Did Christ die for them that are perishing ?

[Lamb]

@Lamb



Thats false because its only partially true. Sure there are benefits the saved will receive in the future in the glorified state, but they received reconciliation[were reconciled to God] by His death in their unconverted state. Thats plainly stated Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Why is this benefit/blessing being overlooked, minimized or denied ?

Full salvation is only after death or when Christ comes again. We can say we are "saved" and we can say God forgives us and reconciles us.

Do you reject the scriptures that state that man can reject God?

 

[brightfame52]

Full salvation is only after death or when Christ comes again. We can say we are "saved" and we can say God forgives us and reconciles us.

Do you reject the scriptures that state that man can reject God?

Thats false because its only partially true. Sure there are benefits the saved will receive in the future in the glorified state, but they received reconciliation[were reconciled to God] by His death in their unconverted state. Thats plainly stated Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Why is this benefit/blessing being overlooked, minimized or denied ?

God has reconciled to Himself by Christ Death them who reject Him. So you wrong. Being reconciled while enemies means when rejecting and even hating God

 

[brightfame52]

In fact Christs death prevents one from perishing,its the catalyst for Salvation by Grace and Grace brings with it the gift of faith so that a man will believe he is saved by God alone. Faith attends Grace, the saved believes because of Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

 

[brightfame52]

Grace is of God and believing is of God, “Who BY HIM do believe in God, that raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God” (1 Pet. 1:21). Faith is by Him, as grace is by Him, as all of salvation is by Him.

 

[Lamb]

The bible teaches that man can fall away and reject God. (Luke 8:13; 1 Corinthians 10:12; Galatians 5:4; 1 Timothy 1:19-20; 2 Peter 3:17).

 

[brightfame52]

The bible teaches that man can fall away and reject God. (Luke 8:13; 1 Corinthians 10:12; Galatians 5:4; 1 Timothy 1:19-20; 2 Peter 3:17).

Not no one Jesus died for, those He died for are saved legally, reconciled to God while being enemies, hating God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why is this benefit/blessing being overlooked, minimized or denied ?

If it depends on the exercise of fidelity - meaning faith that not only persists but also works for the betterment of others in the body of Christ and those who are being called into the body of Christ - then it is no denial to say that without faith it is impossible to please God.

 

[Lamb]

Luke 8: 13
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.


God allows man to fall away...Adam and Eve were perfect, yet God allowed them to sin.

 

[brightfame52]

If it depends on the exercise of fidelity - meaning faith that not only persists but also works for the betterment of others in the body of Christ and those who are being called into the body of Christ - then it is no denial to say that without faith it is impossible to please God.

Huh ? What are you saying ?

 

[brightfame52]

Luke 8: 13
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.


God allows man to fall away...Adam and Eve were perfect, yet God allowed them to sin.

Christ died for their sins in Rom 5:10 which reconciled them to God. Sin isnt charged or imputed to the reconciled, thats a Gospel Truth 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[Lamb]

Christ died for their sins in Rom 5:10 which reconciled them to God. Sin isnt charged or imputed to the reconciled, thats a Gospel Truth 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

I'm not denying what Christ did. I'm telling you that scriptures tells us that man can reject God and His gifts...it started with Adam and Eve.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Huh ? What are you saying ?

If the benefits of salvation hinge on the practice of fidelity - which entails a faith that endures and actively contributes to the betterment of others within the body of Christ, as well as those being drawn into it - then it is undeniable that without faith, it is impossible to please God.

---

Background context:

You wrote this, and I replied to it's last remark, namely, "Why is this benefit/blessing being overlooked, minimized or denied ?"

Thats false because its only partially true. Sure there are benefits the saved will receive in the future in the glorified state, but they received reconciliation[were reconciled to God] by His death in their unconverted state. Thats plainly stated Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Why is this benefit/blessing being overlooked, minimized or denied ?

 

[brightfame52]

I'm not denying what Christ did. I'm telling you that scriptures tells us that man can reject God and His gifts...it started with Adam and Eve.

Im telling you Christ died for that sin of rejecting God and His Gifts, and are still reconciled to God, legally saved. Nothing is laid to their charge. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

enemies is the greek word ἐχθροὶ:

used of men as at enmity with God by their sin

1. hated, odious, hateful
2. opposing (God) in the mind
3. a man that is hostile
4. a certain enemy
5. the hostile one

They still reconciled to God

 

[brightfame52]

@MoreCoffee

If the benefits of salvation hinge on the practice of fidelity -

It doesnt, and I never said that. A person Christ died for is reconciled to God by it, while they hate and oppose God, so they still have the benefit of being reconciled.

 

[brightfame52]

Heb 10:14 By one offering he hath perfected for ever

Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

It must be also that all for whom Christ died, by His Offering alone, apart from any work of the Spirit on them or in them, that by this one One Offering, they are Justified forever, because by it they are perfected forever, and within this perfection there is not one of their sins not punished in Christ for them, to include the sin of unbelief !

The word perfected here means:

to make perfect, complete

to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end

to complete (perfect)

add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full

to be found perfect to bring to the end (goal) proposed

to accomplish

bring to a close or fulfilment by event

of the prophecies of the scriptures

Now remember, the Author is speaking about the Effects of the Death of Christ, and that it [Christ's Offering alone] Perfected those who are sanctified.

Now what does this mean ?

It means that Christ has perfectly fulfilled the Law for them ! He obeyed all of its Precepts Perfectly, not for Himself, but for them, Before God's Law and Justice !

Next, He has perfectly atoned for their sins, took them out of the way,absolved them before God's Law and Justice, perfectly.Cleansed them as Per Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Also, He obtained forgiveness of all our sins ,Perfectly, past, present and future, for all the Elect of all time !

We have by virtue of His Offering been Justified from all things Acts 13:39

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Not their believing Justified them from all things, But Christ, by His Offering, which we come to believe when that fact is Revealed to us !

All this was accomplished solely by the Offering of Christ for all whom He died, before and apart from but not to omit or cast aside, the Work of the Spirit and the Faith of the Believer ! 10

 

[Lamb]

Reminding you of the verses that say we can fall away:

1 Corinthians 10:12 Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

Galatians 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified1 by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

1 Timothy 1: 19-20 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

2 Peter 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.

 

[brightfame52]

Reminding you of the verses that say we can fall away:

1 Corinthians 10:12 Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

Galatians 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified1 by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

1 Timothy 1: 19-20 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

2 Peter 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.

Those whom Christ died for are perfected forever. No matter what, Christs death has made them perfect forever,nothing can undo Christs perfect work see post 35

 

[Lamb]

Those whom Christ died for are perfected forever. No matter what, Christs death has made them perfect forever,nothing can undo Christs perfect work see post 35

So you deny the scripture I posted.

 

[brightfame52]

So you deny the scripture I posted.

No I havent, its you who deny scripture I posted. You have denied that sinners Christ died for are reconciled/legally saved] by His death even while they are unbelievers/enemies Rom 5:10

Now it appears you deny that sinners Christ died for have been perfected forever Heb 10:14

These scriptures prove no one He died for shall perish in their sins.

 

[Lamb]

No I havent, its you who deny scripture I posted. You have denied that sinners Christ died for are reconciled/legally saved] by His death even while they are unbelievers/enemies Rom 5:10

Now it appears you deny that sinners Christ died for have been perfected forever Heb 10:14

These scriptures prove no one He died for shall perish in their sins.

You deny that scripture states man can turn away from God?