God Told Me

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What do you think about the people who claim that God told them something directly? How do you tell that person that their discussion goes against scripture? If they have believers, how do you convince them that God really didn't tell them...?
 

Albion

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I usually find that they cannot be reached. They have convinced themselves that anyone who doubts or questions them is just close-minded or, sadly enough, is one of the many who have gone with the crowd and are content with some easy version of establishment Christianity.
 

tango

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What do you think about the people who claim that God told them something directly? How do you tell that person that their discussion goes against scripture? If they have believers, how do you convince them that God really didn't tell them...?

It really depends on the context.

If we believe that we can have an individual calling it's reasonable to say that "God called me to...", which can sometimes be a roundabout way of saying "God told me to..."

The key difference is the scope of the thing that God allegedly told them. If I believe God called me (aka told me) to do something, and that something is consistent with Scripture, it's ultimately up to me whether to heed or ignore the call. If I believe God told me that Scripture means something it quite clearly doesn't mean, or that God told me what you should be doing, then the scope broadens beyond what someone should just accept.

The Scriptural call to "test all things, hold fast what is true" would seem to apply. Maybe God did tell me that you are called to do something, but if I expect you to just get busy obeying without testing then there's a real problem. If God really did tell me that you are called to do something then God is quite capable of either preparing you to hear from me, or preparing enough other people to present the same message that you will be convinced.
 

tango

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What do you think about the people who claim that God told them something directly? How do you tell that person that their discussion goes against scripture? If they have believers, how do you convince them that God really didn't tell them...?

It really depends on the context.

If we believe that we can have an individual calling it's reasonable to say that "God called me to...", which can sometimes be a roundabout way of saying "God told me to..."

The key difference is the scope of the thing that God allegedly told them. If I believe God called me (aka told me) to do something, and that something is consistent with Scripture, it's ultimately up to me whether to heed or ignore the call. If I believe God told me that Scripture means something it quite clearly doesn't mean, or that God told me what you should be doing, then the scope broadens beyond what someone should just accept.

The Scriptural call to "test all things, hold fast what is true" would seem to apply. Maybe God did tell me that you are called to do something, but if I expect you to just get busy obeying without testing then there's a real problem. If God really did tell me that you are called to do something then God is quite capable of either preparing you to hear from me, or preparing enough other people to present the same message that you will be convinced.
 

NewCreation435

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What do you think about the people who claim that God told them something directly? How do you tell that person that their discussion goes against scripture? If they have believers, how do you convince them that God really didn't tell them...?
I don't think I would try to confront them. I would encourage the person to stay in God's word and pray about it.
 

Soulx3

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What do you think about the people who claim that God told them something directly? How do you tell that person that their discussion goes against scripture? If they have believers, how do you convince them that God really didn't tell them...?

What you're saying is, in every case where someone claims that God audibly spoke to them, excluding those in Scripture, it didn't happen.

However, nowhere in Scripture did Jesus say that He, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, would cease to audibly speak to, or through, His own creation. Does this mean that every claim that God audibly told someone this or that is true? No, but some are. We are told to examine everthing and hold to what is good, and refrain from evil (1 Thess. 5:19-22), and that you shall know them by their fruit: good tree bears good fruit, and a bad tree bears bad fruit (Matt. 7:15-20).
 
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Albion

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What you're saying is, in every case where someone claims that God audibly spoke to them, excluding those in Scripture, it didn't happen.

However, nowhere in Scripture did Jesus say that He, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, would cease to audibly speak to, or through, His own creation. Does this mean that every claim that God audibly told someone this or that is true? No, but some are.
Not necessarily. It is more likely that none of them are.
 

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Not necessarily. It is more likely that none of them are.

Why do you say it's more likely that God does't audibly speak to, or through His creation?
 

Albion

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Why do you say it's more likely that God does't audibly speak to, or through His creation?
I didn't say that. Rather, I was responding to your comment that of all those who have claimed God spoke to them in an audible way (and gave information not found in the Scriptures or Tradition), some are not genuine but that some are. You have chosen to believe the story told by one of them., but that doesn't prove anything about her revelations.
 

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I didn't say that. Rather, I was responding to your comment that of all those who have claimed God spoke to them in an audible way (and gave information not found in the Scriptures or Tradition), some are not genuine but that some are.

I didn't say what you put in parenthesis, but I did say that some people's claims that God has audibly spoken to, or through them are true, just as some are false. You said it's more likely that none such claims are true. That means you think it's more likely that God does't audibly speak to, or through His creation. So, I'm back to asking you why?

You have chosen to believe the story told by one of them, but that doesn't prove anything about her revelations.

You're referring to Maria Valtorta, and yes I believe she was a spokesperson of Jesus, further validated by the professors, doctors, etc., who've read and studied her writings in-depth. Below are just a few of those studies:

(I) The results from the mathematical analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:

In conclusion, what do these findings mean? That Maria Valtorta is such a good writer to be able to modulate the linguistic parameters in so many different ways and as a function of character of the plot and type of literary text, so as to cover almost the entire range of the Italian literature? Or that visions and dictations really occurred and she was only a mystical, very intelligent and talented “writing tool”? Of course, no answer grounded in science can be given to the latter question.

(II) The results from the astronomical and meteorological analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:

“It seems that she has written down observations and facts that really happened at the time of Jesus’ life, as a real witness of them would have done. The question arises, unsolved from a point of view exclusively rational, how all this is possible because what Maria Valtorta writes down cannot, in any way, be traced back to her fantasy or to her astronomical and meteorological knowledge. In conclusion, if from one hand the scientific inquire has evidenced all the surprising and unexpected results reported and discussed in this paper, on the other hand our actual scientific knowledge cannot readily explain how these results are possible.”

(III) In David Webster, M.Div.'s chapter "Proof by Geography and Topography and Archaeology" of A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work, he relates:

“An additional line of incontrovertible evidence (which Valtorta was encouraged by Jesus to include for the benefit of “the difficult doctors” of the Church) deals with the vast amount of geographical, climatic, agricultural, historical, astronomical, and cartographical information given in her work. Authorities in these fields have verified the accuracy of what she has reported with appropriate astonishment. Valtorta accurately identifies this agricultural and climatic information that is often unique to Palestine with the appropriate calendar period which she often specifically identifies. Without any evidence of planning and with hardly any corrections, Valtorta ends up with a perfectly flowing 3½ year story line with Jesus appropriately in Jerusalem and Judea for Passover and Pentecost in all four spring seasons, and at the Tabernacles in all three fall seasons of His ministry. Valtorta shows Jesus to have traversed the land of Palestine from one end to another in at least six cycles (some 4,000 miles), ministering in some 350 named locations, including places in Palestine known only to specialized archaeologists. Not once, however, does she have Jesus (or any one of the other 500 characters) in a place inconsistent with either the story line or distance or timing necessities.”

(IV) In professional engineer Jean-François Lavère's The Valtorta Enigma, he writes:

“The work [The Poem of the Man-God] overflows with exact data from the viewpoint of history, topography, architecture, geography, ethnology, chronology, etc. Furthermore, Maria Valtorta often provides precise details known only by some scholars, and in certain cases, she even records details totally unknown at the time she recorded them, and which archeology, history, or science have later confirmed.”

I could go on.

So, there's plenty of evidence to lead one to the belief that Maria Valtorta was a spokesperson of Jesus, but they're only in their own way from believing by simply not wanting to.
 
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Albion

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I didn't say what you put in parenthesis, but I did say that some people's claims that God has audibly spoken to, or through them are true, just as some are false. You said it's more likely that none such claims are true. That means you think it's more likely that God does't audibly speak to, or through His creation. So, I'm back to asking you why?
Why need he have done that? After all, we have Scripture and Tradition, both of which are available to all people throughout the ages.

That's not the case with claims made by a lone person saying that he or she has something that usually can't be verified and has been available to very few people.
You're referring to Maria Valtorta, and yes I believe she was a spokesperson of Jesus,
As I said, that's your personal decision. As such, it doesn't rank with the sources that the Christian churches have always looked to for guidance.
 

Soulx3

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Why need he have done that? After all, we have Scripture and Tradition, both of which are available to all people throughout the ages.

So, the reason you say that its more likely God does't audibly speak to, or through His creation, is because you think He has nothing to say...
What did you read, if anything, to make you think that?

That's not the case with claims made by a lone person saying that he or she has something that usually can't be verified and has been available to very few people.

What "something that cant be verified?" What do you mean by "available to very few people?"

As I said, that's your personal decision. As such, it doesn't rank with the sources that the Christian churches have always looked to for guidance.

What Christian churches are you referring? What sources that have always looked to for guidance are you referring?
 

Albion

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So, the reason you say that its more likely God does't audibly speak to, or through His creation, is because you think He has nothing to say...
What did you read, if anything, to make you think that?
I don't think that.
What "something that cant be verified?"
Hardly anyone has so much as heard of Maria Valtorta while the Bible is the most-read and discussed book in the world.
What do you mean by "available to very few people?"
See the above.
What Christian churches are you referring? What sources that have always looked to for guidance are you referring?
Virtually every Christian denomination in the world bases its doctrines on Scripture Alone or Scripture with Tradition.
 

Soulx3

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I don't think that.

If that's true, then you agree that God does and will continue to audibly speak to whomever whenever He wills?

Hardly anyone has so much as heard of Maria Valtorta while the Bible is the most-read and discussed book in the world.

Where are you getting "hardly anyone" has heard of Maria Valtorta? And, Scripture has been around for thousands of years, whereas Jesus started speaking to Maria Valtorta in 1943, and what He said and showed her wasn't published and made available to the public not even a hundred years ago yet, and it took more than a hundred years for Scripture to spread across the whole world, and there are still people who don't know about it yet.

Virtually every Christian denomination in the world bases its doctrines on Scripture Alone or Scripture with Tradition.

So, if Jesus chooses you to be a spokesperson of His, and He may, will you obey Him or not?
 
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tango

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Not necessarily. It is more likely that none of them are.

I don't know that I'd say none of them but as soon as someone speaks very forcefully in terms of "God told me that...", as opposed to something presented with more humility such as "I think God might be saying that...." I'd be inclined to immediately suspect they are making it up.

Limited examples don't prove a point by any means but hearing things like a woman saying how "God had told her to leave her husband" don't do much to encourage faith in such utterings.
 

Soulx3

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I don't know that I'd say none of them but as soon as someone speaks very forcefully in terms of "God told me that...", as opposed to something presented with more humility such as "I think God might be saying that...." I'd be inclined to immediately suspect they are making it up.

Limited examples don't prove a point by any means but hearing things like a woman saying how "God had told her to leave her husband" don't do much to encourage faith in such utterings.

Interesting you bring that up, because Jesus dictated the following to Maria Valtorta about humility and true and false disciples on September 30, 1943.

Jesus says:

«It is the sign which distinguishes between my true and false disciples.

True disciples” do not long to be known as more than the others. Humble like their Master and like my most sweet Mother, they conceal their supernatural powers under the clothing of ordinary life. Suffering is for them to see their true nature uncovered, and, if it were possible to obtain it, they would like no one to realize or, above all, talk about it.

The “false disciples”, on the other hand, elevate themselves, celebrate themselves, and attract everyone’s attention to their acts and to themselves; the former and the latter are equally hypocritical. With false humility they contrive so as to oblige others to see them in the light that pleases them—that is, in a light of holiness which is instead a twofold sin of deceit and pride.

But, my daughter, as a paper flower differs from a real one, so the false disciples differ from the real ones. They can deceive those who look superficially, but do not deceive those approaching them with attention.

In addition—know this—upon the one who is another little Me, living in Me and acting for Me to such a degree, there remains a sign which souls perceive. Souls, I said. It is useless to regret the fact that others realize it. The soul possessed by God exhales a perfume and a light which are of God, of God living in it. And you know that perfume and light escape every lock when they are intense. And what light and perfume can be more intense than those of God? Now, if human sight and smell—that is, limited—manage to perceive light and perfumes even if they are tightly enclosed, do you want the soul, whose sensitivity is not human, but spiritual, not to perceive the smell of God and the light of God living in a heart?

I have already told you on other occasions that you, my beloved ones, are light and balm in the world and perfume your brothers and sisters with Me and transmit my Light, which is in you, to them. And, then, why are you surprised? Let the world, the good world and also the less good one, say, 'You are a daughter of God.' This also serves to lead people to Me. Be 'Mary" in this, too, and utter your Magnificat. Mary did not exalt Herself in the pride of praise of others, but neither did She deny the great things which God was doing in Her.

Let Maria—that is, you—never exalt Herself. Like a flower under the sun, let her allow others to see that the Sun embraces her and humbly say, 'I am beautiful because of your grace,' and charitably give to all the joy which God places in her with his caress of light and perfume of truth. And let her do all of this while imitating my silence and Mary's. The holy virtue of being able to remain silent! Silence, Maria, speaks more than all words when it is the silence of love.»
 
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tango

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Interesting you bring that up, because Jesus dictated the following to Maria Valtorta about humility and true and false disciples on September 30, 1943.

Posting something that I happen to at least partly agree with doesn't confirm that it was spoken by God as directly as you claim.
 

Soulx3

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Posting something that I happen to at least partly agree with doesn't confirm that it was spoken by God as directly as you claim.

You brought up something that Jesus confirmed to be true, so I just shared what He said about it. Do what you will with it.
 

tango

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You brought up something that Jesus confirmed to be true, so I just shared what He said about it. Do what you will with it.

I brought up something that someone claiming to speak for Jesus confirmed to be true.
 

Soulx3

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I brought up something that someone claiming to speak for Jesus confirmed to be true.

You brought up something that Jesus talked about on September 30th, 1943, confirming about there being humility in true disciples, so I just shared what He said about it. Do what you will with it.
 
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