Trump Guilty on all counts

[Lanman87]

Does this cost him the election?

Will a majority of Republicans vote for someone who has been convicted of a felony by a jury of his peers?

If he wasn't named Donald Trump the charges never would have been filed against him. However, I do believe he was guilty of the charges.

 

[Lamb]

Does this cost him the election?

Will a majority of Republicans vote for someone who has been convicted of a felony by a jury of his peers?

If he wasn't named Donald Trump the charges never would have been filed against him. However, I do believe he was guilty of the charges.

This will make Republicans fight to take back the country even more.

 

[Josiah]

IMO, it will just galvanize the country still more....


.

 

[tango]

IMO, it will just galvanize the country still more....


.

You're probably right. If he had been a senior Democrat you can be sure it would have quietly gone away.

In unrelated news, apparently some guy named Hunter has some issues with the taxman and potential felony gun charges. I'm sure it's nothing though, it never is.

ETA: It's hard to see the people who support Trump, or who vote Republican even if they don't care much for Trump, suddenly deciding that what they really want is another four years of Biden.

 

[NewCreation435]

I think this will only impact some independent voters who were thinking of voting for Trump and not hard core Republicans.
Now, he couldn't even get clearance to look at the classified documents that he took back to Florida with him.
Or even vote for himself.

 

[Lamb]

I think this will only impact some independent voters who were thinking of voting for Trump and not hard core Republicans.
Now, he couldn't even get clearance to look at the classified documents that he took back to Florida with him.
Or even vote for himself.

Wasn't that the Democrat plan all along?

 

[Lanman87]

I think this will only impact some independent voters who were thinking of voting for Trump and not hard core Republicans.
Now, he couldn't even get clearance to look at the classified documents that he took back to Florida with him.
Or even vote for himself.

I agree with this. It only makes MAGA mad and they will turn out in droves. However, Republicans who would hold their nose and vote for Trump and Independents who just don't want to deal with another 4 years of Trump drama will probably just sit this one out. If only 3-5% sit this one out then it will probably cost Trump the election. It will depend on how many democrats sit this one out because they don't like Biden.

With all the mail in vote harvesting any Republican would need 55% of the vote in a swing state to win the state. With that in mind I think this will cost Trump Pennsylvania, Michigan, Nevada, Wisconsin, and maybe even North Carolina. I think Georgia and Arizona stay with Trump.

Of course, it is early in the election season and a lot of things can happen over the next 5 months to change the dynamics of the race.

 

[Albion]

Does this cost him the election?

Will a majority of Republicans vote for someone who has been convicted of a felony by a jury of his peers?

Absolutely. That's conditioned on the fact that the trial was a set-up and most people will easily realize that's the case. Had it instead been something like embezzlement or murder where the charges were clear, there was evidence, and the trial and judge were normal, it might be as you say. Not in this case, though.

 

[Lanman87]

Absolutely. That's conditioned on the fact that the trial was a set-up and most people will easily realize that's the case. Had it instead been something like embezzlement or murder where the charges were clear, there was evidence, and the trial and judge were normal, it might be as you say. Not in this case, though.

There is know doubt in my mind that if his name had been Bob Smith, he had been the CEO of a Fortune 500 Company, and he used company funds to pay off a call girl so the shareholders wouldn't find out, that the DA would have seen the time and money to bring charges as a waste of taxpayer dollars.

I also think if he was a Democrat who did the same thing in the same district, that no charges would have been filed.

I also think that if a Democrat Candidate did the same thing in a Republican district (with a Republican DA and Judge) that the same thing would have happened in reverse. And that Democrat supporters would be outraged instead of Republican.

It is the nature of politics to use whatever means are available to smear and raise doubt about the opponent.

However, I do think he was guilty of the charges.

The funny thing is, if he had just wrote her a check himself to her keep quite then he wouldn't have broken any laws.

 

[Albion]

There is know doubt in my mind that if his name had been Bob Smith, he had been the CEO of a Fortune 500 Company, and he used company funds to pay off a call girl so the shareholders wouldn't find out, that the DA would have seen the time and money to bring charges as a waste of taxpayer dollars.

I also think if he was a Democrat who did the same thing in the same district, that no charges would have been filed.

Probably so.

I also think that if a Democrat Candidate did the same thing in a Republican district (with a Republican DA and Judge) that the same thing would have happened in reverse.

But it never has.

And that Democrat supporters would be outraged instead of Republican.

It is the nature of politics to use whatever means are available to smear and raise doubt about the opponent.

Well, no. We have never convicted a president or former president of any felony.

However, I do think he was guilty of the charges.

What WERE those charges, do you think? I saw two different news channels report different crimes that Trump had supposedly been found guilty of. Most of the commentators, journalists, and so on say that the judge directed the jury to convict Trump--if they were going to do that--for whatever charge appealed to them individually, and that there need not be agreement among the jurors on what the defendant had done wrong.

 

[tango]

This is an interesting article about the loss of legitimacy in the justice system

The End of Legitimacy | Schiff Sovereign

On August 4, 2017, the most hated person in the world was sentenced to seven years in prison. You may remember the case: his name is Martin Shkreli. Shkreli had quite infamously taken over a…

www.schiffsovereign.com

 

[Lanman87]

Well, no. We have never convicted a president or former president of any felony.

The reason no candidate has ever been convicted of anything has to do with more lack of opportunity than anything else. I'm sure many Presidential Candidates and Presidents are guilty of far worse, but nobody from the opposing party had the time and opportunity to pursue charges. The Democrats in NYC saw an opportunity to embarrass and harass the leading Republican Candidate and took the opportunity. It may work or it may backfire. Time will tell.

What WERE those charges, do you think?

I think he directed his lawyer to pay Stormy Daniels to keep quite and then either directed or approved making the books look like it was a legit expense in order to hide the payment and his involvement. Not exactly earth shattering stuff. But apparently it is against the law.

If he had just came out and admitted the affair with Daniels , showed remorse, and claimed to have been a changed man, he probably would have won anyway. As I've often heard. "It's not the crime it's the cover up".

If he didn't have a fling with Daniels he should have denied it. stuck to his guns, and told her to prove it. But I think it is pretty clear that he did have a fling with Daniels.

 

[Albion]

Will a majority of Republicans vote for someone who has been convicted of a felony by a jury of his peers?

Certainly. The question should actually be whether more of them will vote for him than were planning to do so prior to the court's decision.

In addition, how this sensational and unexpected turn of events affects the Third Parties is an issue in itself. There are five such parties/candidates of significance: RFK Jr, Stine, Cornel West, Chase Oliver, and Randall Terry. All but the last one are left-of-center politicians who therefore might attract votes that otherwise would have gone to Biden.

 

[Albion]

The reason no candidate has ever been convicted of anything has to do with more lack of opportunity than anything else.

What historical moments do you have in mind? The idea that the opposition party never had any opportunity to prosecute even a former president appears to be without any basis.

I'm sure many Presidential Candidates and Presidents are guilty of far worse, but nobody from the opposing party had the time and opportunity to pursue charges.

You're guessing there. Or hoping.

 

[Lanman87]

You're guessing there. Or hoping.

I'm saying it was either not possible or not politically advantageous. Do you honestly think that if Bill Clinton (both before and after being President) was put under the same scrutiny that DJT has been under, that someone wouldn't have found something he did that could have brought a conviction. If you dig hard enough you can find something to charge just about anyone with.

Trump was the victim of a witch hunt. I'm not denying that. The charges against him were dubious at best. If he was guilty of falsifying business records then it should have been a misdemeanor.

The real question in my mind is about how it will effect the election in November. No doubt he will get a lot of sympathy from those who see this is weaponizing the judicial system for political purposes. At the same time, there is a lot of independents and republicans who do not like Trump but are/were leaning toward Trump just because of how horrible Biden has been. Does this keep them home in November???

 

[Lees]

November isn't going to matter. The liberal democrat atheist's, and blacks, have showed there is no distance they will not go to destroy Trump. How many millions of dollars have been spent in trying to restrict and stop Trump since 2016?

Liberals, democrats, and atheists can't take another Trump Presidency. They will kill him if they have to, to stop it. You're not going to spend the time and money to stop Trump, as they have, and not be willing to assassinate him if they have to.

Will there even be an election in November? Brain dead Biden. And Trump out of the way. And of course the former sexual favors giver, Kamela Harris, ready to take the reigns. Funny, I haven't heard of her complaining of Trumps 'hush money'. Perhaps she has more than enough of her own to spend.

Oh say can you see....! That dawns early light sees more than just a flag waving.

My opinion.

Lees

 

[Albion]

I'm saying it was either not possible or not politically advantageous. Do you honestly think that if Bill Clinton (both before and after being President) was put under the same scrutiny that DJT has been under, that someone wouldn't have found something he did that could have brought a conviction. If you dig hard enough you can find something to charge just about anyone with.

Indeed, but the reason it didn't happen was because the idea of doing what as done in this case was simply a' bridge too far for our politicians, something so harmful to democratic government and the rule of law that although there were some who wanted Nixon prosecuted, for example, they didn't approach it.

But your contention that such a thing WOULD have happened except that the opponents didn't have the opportunity or the guts strikes me as baseless. There were many opportunities in our history but no one ever before wanted to behave like the so-called banana republics behave and which we Americans have always look upon with disdain.

The real question in my mind is about how it will effect the election in November. No doubt he will get a lot of sympathy from those who see this is weaponizing the judicial system for political purposes. At the same time, there is a lot of independents and republicans who do not like Trump but are/were leaning toward Trump just because of how horrible Biden has been. Does this keep them home in November???

I honestly am not sure, and suspect that it could go either way.

On the one hand, I have the hunch that this narrows the field to Biden and Trump for almost everyone. Prior to yesterday, all those people who leaned towards a third candidate wanted to promote some ideals, but now we have something on which the fate of our form of government can reasonably be thought to hang.

So...it's Trump or the other guy, not a wasted vote for some principled outsider who is known not to be able to win but for whom you might vote just because you favor some legislation, etc or admire that candidate as a person. Too much may be at stake for such ordinary thinking.

Still, we have a long way to go to election day, and all sorts of new ingredients may yet come into the stew.

 

[Lanman87]

But your contention that such a thing WOULD have happened except that the opponents didn't have the opportunity or the guts strikes me as baseless

Honestly, I just think nobody has been desperate enough to pursue this sort of action until now.

 

[tango]

It is interesting to see those on the political left claiming Trump will become a dictator if he is re-elected, all while the left is weaponising the "justice" system to neutralise their political opponents.

 

[NewCreation435]

Wasn't that the Democrat plan all along?

I think your giving the Democrats too much credit for planning all of that. What does he have something like 91 different charges against him? Biden can barely tie his shoes. Do you think he's capable of planning something like that?