Crazy Christian Theology

[JustTheFacts]

Arguing from silence in any literature is a bogus argument. You speak as if Nicodemus' authorship of Matthew is a fact.

You speak as though you've had extensive investigations experience.

No, it's just your unproven theory that will never be proven.

I guess you've looked at my analysis and details then, or are you just another biased believer of theology?

The four authors of the gospels included and excluded details and events with the purpose of meeting their audiences' needs, not for the purpose you imagine.

For example.....

That's why arguing from a gospel's silence is so bogus. It proves nothing. Please take it from this former English teacher (8 years) and pastor (27 years) with master's degrees in both.

So you don't have any investigative experience. Your claim is based on teaching English and being a pastor. In other words you have no training to detect fraud or analyze documents to find the truth.

BTW, this conclusion is provided by an expert analyst and investigator with proven training and accomplishments and a resume to back it up.

 

[Lamb]

You speak as though you've had extensive investigations experience.

I guess you've looked at my analysis and details then, or are you just another biased believer of theology?

For example.....

So you don't have any investigative experience. Your claim is based on teaching English and being a pastor. In other words you have no training to detect fraud or analyze documents to find the truth.

BTW, this conclusion is provided by an expert analyst and investigator with proven training and accomplishments and a resume to back it up.

Are you trained in reading original manuscripts in original languages of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek?

 

[JustTheFacts]

Are you trained in reading original manuscripts in original languages of Hebrew, Arabic and Greek?

Are you implying that you don't trust the English interpretations? What value would that add to my conclusions when I am considering variations in English interpretations in my analysis?

 

[Lamb]

Are you implying that you don't trust the English interpretations? What value would that add to my conclusions when I am considering variations in English interpretations in my analysis?

"Inerrant" applies to the original manuscripts.

 

[JustTheFacts]

"Inerrant" applies to the original manuscripts.

But you nor anyone else has the original manuscripts. There are several references to the Good News being spread to all nations, languages, and people (Mark 13:10)--and this cannot happen unless there are translations. Are you saying that God was not capable of having Spirit driven people to translate the word of God without error?

It's not the word of God that's been corrupted, it's what's been CLAIMED TO BE THE WORD OF GOD that isn't inerrant. Jesus affirmed that the Good News will be corrupted throughout the world:

He said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and languages. (Revelation 17:15 )

Jesus is the living water and the prostitute is the Catholic Church--the "Mother of All Prostitutes." The living water--the words of Jesus as the word of God will be corrupted by false teachers. But Jesus also stated that his words won't be corrupted because the heaven and earth will end but his words will never end. This can only mean one thing--the Bible is not the word of God and it has been corrupted. The words of anonymous men and other men like Paul are not the word of God. Theology is not the word of God. But the Church focuses on both of these rather than the word of God through Jesus and the prophets.

People may not like what I write because it is backed up by the word of God, rather than theology. I explain my interpretations with the word of God and my interpretations make sense. Origen laughs yet has no input because he is lost in theology and considers the words of mere men to be the word of God--yet there is no word of God that can back up these beliefs. At least nobody has presented any supporting word of God as of yet.

 

[Lamb]

But you nor anyone else has the original manuscripts. There are several references to the Good News being spread to all nations, languages, and people (Mark 13:10)--and this cannot happen unless there are translations. Are you saying that God was not capable of having Spirit driven people to translate the word of God without error?

It's not the word of God that's been corrupted, it's what's been CLAIMED TO BE THE WORD OF GOD that isn't inerrant. Jesus affirmed that the Good News will be corrupted throughout the world:

He said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and languages. (Revelation 17:15 )

Jesus is the living water and the prostitute is the Catholic Church--the "Mother of All Prostitutes." The living water--the words of Jesus as the word of God will be corrupted by false teachers. But Jesus also stated that his words won't be corrupted because the heaven and earth will end but his words will never end. This can only mean one thing--the Bible is not the word of God and it has been corrupted. The words of anonymous men and other men like Paul are not the word of God. Theology is not the word of God. But the Church focuses on both of these rather than the word of God through Jesus and the prophets.

People may not like what I write because it is backed up by the word of God, rather than theology. I explain my interpretations with the word of God and my interpretations make sense. Origen laughs yet has no input because he is lost in theology and considers the words of mere men to be the word of God--yet there is no word of God that can back up these beliefs. At least nobody has presented any supporting word of God as of yet.

You're claiming you're the only one who has the true word of God? Is that what your post just said?

 

[JustTheFacts]

You're claiming you're the only one who has the true word of God? Is that what your post just said?

Not at all. I've said before that I do not speak the word of God nor can you because we don't meet the Law requirements for speaking the word of God that are specified in Deuteronomy (17:6, 19:15, and 18:21-22). We ALL have access to the complete word of God through the Bible, and the word of God in the Bible is inherent. But, not all documentation in the Bible is the word of God because some of it does not meet God's requirements to be accepted as the word of God. In addition, false teachers intentionally corrupted portions of the word of God through a few select edits and creative theology.

I've been summarizing my findings and should complete my analysis and conclusions soon. I still have to review my analysis and conclusions for determining the author of the Gospel of Mark, and for proving Jesus resurrected through the accounts in Matthew, Mark, and John. After I have completed these two last sections, if anyone is interested I will provide the complete details of the investigation from start to finish for comments and discussion.

 

[tango]

Well thus far I've only ran across three respected religious leaders who were willing to step outside their theology comfort zone to take a look at my data and conclusions. One, a minister and PhD in Chemistry told me my results were very interesting and he was using some of my results in his sermons. Another, a PhD in Theology stated, "It's very interesting what you are finding, and I can't debate any of your results--but I'll always remain a Catholic." The third, a Baptist minister of a large church has been busy but agreed to review the data so I send him updates everyday. Thus far he has been silent--which is a common reaction I received from a few other ministers. Religious leaders do not want anyone rocking their theology boat. That's a sad fact.

Every day as I start to document more results, I pray to God for guidance, direction and help to get the message exactly how he wants it. My only goal is to please God, but if you think it's important to have someone else review my work, then have them look it over. I welcome reviews and comments. I'm not hiding anything and I'm confident of the results. You can also complete the challenge I gave you to solve the 'seventy sevens' using the clue I provided. That little bit of hidden data along with the rejection of commonly accepted theology (CAT), is all you need. Prove it to yourself! You have everything you need!

A recurring theme in your posts here is that the responses you are seeing might mean you're onto something and people don't want their worldview shaken, but might also mean that your theories lack merit and people don't want to spend their time on them.

To insist that people not jumping on what you present is evidence that you are right and they are wilfully blind is, well, wilfully blind.

 

[JustTheFacts]

A recurring theme in your posts here is that the responses you are seeing might mean you're onto something and people don't want their worldview shaken, but might also mean that your theories lack merit and people don't want to spend their time on them.

Everyone on this site has their own expertise, mine is investigations and analysis. I don’t know Hebrew, Greek, nor am I great with English, but I know the Bible inside out. Does this frustrate you? Tango, you are just one more person telling me my results and conclusions lack merit, but just like everyone else, you provide no data to back up your rejection. I love feedback- especially from those who have made a career out of Jesus.

To insist that people not jumping on what you present is evidence that you are right and they are wilfully blind is, well, wilfully blind.

For two years my visions have told me that my conclusions will be rejected by religious leaders, scholars, and theologians who will be mad at me because they cannot prove me wrong, nor can they prove their theology right. Why don’t people get it? Maybe it’s being willfully blind. Maybe it’s comfort and laziness. Maybe it’s just lifelong theological brainwashing. I can’t answer for people and don’t want to and don’t care. I have a job to do and I’m doing it the best I can as I have done throughout my career.

 

[Lamb]

Everyone on this site has their own expertise, mine is investigations and analysis. I don’t know Hebrew, Greek, nor am I great with English, but I know the Bible inside out. Does this frustrate you? Tango, you are just one more person telling me my results and conclusions lack merit, but just like everyone else, you provide no data to back up your rejection. I love feedback- especially from those who have made a career out of Jesus.

For two years my visions have told me that my conclusions will be rejected by religious leaders, scholars, and theologians who will be mad at me because they cannot prove me wrong, nor can they prove their theology right. Why don’t people get it? Maybe it’s being willfully blind. Maybe it’s comfort and laziness. Maybe it’s just lifelong theological brainwashing. I can’t answer for people and don’t want to and don’t care. I have a job to do and I’m doing it the best I can as I have done throughout my career.

You trust your visions more than others who have also studied the bible inside and out?

 

[JustTheFacts]

No, I welcome hearing about the vision/dreams of others and Christians should examine them carefully to see if they are from the Holy Spirit (Joel 2:28). My calculations from Daniel/Revelation indicate that the last days are about 300 years off and this fits what we have been by the Holy Spirit through that passage in Joel.

When I started working for the Lord about 5 years ago, I started having visions/dreams. They are frequent, predict MY future, and provide guidance to help ME understand the word of God presented in the Bible. Before that I didn't dream. I've heard from others who have started to have visions/dreams and I encourage them to write them down and revisit them frequently to see if the Lord is also giving them a message to share.

 

[tango]

Everyone on this site has their own expertise, mine is investigations and analysis. I don’t know Hebrew, Greek, nor am I great with English, but I know the Bible inside out. Does this frustrate you? Tango, you are just one more person telling me my results and conclusions lack merit, but just like everyone else, you provide no data to back up your rejection. I love feedback- especially from those who have made a career out of Jesus.

I guess you didn't actually read my post. Try reading the post again and actually addressing it.

For two years my visions have told me that my conclusions will be rejected by religious leaders, scholars, and theologians who will be mad at me because they cannot prove me wrong, nor can they prove their theology right. Why don’t people get it? Maybe it’s being willfully blind. Maybe it’s comfort and laziness. Maybe it’s just lifelong theological brainwashing. I can’t answer for people and don’t want to and don’t care. I have a job to do and I’m doing it the best I can as I have done throughout my career.

Or maybe your conclusions are wrong. It could be your conclusions are right and people don't want their worldviews shaken, it could be that your conclusions are wrong.

If all you have to go on is visions then I'd be concerned your visions might be misleading you. It's all very well "knowing they are from God" but if you want to convince other people, particularly people who don't know you, you're going to need a lot more than "I had a vision and I know it's from God".

 

[BruceLeiter]

You speak as though you've had extensive investigations experience.

I guess you've looked at my analysis and details then, or are you just another biased believer of theology?

For example.....

So you don't have any investigative experience. Your claim is based on teaching English and being a pastor. In other words you have no training to detect fraud or analyze documents to find the truth.

BTW, this conclusion is provided by an expert analyst and investigator with proven training and accomplishments and a resume to back it up.

I have "investigated" and studied the interpretation of literature and the Bible for most of my adult life at the age of 82 We need to study both from their own viewpoints, not from analyses, ideas, and methods outside of them.

As for your visions, they must be measured against the Word of God as to whether they are from God or not. The Bible is the measuring stick for everything, including visions.

 

[JustTheFacts]

I have "investigated" and studied the interpretation of literature and the Bible for most of my adult life at the age of 82 We need to study both from their own viewpoints, not from analyses, ideas, and methods outside of them.

In other words, without seriously analyzing my results you find that your experience and expertise is useful in analyzing the Bible and mine is worthless. Is this your preconceived conclusion?

As for your visions, they must be measured against the Word of God as to whether they are from God or not. The Bible is the measuring stick for everything, including visions.

Since God has miraculously saved my life, sent me an angel named "Zeke" [Ezekiel?] to set in motion my future, allowed the spirit of a friend to visit me just after she died, shown me what hell is like, and provided me visions that come true in my life and help me resolve Bible mysteries that nobody else has, I'm pretty convinced that God is with me. You aren't convinced, so I suggest that a true test for you to find out if God is with me is to compare my analysis of Daniel 9:24-27 to your theology and see which one makes sense and validates the true message from God. I already know the answer.

You can either find out for yourself or continue to reject my conclusions as though you already have all the answers. There is a saying in the martial arts that having a black belt doesn't mean you know everything, it indicates that your eyes have been opened and you are just beginning to learn. The evidence in the book of Daniel proves that Daniel didn't understand his visions until the last year of his life. I understand much more about the word of God than I did before my investigation, but I've just scratched the surface.

 

[JustTheFacts]

I guess you didn't actually read my post. Try reading the post again and actually addressing it.



Or maybe your conclusions are wrong. It could be your conclusions are right and people don't want their worldviews shaken, it could be that your conclusions are wrong.

If all you have to go on is visions then I'd be concerned your visions might be misleading you. It's all very well "knowing they are from God" but if you want to convince other people, particularly people who don't know you, you're going to need a lot more than "I had a vision and I know it's from God".

I don't need to prove anything to anyone because I'm not after a following or selling anything. I suggest you start by comparing my analysis of Daniel 9:24-27 to your theology to see which one makes sense. Enough small talk, get down to the details.

 

[tango]

I don't need to prove anything to anyone because I'm not after a following or selling anything. I suggest you start by comparing my analysis of Daniel 9:24-27 to your theology to see which one makes sense. Enough small talk, get down to the details.

For someone not after a following you seem remarkably concerned that people don't accept your assertions.

 

[JustTheFacts]

For someone not after a following you seem remarkably concerned that people don't accept your assertions.

And for someone who is so certain that I'm wrong or misled, you seem to be avoiding comparing notes. Why is that?

 

[tango]

And for someone who is so certain that I'm wrong or misled, you seem to be avoiding comparing notes. Why is that?

... and still you refuse to actually read what I wrote. Try reading what other people write before assuming what they are saying. It really helps a lot.

 

[JustTheFacts]

... and still you refuse to actually read what I wrote. Try reading what other people write before assuming what they are saying. It really helps a lot.

I guess I'm missing the 'hidden gems' in what you are referring to. According to your words:

---"A recurring theme in your posts here is that the responses you are seeing might mean you're onto something and people don't want their worldview shaken, but might also mean that your theories lack merit and people don't want to spend their time on them."

---"To insist that people not jumping on what you present is evidence that you are right and they are wilfully blind is, well, wilfully blind."

---"Or maybe your conclusions are wrong. It could be your conclusions are right and people don't want their worldviews shaken, it could be that your conclusions are wrong."

---"If all you have to go on is visions then I'd be concerned your visions might be misleading you."

In summary, my theories "lack merit," I'm "willfilly blind" my "conclusions are wrong," and my "visions might be misleading" me. Did I miss something? I guess I missed the part where you actually examined something I've written.

 

[BruceLeiter]

In other words, without seriously analyzing my results you find that your experience and expertise is useful in analyzing the Bible and mine is worthless. Is this your preconceived conclusion?


Since God has miraculously saved my life, sent me an angel named "Zeke" [Ezekiel?] to set in motion my future, allowed the spirit of a friend to visit me just after she died, shown me what hell is like, and provided me visions that come true in my life and help me resolve Bible mysteries that nobody else has, I'm pretty convinced that God is with me. You aren't convinced, so I suggest that a true test for you to find out if God is with me is to compare my analysis of Daniel 9:24-27 to your theology and see which one makes sense and validates the true message from God. I already know the answer.

You can either find out for yourself or continue to reject my conclusions as though you already have all the answers. There is a saying in the martial arts that having a black belt doesn't mean you know everything, it indicates that your eyes have been opened and you are just beginning to learn. The evidence in the book of Daniel proves that Daniel didn't understand his visions until the last year of his life. I understand much more about the word of God than I did before my investigation, but I've just scratched the surface.

I evaluate your views by the results of your "investigation," and they seem to have veered away from the Bible's truths that I have gleaned from the Bible's own assumptions as a whole. I can say that angels visit us to help us from God but that it's questionable that other events that you have experienced are all from God. Your resolving of "Bible mysteries that nobody else has" sounds like the sin of pride, I don't know.

Why do you think that you have the right or ability to resolve those mysteries with God's approval? It is there that I fear you have gone off the rails from true Bible interpretation, since God has not revealed everything we are curious about in the Bible. And if you think you have received added revelation to the Bible, you could start a cult, because cult leaders have wrongly claimed the same thing. We need humility to understand that we are not on God's level and that we need to submit to the mysteries of the Bible.

Daniel 9:24-27 is a passage I have never studied or preached on during the 27 years I was a pastor. Therefore, I have no opinion. I don't spend time studying prophecies, but instead in my retirement I write devotional Bible studies that hopefully help Christians apply the Word to their lives for their spiritual progress. I also write mystery and historical novels. God has blessed me with his guidance in being a published author.