Did Christ die for them that are perishing ?

[brightfame52]

You deny that scripture states man can turn away from God?

No I havent. Im saying no one Christ died for can perish in their sins. When men are enemies, hating God, turned away from God, they are nevertheless reconciled to God by His Death. Rom 5:10

Prov 1 32

For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

Thats just sinful behaviour Christ died for. If Christ reconciled someone by His Death, their sinful behaviour isnt imputed to them 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So again

You have denied that sinners Christ died for are reconciled/legally saved] by His death even while they are unbelievers/enemies Rom 5:10

 

[Lamb]

No I havent. Im saying no one Christ died for can perish in their sins. When men are enemies, hating God, turned away from God, they are nevertheless reconciled to God by His Death. Rom 5:10

Prov 1 32

For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

Thats just sinful behaviour Christ died for. If Christ reconciled someone by His Death, their sinful behaviour isnt imputed to them 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So again

You have denied that sinners Christ died for are reconciled/legally saved] by His death even while they are unbelievers/enemies Rom 5:10

I believe that man call fall from faith and lose his salvation. That's what the scripture verses I've quoted have warned against.

 

[brightfame52]

I believe that man call fall from faith and lose his salvation. That's what the scripture verses I've quoted have warned against.

Then you condition salvation on man and not the death of Christ and the grace of God. Them He died for are reconciled to God while enemies, they have no sin charged to them, and Christs death has perfected them forever. Heb 10:14

 

[Lamb]

Then you condition salvation on man and not the death of Christ and the grace of God. Them He died for are reconciled to God while enemies, they have no sin charged to them, and Christs death has perfected them forever. Heb 10:14

Not true. Salvation is God's doing 100%. Damnation is man's fault,

 

[brightfame52]

Not true. Salvation is God's doing 100%. Damnation is man's fault,

Thats why Christ has to save and does save His People from their sins, from perishing for their sins, their faults and transgressions, you deny Christ has done that by His death for them. He died for their faults ! 2 Cor 5:19


to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses/faults, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[Lamb]

Thats why Christ has to save and does save His People from their sins, from perishing for their sins, their faults and transgressions, you deny Christ has done that by His death for them. He died for their faults ! 2 Cor 5:19


to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses/faults, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

I don't deny Christ died for all. God has said that we can reject His gifts and you deny that. Looks like we're at a standstill.

 

[brightfame52]

I don't deny Christ died for all. God has said that we can reject His gifts and you deny that. Looks like we're at a standstill.

You deny Christs death saves from sin, saves them He died for from perishing because of their sins. No Christ Gift of reconciliation cant be rejected because its a done deal while they are hating and rejecting Him, even enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Do you deny reconciliation to God is a Gift ?

 

[brightfame52]

Heb 10:14 By one offering he hath perfected for ever

Heb 10:14 By one offering he hath perfected for ever, which includes the doing away with unbelief !

The religious teachers, many of them teach that Christ did not die for the sin of unbelief, but that is another lie. If Christ did not die for that sin, and believing in Christ is something man does apart from Christ's satisfying God's law and Justice on our behalf for our sins, then we are saved by something we did apart from the atonement of Christ's satisfaction, if its true that Christ did not die for unbelief !

However, the sin of unbelief along with all other sins have been paid for by Christ's Death for all whom He died, and they are before God's Law and Justice perfected forever !

For unbelief did not prevent Paul from being saved by Christ's Death from His Testimony here 1 Tim 1:12-16


12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Paul testifies to the Grace of God saving Him out of and in spite of His Ignorance and Unbelief, which all of God's Elect are in at first Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all[The Elect] in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

But back to Heb 10:14, by His Death [alone] He hath perfected [perfect passive participle] forever all whom are being sanctified, that are in a sanctified state ! This means that everyone Christ died for, that even though as others by nature, they are children of wrath, nevertheless unlike them, they are at the same time in a state of sanctification by Christ's Blood Heb 10:10, for the passover Lamb has been slain for them. They are all like Jeremiah 1:5 He was sanctified before he came out of his Mothers womb by the Purpose of God, but that said, he was still born like other men of his day, by nature a child of wrath, a sinner, and needed to be experientially reconciled to God like this Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled !

All of God's Elect will experience this reconciliation because of the perfection of the Death of Christ which this is the fruit of !

 

[Lamb]

God's word says that if man repents, turning back to Him, there will be forgiveness (that was won at the cross). But scripture also warns of what happens because man turns away in unbelief.

 

[brightfame52]

God's word says that if man repents, turning back to Him, there will be forgiveness (that was won at the cross). But scripture also warns of what happens because man turns away in unbelief.

Thats false, forgiveness and repentance comes from the risen Christ who died for their sins Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Unbelief is forgiven because Christ died for it, thats why people Christ died for are reconciled to God even while being unbelievers,enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Do you deny that these were reconciled to God while being unbelievers ?

 

[Lamb]

Thats false, forgiveness and repentance comes from the risen Christ who died for their sins Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Unbelief is forgiven because Christ died for it, thats why people Christ died for are reconciled to God even while being unbelievers,enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Do you deny that these were reconciled to God while being unbelievers ?

Of course forgiveness and repentance comes from the Lord. Scripture still states that man can turn away.

 

[brightfame52]

Of course forgiveness and repentance comes from the Lord. Scripture still states that man can turn away.

Not anyone Christ died for can turn away, and all the sins one Christ died for have been forgiven, they are not charged to them. All men turned away in Adam isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

But God in Christ heals them Isa 53:5

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Christ heals their backsliding, turning away Hos 14:4

I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.

And they will not depart from God Jer 32:40


And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

So if you believe a True saved person can turn away from God, you calling God a liar and making Christs healing death of non effect.

 

[Lamb]

Not anyone Christ died for can turn away, and all the sins one Christ died for have been forgiven, they are not charged to them. All men turned away in Adam isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

But God in Christ heals them Isa 53:5

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Christ heals their backsliding, turning away Hos 14:4

I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.

And they will not depart from God Jer 32:40


And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

So if you believe a True saved person can turn away from God, you calling God a liar and making Christs healing death of non effect.

I gave verses showing that man can turn away from faith in Jesus and damn himself. I told you also that we're at a standstill on this. I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me.

 

[brightfame52]

I gave verses showing that man can turn away from faith in Jesus and damn himself. I told you also that we're at a standstill on this. I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me.

No you didnt, its impossible for a true believer to turn away from Christ, they have been healed from that 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

His death heals turning away, sin Hos 14:4

4 I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.

The word backsliding is the word mᵊšûḇâ:

1. turning away, turning back, apostasy, backsliding

Thats what healing from Christs stripes/death accomplishes as 1 Pet 2:24-25 sets forth, so what you believe is totally against Christ and His healing death.

You are saying that sin defeats Christ,may God have mercy on you !

 

[brightfame52]

By His Stripes Ye are Healed !

1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

By His Stripes ye are Healed. The Death of Christ here is clearly stated by the inspired writer, the Apostle to be the Sole and Meritorious Cause of Being Healed. That is His Stripes provided the Eternal Benefit of perfectly Healing those whom Christ died for from all sin in God's Sight ! Col 1:22

In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Thats why by His Death alone He hath Perfected forever they who are sanctified Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

This is by ONE OFFERING, not by the Work of the Spirit, but BY the OFFERING of His Body , when He bare Our sins in His Own Body on the Tree 1 Pet 2:24.

The Healing is also pointed out by the OT writer who was shown the Covenant benefit of the Death of Christ Ps 103:2-3

Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:

3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

Yes, that is a benefit of the Death of Christ alone, for those He died for, all their sins are forgiven, a clean slate, as though they never sinned.

Remission of sins is by the Blood of Christ alone before God's Sight !

Those false teachers who teach that Christ death in and of itself does not Justify one or that its Worthless, they are not of God !

 

[Lamb]

Those false teachers who teach that Christ death in and of itself does not Justify one or that its Worthless, they are not of God !

Scriptures teach that we can turn away from Him. I've said it before and I guess we'll keep going on and on until 20 pages happen of the same things?

 

[brightfame52]

Scriptures teach that we can turn away from Him. I've said it before and I guess we'll keep going on and on until 20 pages happen of the same things?

You deny the healing death of Christ. Thats not good

 

[Lamb]

You deny the healing death of Christ. Thats not good

I don't deny that Christ will heal. The unrepentant do not receive salvation.

“Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons” 1 Timothy 4:1

That verse shows that they had true faith and then turned away. God allows that.

 

[brightfame52]

The Lord Jesus Christ's death is a saving Death, the benefits of His redeeming gives both Faith and Repentance to those He died for, His Church. That Faith is a gift of God given by Christ to those that He saves, that He is their Saviour, it is seen in that He gives Repentance to Israel, His Elect out of both jews and gentiles Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

You see that ? God exalted Him with His Right Hand, TO BE A PRINCE AND SAVIOUR, for to GIVE REPENTANCE !

Folks Christ is not a Saviour without giving Repentance to Israel and not just ethnic jews, but that Israel of God made up of both jews and gentiles Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Now in this sense Repentance and Faith are the same, Two sides of one Coin, for Repentance in its widest significance is a change of mind, and then embracing something that has been newly revealed, in which case, True Repentance is a changing of our mind from seeking salvation by our own righteousness, our works and conditions, and embracing the Righteousness of God being made known to one from Faith to Faith through the Gospel Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So when scripture states that God gives Repentance or the Saviour Christ gives Repentance, Faith is automatically included or its not genuine Repentance, and so the Apostles often Preached both hand and hand Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Because these both were given to those being saved by the Cross !

 

[brightfame52]

I don't deny that Christ will heal. The unrepentant do not receive salvation.

“Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons” 1 Timothy 4:1

That verse shows that they had true faith and then turned away. God allows that.

The healing death of Christ gives repentance, causes it. You deny that !