I've written and you found no other words of God specifying the God's criterial for being able to speak for him. You don't like the conclusion so you are digging deep into theology to counter God's Law. Why?

You talk about the early church being turned over to false teachers, but the passages you refer to don't give the time when that event will happen. There are many false teachers today; maybe, it's now.

Actually the specify exactly when the corruption started. See my analysis and dating of Revelation chapter 12 and 13 that I posted. The CJC takeover started immediately but the Catholic Church started somewhat later. I don't have that date from scripture, but we can be assured it is after Peter, and likely his brother Andrew, were sacrificed as the two witnesses. Revelation 12:9 and 13:9 tell us the beast is is based on someone who received a fatal wound and that is Peter. Peter is the foundation of the beast.

I admire your human abilities, but the question is whether or not you have used them correctly in interpreting the Bible. I suggest that you might take online courses from a conservative seminary like Dallas or Calvin, maybe survey courses of both Testaments. You can disagree with their analysis, but it should be close to the Scripture, and you might learn that what I'm saying is true.

It's like I told two bosses of mine that wanted me to take graduate classes so that I could move up the ladder at Los Alamos National Laboratory. I responded, "Why, so I can be like you I don't want to be like you and I've been very successful throughout my career. not being like you being obsessed with the letters after someone's name." I went on to manage their Investigations Group and turned down other promotional opportunities.

In summary, I am confident of my results and maybe the answer isn't me changing, maybe you need to step outside your theology and educational box to closely examine what I'm writing and evaluate it on it's merits, rather than what you think I should be considering. My conclusions are either right or they are wrong. Do you have the background, experience, ability, and knowledge to evaluate them or do you not?

 

[BruceLeiter]

So then how did I come up with the woman of Revelation meaning the Church? Or the seven of Revelation meaning something that is complete? You are way off base Bruce.

I emphasize the gospel authors because it explains the corruption and their testimony of Jesus as being eyewitness validation and verification. Have you examined the data in the Gospels to see if Nicodemus is the author rather than Matthew?

How many words does it take for God to tell you what is and what isn't expected? Let me guess, you can't counter what I've written and you found no other words of God specifying the God's criterial for being able to speak for him. You don't like the conclusion so you are digging deep into theology to counter God's Law. Why?

Actually the specify exactly when the corruption started. See my analysis and dating of Revelation chapter 12 and 13 that I posted. The CJC takeover started immediately but the Catholic Church started somewhat later. I don't have that date from scripture, but we can be assured it is after Peter, and likely his brother Andrew, were sacrificed as the two witnesses. Revelation 12:9 and 13:9 tell us the beast is is based on someone who received a fatal wound and that is Peter. Peter is the foundation of the beast.

It's like I told two bosses of mine that wanted me to take graduate classes so that I could move up the ladder at Los Alamos National Laboratory. I responded, "Why, so I can be like you I don't want to be like you and I've been very successful throughout my career. not being like you being obsessed with the letters after someone's name." I went on to manage their Investigations Group and turned down other promotional opportunities.

In summary, I am confident of my results and maybe the answer isn't me changing, maybe you need to step outside your theology and educational box to closely examine what I'm writing and evaluate it on it's merits, rather than what you think I should be considering. My conclusions are either right or they are wrong. Do you have the background, experience, ability, and knowledge to evaluate them or do you not?

(1) To which woman in Revelation are you referring? There's Jezebel in the letters, Babylon, and the new Jerusalem in a wedding dress. But why do you use dictionary meanings of words?
(2) I find nothing in Matthew to verify that Nicodemus is the author. The only references are in John, where he is identified as a "ruler of the Jews" (3:1).
(3) You haven't answered my criticism in those sentences. God's law is much of the Old Testament, and the history also shows it. Just please answer my objection, okay?
(4) Your assumptions may be right, and they may be wrong.
(5) So, are you asking me to "step aside" of my biblical box, since my education has given me that box? You're assuming that my education took my understanding of Scripture outside of it to accept unbiblical ideas. It didn't.

So then how did I come up with the woman of Revelation meaning the Church? Or the seven of Revelation meaning something that is complete? You are way off base Bruce.

I emphasize the gospel authors because it explains the corruption and their testimony of Jesus as being eyewitness validation and verification. Have you examined the data in the Gospels to see if Nicodemus is the author rather than Matthew?

How many words does it take for God to tell you what is and what isn't expected? Let me guess, you can't counter what I've written and you found no other words of God specifying the God's criterial for being able to speak for him. You don't like the conclusion so you are digging deep into theology to counter God's Law. Why?

Actually the specify exactly when the corruption started. See my analysis and dating of Revelation chapter 12 and 13 that I posted. The CJC takeover started immediately but the Catholic Church started somewhat later. I don't have that date from scripture, but we can be assured it is after Peter, and likely his brother Andrew, were sacrificed as the two witnesses. Revelation 12:9 and 13:9 tell us the beast is is based on someone who received a fatal wound and that is Peter. Peter is the foundation of the beast.

It's like I told two bosses of mine that wanted me to take graduate classes so that I could move up the ladder at Los Alamos National Laboratory. I responded, "Why, so I can be like you I don't want to be like you and I've been very successful throughout my career. not being like you being obsessed with the letters after someone's name." I went on to manage their Investigations Group and turned down other promotional opportunities.

In summary, I am confident of my results and maybe the answer isn't me changing, maybe you need to step outside your theology and educational box to closely examine what I'm writing and evaluate it on it's merits, rather than what you think I should be considering. My conclusions are either right or they are wrong. Do you have the background, experience, ability, and knowledge to evaluate them or do you not?

 

[JustTheFacts]

(1) To which woman in Revelation are you referring? There's Jezebel in the letters, Babylon, and the new Jerusalem in a wedding dress. But why do you use dictionary meanings of words?

The woman transforms over time. She starts out pure as Jesus and the disciples starting the CJC, then becomes corrupted. The Church never becomes like Jesus again. It is always corrupted (theology, the words of other who can't speak for God, the business of the church, etc.). Consider the woman ends up being called the "Mother of all Prostitutes." The woman started out as the beast then when the church split from the Catholics, what came from the Catholics is not pure. Babylon is a reference to the Church in its entirety. A place that Jesus is not proud of. Note that this is not a reference to sincere followers of Jesus searching for the truth. Are there Churches that follow Jesus and only Jesus without regard to business, possessions, and numbers attending? I can't answer that, but I haven't been to one yet.

(2) I find nothing in Matthew to verify that Nicodemus is the author. The only references are in John, where he is identified as a "ruler of the Jews" (3:1).

The false teachers hid Nicodemus--it is a fraud, and people committing it want it hidden. The proof for Nicodemus has to be assembled. Separate the independent material from what is copied and take a look at what the author wrote. Also, I hope you find it peculiar that John recorded Nicodemus being challenged by his fellow Pharisees to investigate Jesus--then what was written is missing!

(3) You haven't answered my criticism in those sentences. God's law is much of the Old Testament, and the history also shows it. Just please answer my objection, okay?

Deuteronomy was the only specification for specifying who was validated and verified as being able to speak the word of God. Tag--you're it. If you can find something else, I'd gladly take a look at it with you. But honestly, what more guidance is needed?

(4) Your assumptions may be right, and they may be wrong.

I agree, but I try not to make assumptions--I follow the data. Please be specific if I've made an assumption I'll address it.

(5) So, are you asking me to "step aside" of my biblical box, since my education has given me that box? You're assuming that my education took my understanding of Scripture outside of it to accept unbiblical ideas. It didn't.

I'm not a student of theology--I'm an investigator with a proven great track record of solving difficult issues and problems. My ability to perform an independent and unbiased investigation was hampered by the theology I had heard that hid the truth from me on occasion. I'm asking you to focus only on the word of God. Dwell on it, pray, and read each word carefully and liberally apply the smell test. Does what your finding make sense and fit in with the rest of the message from God.

 

[BruceLeiter]

The woman transforms over time. She starts out pure as Jesus and the disciples starting the CJC, then becomes corrupted. The Church never becomes like Jesus again. It is always corrupted (theology, the words of other who can't speak for God, the business of the church, etc.). Consider the woman ends up being called the "Mother of all Prostitutes." The woman started out as the beast then when the church split from the Catholics, what came from the Catholics is not pure. Babylon is a reference to the Church in its entirety. A place that Jesus is not proud of. Note that this is not a reference to sincere followers of Jesus searching for the truth. Are there Churches that follow Jesus and only Jesus without regard to business, possessions, and numbers attending? I can't answer that, but I haven't been to one yet.

The false teachers hid Nicodemus--it is a fraud, and people committing it want it hidden. The proof for Nicodemus has to be assembled. Separate the independent material from what is copied and take a look at what the author wrote. Also, I hope you find it peculiar that John recorded Nicodemus being challenged by his fellow Pharisees to investigate Jesus--then what was written is missing!

Deuteronomy was the only specification for specifying who was validated and verified as being able to speak the word of God. Tag--you're it. If you can find something else, I'd gladly take a look at it with you. But honestly, what more guidance is needed?


I agree, but I try not to make assumptions--I follow the data. Please be specific if I've made an assumption I'll address it.


I'm not a student of theology--I'm an investigator with a proven great track record of solving difficult issues and problems. My ability to perform an independent and unbiased investigation was hampered by the theology I had heard that hid the truth from me on occasion. I'm asking you to focus only on the word of God. Dwell on it, pray, and read each word carefully and liberally apply the smell test. Does what your finding make sense and fit in with the rest of the message from God.

(1) I am a member of one such church, a huge, growing one that sticks very closely to the Bible and is built on the Bible, prayer, and small groups. So, you think that Jezebel, Babylon, and the new Jerusalem are the same woman?? That doesn't make any sense, if true.

(2) Where is clear evidence that the false teachers "hid Nicodemus"? That passage just shows that the rest of the Pharisees said he won't find that a prophet doesn't ever come from Galilee, if he would look through the Old Testament. They didn't expect him to do a word study.

(3) 1Sa_15:10 The word of the LORD came to Samuel:
2Sa_7:4 But that same night the word of the LORD came to Nathan
2Sa_23:2 “The Spirit of the LORD speaks by me; his word is on my tongue.
2Sa_24:11 And when David arose in the morning, the word of the LORD came to the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying,
Isa_38:4 Then the word of the LORD came to Isaiah:
Isa_39:5 Then Isaiah said to Hezekiah, “Hear the word of the LORD of hosts:

In the instances of the "word of the LORD," the messages were sometimes very short statements about a person's conduct like Nathan's to David about his adultery and murder, not predictions about the future. How would your rather-narrow definition fit it? Prophets shared God's Word in those days; sometimes it included predictions, sometimes not. Perhaps, you might do more word studies. I use the free program
e-sword for word and passage searching.

(4) Applying the "smell test" would be my deductions and my reasoning, not the Bible revealing its own truths on its own terms, which is what I always seek. Many conservative Christians and preachers do the same thing, including our church's members and preachers.

 

[JustTheFacts]

(1) I am a member of one such church, a huge, growing one that sticks very closely to the Bible and is built on the Bible, prayer, and small groups. So, you think that Jezebel, Babylon, and the new Jerusalem are the same woman?? That doesn't make any sense, if true.

Jezebel was before the woman was introduced so never associated it with the woman. Babylon is representative of the church a# a whole—full of corruption. New Jerusalem is the eternal Kingdom after the old is destroyed.

(2) Where is clear evidence that the false teachers "hid Nicodemus"? That passage just shows that the rest of the Pharisees said he won't find that a prophet doesn't ever come from Galilee, if he would look through the Old Testament. They didn't expect him to do a word study.

(3) 1Sa_15:10 The word of the LORD came to Samuel:
2Sa_7:4 But that same night the word of the LORD came to Nathan
2Sa_23:2 “The Spirit of the LORD speaks by me; his word is on my tongue.
2Sa_24:11 And when David arose in the morning, the word of the LORD came to the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying,
Isa_38:4 Then the word of the LORD came to Isaiah:
Isa_39:5 Then Isaiah said to Hezekiah, “Hear the word of the LORD of hosts:

In the instances of the "word of the LORD," the messages were sometimes very short statements about a person's conduct like Nathan's to David about his adultery and murder, not predictions about the future. How would your rather-narrow definition fit it? Prophets shared God's Word in those days; sometimes it included predictions, sometimes not. Perhaps, you might do more word studies. I use the free program
e-sword for word and passage searching.

(4) Applying the "smell test" would be my deductions and my reasoning, not the Bible revealing its own truths on its own terms, which is what I always seek. Many conservative Christians and preachers do the same thing, including our church's members and preachers.

(1) I am a member of one such church, a huge, growing one that sticks very closely to the Bible and is built on the Bible, prayer, and small groups.

I thought I had found a huge church that I initially thought met Jesus expectations then the first six weekly messages all connected somehow to giving. Then I found the truth when I met with the pastor a few times and found out some things.

So, you think that Jezebel, Babylon, and the new Jerusalem are the same woman?? That doesn't make any sense, if true.

I never associated Jezebel the woman already present in the Church with the false teachers because chronologically she is presented in the current Church before the woman is identified. However, it is an interesting thought and possible connection. Babylon represents the complete church made up the Mother of Prostitutes and the prostitutes. I never considered the New Jerusalem as the woman, because the New Jerusalem arrives after the Kingdom of God, the church on earth is destroyed.

(2) Where is clear evidence that the false teachers "hid Nicodemus"? That passage just shows that the rest of the Pharisees said he won't find that a prophet doesn't ever come from Galilee, if he would look through the Old Testament. They didn't expect him to do a word study.

My NIV's experts claim that "The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53—8:11." John 7:53 claims that "Everyone went to his own house." This does not even seem like an ending that John, the detail oriented disciple, would document. He gave Nicodemus top billing in his book presenting him in chapter three just after presenting the importance of witnessing the resurrection of Jesus. The most referenced and powerful verse in the Bible is provided to Nicodemus when Jesus taught him. I believe the experts are on to something with John's documentation being edited.

(3) 1Sa_15:10 The word of the LORD came to Samuel:
2Sa_7:4 But that same night the word of the LORD came to Nathan
2Sa_23:2 “The Spirit of the LORD speaks by me; his word is on my tongue.
2Sa_24:11 And when David arose in the morning, the word of the LORD came to the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying,
Isa_38:4 Then the word of the LORD came to Isaiah:
Isa_39:5 Then Isaiah said to Hezekiah, “Hear the word of the LORD of hosts:

In the instances of the "word of the LORD," the messages were sometimes very short statements about a person's conduct like Nathan's to David about his adultery and murder, not predictions about the future. How would your rather-narrow definition fit it? Prophets shared God's Word in those days; sometimes it included predictions, sometimes not. Perhaps, you might do more word studies. I use the free program
e-sword for word and passage searching.

These are prophets speaking the word of God if they meet Deuteronomy, which they all do. This is not criteria or a specification for what constitutes the word of God. I found that only Deuteronomy specified it and that was to Moses who also received the Law so it makes sense.

(4) Applying the "smell test" would be my deductions and my reasoning, not the Bible revealing its own truths on its own terms, which is what I always seek. Many conservative Christians and preachers do the same thing, including our church's members and preachers.

Do you not believe that God's word will make sense to us? My favorite passage in one of my favorite books is Daniel 12:10

Many will purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked will do wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand; but those who are wise will understand.

God wants us to understand his words and I think the smell test helps us in that regard. The smell test was very important for my investigative work and troubleshooting issues and problems. The word of God will make sense and prove Jesus as the Messiah and God. I found that when I apply this principal to my understanding of the word of God, it keeps me on the right path. Maybe it's just me.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Jezebel was before the woman was introduced so never associated it with the woman. Babylon is representative of the church a# a whole—full of corruption. New Jerusalem is the eternal Kingdom after the old is destroyed.



I thought I had found a huge church that I initially thought met Jesus expectations then the first six weekly messages all connected somehow to giving. Then I found the truth when I met with the pastor a few times and found out some things.

I never associated Jezebel the woman already present in the Church with the false teachers because chronologically she is presented in the current Church before the woman is identified. However, it is an interesting thought and possible connection. Babylon represents the complete church made up the Mother of Prostitutes and the prostitutes. I never considered the New Jerusalem as the woman, because the New Jerusalem arrives after the Kingdom of God, the church on earth is destroyed.

My NIV's experts claim that "The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53—8:11." John 7:53 claims that "Everyone went to his own house." This does not even seem like an ending that John, the detail oriented disciple, would document. He gave Nicodemus top billing in his book presenting him in chapter three just after presenting the importance of witnessing the resurrection of Jesus. The most referenced and powerful verse in the Bible is provided to Nicodemus when Jesus taught him. I believe the experts are on to something with John's documentation being edited.

These are prophets speaking the word of God if they meet Deuteronomy, which they all do. This is not criteria or a specification for what constitutes the word of God. I found that only Deuteronomy specified it and that was to Moses who also received the Law so it makes sense.

Do you not believe that God's word will make sense to us? My favorite passage in one of my favorite books is Daniel 12:10

Many will purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked will do wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand; but those who are wise will understand.

God wants us to understand his words and I think the smell test helps us in that regard. The smell test was very important for my investigative work and troubleshooting issues and problems. The word of God will make sense and prove Jesus as the Messiah and God. I found that when I apply this principal to my understanding of the word of God, it keeps me on the right path. Maybe it's just me.

"Babylon" appears to be the world's unbelieving religious system, not the Christian church, which wasn't the Roman Catholics at that time. For all their incorrect theology, at least the Catholics are strongly Trinitarian and have that key belief in common with Protestants. I believe that the "beast" is the world's political system that wants to do things their way rather than God's way.

Rev 17:1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters,
Rev 17:2 with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.”
Rev 17:3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality.
Rev 17:5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.”

 

[BruceLeiter]

Jezebel was before the woman was introduced so never associated it with the woman. Babylon is representative of the church a# a whole—full of corruption. New Jerusalem is the eternal Kingdom after the old is destroyed.



I thought I had found a huge church that I initially thought met Jesus expectations then the first six weekly messages all connected somehow to giving. Then I found the truth when I met with the pastor a few times and found out some things.

I never associated Jezebel the woman already present in the Church with the false teachers because chronologically she is presented in the current Church before the woman is identified. However, it is an interesting thought and possible connection. Babylon represents the complete church made up the Mother of Prostitutes and the prostitutes. I never considered the New Jerusalem as the woman, because the New Jerusalem arrives after the Kingdom of God, the church on earth is destroyed.

My NIV's experts claim that "The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53—8:11." John 7:53 claims that "Everyone went to his own house." This does not even seem like an ending that John, the detail oriented disciple, would document. He gave Nicodemus top billing in his book presenting him in chapter three just after presenting the importance of witnessing the resurrection of Jesus. The most referenced and powerful verse in the Bible is provided to Nicodemus when Jesus taught him. I believe the experts are on to something with John's documentation being edited.

These are prophets speaking the word of God if they meet Deuteronomy, which they all do. This is not criteria or a specification for what constitutes the word of God. I found that only Deuteronomy specified it and that was to Moses who also received the Law so it makes sense.

Do you not believe that God's word will make sense to us? My favorite passage in one of my favorite books is Daniel 12:10

Many will purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked will do wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand; but those who are wise will understand.

God wants us to understand his words and I think the smell test helps us in that regard. The smell test was very important for my investigative work and troubleshooting issues and problems. The word of God will make sense and prove Jesus as the Messiah and God. I found that when I apply this principal to my understanding of the word of God, it keeps me on the right path. Maybe it's just me.

Well, we certainly agree on Jesus as God along with the Father and the Holy Spirit as the one God, don't we? The Gospel of John is very clear on that truth. However, I'm a little more tentative on my interpretations of prophecies than you are. The false teachers taking over the early church and Nicodemus as the author of any books are ideas on which we will probably have to agree to disagree. But I have enjoyed our conversation.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Well, we certainly agree on Jesus as God along with the Father and the Holy Spirit as the one God, don't we? The Gospel of John is very clear on that truth.

In the general scheme of things, this is all that matters and I am 100% with Jesus and stand with you.

However, I'm a little more tentative on my interpretations of prophecies than you are. The false teachers taking over the early church and Nicodemus as the author of any books are ideas on which we will probably have to agree to disagree. But I have enjoyed our conversation.

I've enjoyed your thoughtful questions and I know this is a very tough subject. I think I know why the Lord picked me to fight this battle because this has been my job in the public and private sector for many years. Working for God thus far has been the most frustrating. I appreciate your input and feedback because although nobody has proven anything I've written wrong yet, the religious leaders that I've dealt with thus far are very narrow minded, and they have their theology and nothing will change their mind. Blessings Bruce!

 

[Planet1246]

Why didn't god create a race of robots rather than struggle with us humans and our sin. Sin is deep in our DNA, once you get beyond the breath of air you breath, you begin to sin. We sinned 2000 years ago and we are still sinning today. All the literature recited here will never change that.

 

[BruceLeiter]

In the general scheme of things, this is all that matters and I am 100% with Jesus and stand with you.

I've enjoyed your thoughtful questions and I know this is a very tough subject. I think I know why the Lord picked me to fight this battle because this has been my job in the public and private sector for many years. Working for God thus far has been the most frustrating. I appreciate your input and feedback because although nobody has proven anything I've written wrong yet, the religious leaders that I've dealt with thus far are very narrow minded, and they have their theology and nothing will change their mind. Blessings Bruce!

And may the 3-in-1 God bless you too in your journey with Jesus! Anything I can do or say to help, don't hesitate!

 

[BruceLeiter]

Why didn't god create a race of robots rather than struggle with us humans and our sin. Sin is deep in our DNA, once you get beyond the breath of air you breath, you begin to sin. We sinned 2000 years ago and we are still sinning today. All the literature recited here will never change that.

Yeah, he wanted to have close fellowship with us, a relationship that robots wouldn't fulfill. The struggle with our sins will be over some day when Jesus returns. I eagerly look forward to that time, but in the meantime, he has given me productive activities to do to keep my mind active and sharp, for which I'm very thankful. I'm now up to 14 books published. I also have a wonderful church and small group with very willing people to help me with my limitations.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Why didn't god create a race of robots rather than struggle with us humans and our sin. Sin is deep in our DNA, once you get beyond the breath of air you breath, you begin to sin. We sinned 2000 years ago and we are still sinning today. All the literature recited here will never change that.

Jesus clearly gives us his forgiveness and access to the Father's not-guilty verdict through his death AND his resurrection power for our victory over sins in our lives, though that process lasts a lifetime, as you mention. Look at Colossians 3, where Paul bases his commands for our spiritual progress on Jesus' resurrection (verse 1). I have written a book on Colossians that you might be interested in: Live Jesus' Risen Life: A Practical Colossians Guide (Amazon). It's coming on Amazon now and should be fully there by the end of this week.

 

[JustTheFacts]

And may the 3-in-1 God bless you too in your journey with Jesus! Anything I can do or say to help, don't hesitate!

Thanks Bruce. Just like you, God gave me a job to do and I’m doing the best I can. I appreciate your feedback and pray you keep trying to shoot holes in my conclusions because it makes me consider and rethink my results. God bless you and thanks for the kind words.

 

[Planet1246]

Yeah, he wanted to have close fellowship with us, a relationship that robots wouldn't fulfill. The struggle with our sins will be over some day when Jesus returns. I eagerly look forward to that time, but in the meantime, he has given me productive activities to do to keep my mind active and sharp, for which I'm very thankful. I'm now up to 14 books published. I also have a wonderful church and small group with very willing people to help me with my limitations.

I hear and see signs everywhere that Jesus is going to return. Is that speaking metaphorically? What do you envision things would be like when Jesus returns? How will it change our DNA for humans not to sin? Will life as we know it be some sort of dystopian world or would it be utter bliss, because to me utter bliss is lustful?

 

[JustTheFacts]

I hear and see signs everywhere that Jesus is going to return. Is that speaking metaphorically? What do you envision things would be like when Jesus returns? How will it change our DNA for humans not to sin? Will life as we know it be some sort of dystopian world or would it be utter bliss, because to me utter bliss is lustful?

Christians love to focus on a return of Jesus based on the words of Paul, but I cannot find anything supporting this from the words of Jesus or prophecy. In fact, Jesus stated that he will return, but this is in regards to the final judgement, not some seven year tribulation period and 1,000 year kingdom.

31 “But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. (Matthew 25:31-33)

We have the rules/Law to live by and we also know that our sin is forgiven through a life dedicated to our belief in Jesus. What more should we focus on, then living our lives for Jesus? Note that this reference to sheep and goats connects to the Ram and goat of Daniel chapter eight.