Keep Religion OUT of Public Schools!

[Josiah]

I'm against religion in public schools....


I know this is an issue for a lot of American political conservatives... many of which are Christians. I've heard the mantra many times, blaming nearing everything on "Schools taking religion out of the classroom." But I don't think that's the problem.... and I'm not in favor of "putting it back."


1. WHAT religion? WHOSE religion? People ASSUME that the religion that would be put back into the secular/public classroom would be THEIR religion (and even their branch and understanding of their religion). Christianity or Judaism or Islam or Agnosticism or even (as in Florida) Satanism. It's problematic for a secular government in the USA to limit the allowed religion to be some specific religion such as traditional Catholicism or Reformed Calvinism or generic "Evangelicalism." And of course if the state said it will be Catholicism - then LOTS of folks are upset, and if they say it's Lutheranism then LOTS are upset, and if it's Satanism then LOTS are upset. I have a good friend who lives in Spain - and there it's possible to some degree because Catholicism is deeply ingrained in the culture. I have relatives in Denmark where Lutheranism is deeply ingrained - it's easier in countries like that, but even there MOST are agnostic and there are significant Muslim minorities.

2. Odds are, the STATE would create the STATE religion, the one allowed there in public/secular/state funded schools. That might not be too bad in Texas but in California? I can just image the religion textbook here! In the state where Planned Parenthood wrote the curriculum for "Family Life" classrooms! I can just see abortion made a sacrament, masturbation declared a holy act of worship, celebrations of same sex marriage, how parents are dumb and kids should obey government not parents, etc.

3. God gave responsibility for religion to PARENTS (specifically, dads). THEY are commanded to teach these things to their children. NOT the state, NOT the government, NOT someone else. Parents. Ironically, it's these "conservatives" who are going against Scripture by insisting that the STATE do it. Parents have surrendered teaching about sex (etc) and handing that over to Planned Parenthood via their kid's school... now they want to surrender teaching their kids religion to the same organizations. Parents need to STOP surrendering their GOD given responsibilities to the secular/godless government (which increasingly embraces views and values that are very unbiblical). PARENTS need to teach their kids about God..... Just as God commands. And btw, also about morality, relationships, sex and marriage, etc.

4. It's good to have the kid's school support and supplement this. That's helpful. My wife and I do that by sending our son to a Catholic school. Not only because the academics there are a LOT, LOT better than the public schools but because Christianity is central to everything at the school and traditional Christian ethics and values are integrated into everything (there are no Lutheran schools in our areas). Others do this by homeschooling (LOTS of our friends do this). Both are expensive options that many can't afford - and I understand that. SO, send your kid to the secular school - and YOU, Y.O.U. - be engaged!!!!! Discuss what they are taught! Opt out of the JUNK (legally, parents can), add godly values and ethics, add Scripture reading and true worship. BE PARENTS! Do what God commands of parents.




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[tango]

I don't have a problem with schools teaching children at least the basics of different religions. It seems to me a lot of problems are caused to people simply not understanding what other faiths believe and so assuming they believe something else. Hence you get the ideas that Muslims are just out to behead people, Christians don't care how many refugees die as long as not a single pregnancy is aborted and pagans worship the devil.

I agree that schools shouldn't be particularly promoting any one religion, for the reasons you describe above. Teaching the basics of what different faiths believe could be a matter of selecting major religions (where the definition of "major" may shift over time, depending on the prevalance of any given faith) with some local input if there happened to be a local concentration of adherents to a faith that might not ordinarily be considered major.

 

[Lees]

I'm against religion in public schools....


I know this is an issue for a lot of American political conservatives... many of which are Christians. I've heard the mantra many times, blaming nearing everything on "Schools taking religion out of the classroom." But I don't think that's the problem.... and I'm not in favor of "putting it back."


1. WHAT religion? WHOSE religion? People ASSUME that the religion that would be put back into the secular/public classroom would be THEIR religion (and even their branch and understanding of their religion). Christianity or Judaism or Islam or Agnosticism or even (as in Florida) Satanism. It's problematic for a secular government in the USA to limit the allowed religion to be some specific religion such as traditional Catholicism or Reformed Calvinism or generic "Evangelicalism." And of course if the state said it will be Catholicism - then LOTS of folks are upset, and if they say it's Lutheranism then LOTS are upset, and if it's Satanism then LOTS are upset. I have a good friend who lives in Spain - and there it's possible to some degree because Catholicism is deeply ingrained in the culture. I have relatives in Denmark where Lutheranism is deeply ingrained - it's easier in countries like that, but even there MOST are agnostic and there are significant Muslim minorities.

2. Odds are, the STATE would create the STATE religion, the one allowed there in public/secular/state funded schools. That might not be too bad in Texas but in California? I can just image the religion textbook here! In the state where Planned Parenthood wrote the curriculum for "Family Life" classrooms! I can just see abortion made a sacrament, masturbation declared a holy act of worship, celebrations of same sex marriage, how parents are dumb and kids should obey government not parents, etc.

3. God gave responsibility for religion to PARENTS (specifically, dads). THEY are commanded to teach these things to their children. NOT the state, NOT the government, NOT someone else. Parents. Ironically, it's these "conservatives" who are going against Scripture by insisting that the STATE do it. Parents have surrendered teaching about sex (etc) and handing that over to Planned Parenthood via their kid's school... now they want to surrender teaching their kids religion to the same organizations. Parents need to STOP surrendering their GOD given responsibilities to the secular/godless government (which increasingly embraces views and values that are very unbiblical). PARENTS need to teach their kids about God..... Just as God commands. And btw, also about morality, relationships, sex and marriage, etc.

4. It's good to have the kid's school support and supplement this. That's helpful. My wife and I do that by sending our son to a Catholic school. Not only because the academics there are a LOT, LOT better than the public schools but because Christianity is central to everything at the school and traditional Christian ethics and values are integrated into everything (there are no Lutheran schools in our areas). Others do this by homeschooling (LOTS of our friends do this). Both are expensive options that many can't afford - and I understand that. SO, send your kid to the secular school - and YOU, Y.O.U. - be engaged!!!!! Discuss what they are taught! Opt out of the JUNK (legally, parents can), add godly values and ethics, add Scripture reading and true worship. BE PARENTS! Do what God commands of parents.

How odd. You are Lutheran yet send your kids to Roman schools. I think Luther just turned over.

How odd. You don't want others to be taught religion in school but you send your children to schools to be taught religion.

And, where in Scripture do you base your opinion that schools are to be secular and not allow Scripture or the Bible?

You want others to send their kids to secular schools and then to be involved in contradicting what the schools say. "Opt out of the junk", you say. Why not get rid of the junk in secular schools and allow them to teach the Bible?

Why shouldn't a Christian country cater to Christians instead of atheistic secularist's? Since when does 'secularism' get to dictate how Christians should live and be taught?

Answer: Since Christians became cowards, and afraid of how they are perceived in the Satanic world.

Lees

 

[Josiah]

@Lees

allow them to teach the Bible

What would the public, government school teach about the Bible? That it's wrong? That's it's outdated? That it's hateful? That abortion is a sacrament? That masturbation is a holy form of worship? WHAT do you think "they" will teach about the Bible? Will they teach that Jesus taught Communism? That Jesus was gay? I think you ASSUME they'll teach YOUR view of the Bible, what YOU believe. But I don't think your ASSUMPTION has any validity.

You might find some little town in Texas where everyone is a Christian (I suspect such communities might exist). But in the little town are perhaps 20 DIFFERENT churches - all with their OWN view of what the Bible says. WHICH of those 20 churches is going to write the curriculum for the public schools that all the kids of the town will be taught?

If MY kids are going to be "taught the Bible" I want them to be taught MY view of the Bible, not some atheist, liberal, communist, pro-abortion, pro-LGBTQ+, pro-kids having sex school and teacher. And currently, the ONLY way to have traditional, conservative Christianity taught to my kids is to either send them to a CHURCH owned and run school or teach them myself (homeschool). You can work to get all Schools in the USA run by your denomination - but good luck on that.

The Bible clearly gives the responsibility for teaching religion to children to the PARENTS (especially fathers). I wonder why some Christians argue that therefore the secular, godless GOVERNMENT should do what the Bible itself clearly states PARENTS are to do?

You want others to send their kids to secular schools and then to be involved in contradicting what the schools say. "Opt out of the junk", you say. Why not get rid of the junk in secular schools

IF you can..... but good luck!! IF you live in North Dakota or Texas or Florida, you MIGHT have a chance - at least in SOME things. Maybe.

And WHICH parent's views of Christianity will be taught? Catholic? Freewill Baptist? Unitarianism? DIsciples of Christ? Presbyterian? Mormon? You can't get even all Christians to agree on the Nicene Creed. Or even remotely the same understanding of the Apostle's Creed. Or even that there can be creeds. Perhaps you assume YOUR religious views would be taught by all the government/secular schools in Utah and Berkley California - but I question your assumption.

And I see very little to suggest parents will change things. Usually, parents CAN "opt out" their children from some things the secular school teachers - but they almost never do. My wife is a retired public school teacher which is why she'd NEVER allow her kids to attend a public school. The "Family Life" curriculum for third graders includes things like boys spending the day pretending they are girls and then reporting what they like about being a girl... many things like that.... including why it's good and right to do "whatever feels good." The whole curriculum was written by Planned Parenthood. Yes, parents CAN (legally) "opt out" their children from this - they just aren't told that. My wife TOLD them... and handed them the paper to fill out to do so and she showed them some of the stuff in the curriculum their child would be tuaght if they didn't. Nearly all the kids were opted out (so few that the rest were sent to another classroom for that). But she was the only teacher in the school who did this. Theoretically, parents can go to the district office and see all the curriculum their students will be taught but out of school district of tens of thousands of kids, she was told "about a dozen" parents do that. That's it. Parents don't know what their kid will be tuaght because 99.99% of them don't find out. The rest don't know they can see the stuff or don't care enough to do it. So, good luck with your hope that parents will change things. It's a nice thought and good goal but.... and of course, what to do meanwhile?




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[Lees]

@Lees





What would the public, government school teach about the Bible? That it's wrong? That's it's outdated? That it's hateful? That abortion is a sacrament? That masturbation is a holy form of worship? WHAT do you think "they" will teach about the Bible? Will they teach that Jesus taught Communism? That Jesus was gay? I think you ASSUME they'll teach YOUR view of the Bible, what YOU believe. But I don't think your ASSUMPTION has any validity.

You might find some little town in Texas where everyone is a Christian (I suspect such communities might exist). But in the little town are perhaps 20 DIFFERENT churches - all with their OWN view of what the Bible says. WHICH of those 20 churches is going to write the curriculum for the public schools that all the kids of the town will be taught?

If MY kids are going to be "taught the Bible" I want them to be taught MY view of the Bible, not some atheist, liberal, communist, pro-abortion, pro-LGBTQ+, pro-kids having sex school and teacher. And currently, the ONLY way to have traditional, conservative Christianity taught to my kids is to either send them to a CHURCH owned and run school or teach them myself (homeschool). You can work to get all Schools in the USA run by your denomination - but good luck on that.

The Bible clearly gives the responsibility for teaching religion to children to the PARENTS (especially fathers). I wonder why some Christians argue that therefore the secular, godless GOVERNMENT should do what the Bible itself clearly states PARENTS are to do?






IF you can..... but good luck!! IF you live in North Dakota or Texas or Florida, you MIGHT have a chance - at least in SOME things. Maybe.

And WHICH parent's views of Christianity will be taught? Catholic? Freewill Baptist? Unitarianism? DIsciples of Christ? Presbyterian? Mormon? You can't get even all Christians to agree on the Nicene Creed. Or even remotely the same understanding of the Apostle's Creed. Or even that there can be creeds. Perhaps you assume YOUR religious views would be taught by all the government/secular schools in Utah and Berkley California - but I question your assumption.

And I see very little to suggest parents will change things. Usually, parents CAN "opt out" their children from some things the secular school teachers - but they almost never do. My wife is a retired public school teacher which is why she'd NEVER allow her kids to attend a public school. The "Family Life" curriculum for third graders includes things like boys spending the day pretending they are girls and then reporting what they like about being a girl... many things like that.... including why it's good and right to do "whatever feels good." The whole curriculum was written by Planned Parenthood. Yes, parents CAN (legally) "opt out" their children from this - they just aren't told that. My wife TOLD them... and handed them the paper to fill out to do so and she showed them some of the stuff in the curriculum their child would be tuaght if they didn't. Nearly all the kids were opted out (so few that the rest were sent to another classroom for that). But she was the only teacher in the school who did this. Theoretically, parents can go to the district office and see all the curriculum their students will be taught but out of school district of tens of thousands of kids, she was told "about a dozen" parents do that. That's it. Parents don't know what their kid will be tuaght because 99.99% of them don't find out. The rest don't know they can see the stuff or don't care enough to do it. So, good luck with your hope that parents will change things. It's a nice thought and good goal but.... and of course, what to do meanwhile?

Well, that is what the atheistic public schools teach now about the Bible, under the guise of 'separation of church and state'. That is not what I expect a Christian community to allow in it's public schools. You apparently allow things taught you may not agree with in your Catholic school system where your children go. But, as you say, it is not atheistic and adheres to the main Christian beliefs. Why shouldn't a Christian people's public school system reflect the same. It should. But it has been allowed by Christians to deteriorate into a liberal atheistic system.

The public school system I speak of doesn't need to teach doctrine from the Bible. But it should always hold God, Christ, and the Bible in a respectful manner as it teaches the other basic needs of education. The public school system should reflect the Christian community it dwells in. Not reflect some Federal court room hundreds and thousands miles away by an atheistic people who use 'separation of church and state' to brain wash our children.

You say you can't get Christians to agree. So what? Neither can you get politicians or atheists to agree. That doesn't stop them from trying to run things the way they want. You are willing to sacrifice your beliefs as Lutheran in sending your kids to Catholic schools just to have them in an atmosphere of Christian faith. I'm sure others would do the same if offered in a public system.

I agree with you and your wife. Our public school system has gone to hell. And the divide is so great at this stage that there is no hope without a total war between the two; Christian and atheism. But it has gone to hell because Christian allowed the false teaching of 'separation of church and state' to influence their decisions instead of fighting against such a teaching. It has gone to hell because Christians are constantly told they are to just love everybody. 'If we just love them they will see our way is best' Oh yeah...and where did that get us? Right where we are today. An atheistic country running our school system. And Christians now wringing their hands saying, 'how can this be'?

You ask, what do we do in the meantime? We do what we can. We believe God and what He has 'said' in the Bible. We believe it and don't try and change it to make it palatable to our taste. If God says He loves, we believe it. If God says He hates, we believe it. If God loves peace, we believe it. If God is a Man of war, we believe it. If God says there is a time for war and a time for peace we believe it. Instead of creating this icky sticky sugar coated god that we have now and which has allowed these atheistic conditions to prevail.

My opinion

Lees

 

[Albion]

How odd. You are Lutheran yet send your kids to Roman schools. I think Luther just turned over.

I would guess that there isn't a school nearby that's operated by the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. And then too, Roman Catholic schools are not nearly as doctrinaire as they were some decades ago--more like teaching Christian basics that almost all denominations would agree to.

How odd. You don't want others to be taught religion in school but you send your children to schools to be taught religion.

The issue there was PUBLIC schools. Has anyone so far said that they oppose the teaching of religion in any and every school?

You want others to send their kids to secular schools and then to be involved in contradicting what the schools say. "Opt out of the junk", you say. Why not get rid of the junk in secular schools and allow them to teach the Bible?

What's your proposal for how to bring that change about?

 

[Josiah]

What's your proposal for how to bring that change about?

.... and MEANWHILE.. as we are waiting for Lee's denomination to write and control all religious teaching in all public schools in the USA, should public schools NOW teach religion while we wait for that to happen?

But I remember that the Bible specifically assigns religious instruction NOT to government but to PARENTS (especially fathers). It doesn't prescribe the teaching of reading or writing or mathematics to parents but it does religion. Specifically.



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[Lees]

I would guess that there isn't a school nearby that's operated by the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. And then too, Roman Catholic schools are not nearly as doctrinaire as they were some decades ago--more like teaching Christian basics that almost all denominations would agree to.

The issue there was PUBLIC schools. Has anyone so far said that they oppose the teaching of religion in any and every school?

What's your proposal for how to bring that change about?

Roman schools will teach the 'basics' of Roman Catholicism.

Josiah in post #1 said, "I am against religion in public schools". Such a view is why the schools and nation is atheistic and in the shape they are.

Respond to my post #(5) and then plead.

Lees

 

[Lees]

.... and MEANWHILE.. as we are waiting for Lee's denomination to write and control all religious teaching in all public schools in the USA, should public schools NOW teach religion while we wait for that to happen?

But I remember that the Bible specifically assigns religious instruction NOT to government but to PARENTS (especially fathers). It doesn't prescribe the teaching of reading or writing or mathematics to parents but it does religion. Specifically.

Yet again, you send your children to a Roman school which will control all their religious teaching....while you wait. Respond to my post #(5).

The Bible doesn't prescribe 'public schools'. Schools are but a natural product of man's Godly desire to learn and subdue the earth. (Gen. 1:28) A learning with God included, not excluded. God becomes excluded as a community, PARENTS, leave God out of their public life and schools. (especially fathers)

You act as if you remove God (religion) out of public schools that no religion will be taught. Not so. Atheism, the religion of no God, will take hold. Anti-Christianism will take hold. Creation, Evolution, etc. etc. When you remove God out of public schools, you create a void. And creation hates a void. It will be filled.

Lees

 

[Josiah]

When you remove God out of public schools, you create a void.

To be filled by whom GOD HIMSELF states is to fill it: Parents.

God gave the command to teach religion to PARENTS. Not secular government.



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[Lees]

To be filled by whom GOD HIMSELF states is to fill it: Parents.

God gave the command to teach religion to PARENTS. Not secular government.

Non-sense.

My statement was 'God being removed from public schools'. Thus the void is within the school, not a void within the person. And the void is filled in the school with atheism and evolution contrary to God. Why? Because PARENTS don't believe religion should be taught in public schools.

Yes, yes, you keep saying that. PARENTS. So give me some Scripture in support.

And, show me in Scripture where God instituted public schools.

Lees

 

[Albion]

Roman schools will teach the 'basics' of Roman Catholicism.

Well, that comment suggests that you are guessing at what the situation in today's Catholic schools is. Like it or not, the RC doctrines that the average Protestant would object to are hardly mentioned these days. It's more a matter of living morally, respecting others, believing in Jesus, etc.

Yes, some of this could offend a Protestant parent, but when compared to the garbage that is poured into elementary kids in the public schools, I cannot fault any parent for opting for a parochial school, even a Catholic one since that church runs more of them than any other denomination.

Josiah in post #1 said, "I am against religion in public schools". Such a view is why the schools and nation is atheistic and in the shape they are.

Practically speaking, though, it's irrelevant for the reason that it's not lawful to teach religion in public schools.

Non-sense.

My statement was 'God being removed from public schools'. Thus the void is within the school, not a void within the person. And the void is filled in the school with atheism and evolution contrary to God. Why? Because PARENTS don't believe religion should be taught in public schools.

Sooooo, in response the question ("What's your plan for getting the teaching of religion, i.e. Christianity, into the public schools?") your answer is "get parents to believe religion should be taught in public schools?"

 

[Josiah]

show me in Scripture where God instituted public schools.

God never instituted public schools - nor stated that public, government owned/operated schools are to teach religion.

God specifically gives to PARENTS the responsibility to teach religion - not the king, not secular government, not public schools.
Ephesians 6:4, "Fathers, bring up your children in the discipline and instruction of the Lord."
Deuteronomy 6:7, "You shall teach them diligently to your children."

Now, the Bible says nothing about who/what is to teach mathematics or reading (If at all) but it DOES state who is to teach religion.

Can you quote the Scriptures that state that religion is to be taught by the king, the government, schools? Nope.


Now, parents may permit others to HELP them, SUPPORT them in teaching this. I'm a Sunday school teacher and I do this - for parents who choose to entrust their children to our church's instruction, but I'm only assisting the parents with THEIR permission and affirming THEIR faith. It's a LUTHERAN Sunday School, run by a LUTHERAN church, taught by a LUTHERAN person. A public, government owned and operated school (NOT a church school!!!!) could theoretically do this, as well, as I noted. And in centuries past - when communities were 100% united in their faith, when EVERYONE, ALL parents were Catholic or Lutheran or Greek Orthodox for example, this was doable. But in the US, this is very likely impossible. RARE is the state where 100% of the people are Mormon or Roman Catholic or Unitarian or Free Will Baptist or Lutheran or Greek Orthodox or TULIP Reformed - or even Christian! So the issue becomes which religion would the state teach in its schools? Unlike Denmark a few centuries ago, there isn't just one faith in the community, to which all ascribe. Most with your view ASSUME that the religion that all public, government run schools would teach would be THEIR religion, the views of THEIR denomination! Not likely...





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[Lees]

God never instituted public schools - nor stated that public, government owned/operated schools are to teach religion.

God specifically gives to PARENTS the responsibility to teach religion - not the king, not secular government, not public schools.
Ephesians 6:4, "Fathers, bring up your children in the discipline and instruction of the Lord."
Deuteronomy 6:7, "You shall teach them diligently to your children."

Now, the Bible says nothing about who/what is to teach mathematics or reading (If at all) but it DOES state who is to teach religion.

Can you quote the Scriptures that state that religion is to be taught by the king, the government, schools? Nope.


Now, parents may permit others to HELP them, SUPPORT them in teaching this. I'm a Sunday school teacher and I do this - for parents who choose to entrust their children to our church's instruction, but I'm only assisting the parents with THEIR permission and affirming THEIR faith. It's a LUTHERAN Sunday School, run by a LUTHERAN church, taught by a LUTHERAN person. A public, government owned and operated school (NOT a church school!!!!) could theoretically do this, as well, as I noted. And in centuries past - when communities were 100% united in their faith, when EVERYONE, ALL parents were Catholic or Lutheran or Greek Orthodox for example, this was doable. But in the US, this is very likely impossible. RARE is the state where 100% of the people are Mormon or Roman Catholic or Unitarian or Free Will Baptist or Lutheran or Greek Orthodox or TULIP Reformed - or even Christian! So the issue becomes which religion would the state teach in its schools? Unlike Denmark a few centuries ago, there isn't just one faith in the community, to which all ascribe. Most with your view ASSUME that the religion that all public, government run schools would teach would be THEIR religion, the views of THEIR denomination! Not likely...

That is correct. God never instituted public schools. And God never said knowledge of Him should be avoided in public schools. Public schools are a product of community which is a product of PARENTS. If you want to trace it back to 'government' that's fine. Government is also made up of people, community, PARENTS.

Understand, I have said in post #(5), which you seem to avoid, that public schools don't have to teach 'doctrine'. But the public schools of a Christian community should reflect a respect, and honor for God, Christ, and the Bible. And when teaching comes in that dishonors God, Christ, and the Bible, it should be rejected. Such as 'evolution' under the guise of 'science'. Or, when immorality is taught as good, such as homosexuality or transgender or any other of the alphabetical perverts.

Why is such allowed to be taught in schools? PARENTS and community and government have failed. How did they fail? They believed the lie of 'separation of church and state'. They were quiet instead of fighting against it. And worse, some, like yourself, oppose that the knowledge of God, Christ, and the Bible be reflected in the school system. Funny isn't it. You who oppose God in public schools remove your children from public schools because of the 'garbage' they are exposed to.

When a public school teaches evolution, whether it's of the origin of man, or of the earth and universe, do you agree that their brand of science should be taught? And, because God did not institute public schools, is God pleased with their view of science? Or, if a teacher refuses to teach such garbage, and instead teaches the Biblical origin of Creation, is God pleased with that, or is he displeased?

As I said, and as has been shown, when Christians do nothing, atheism is taught. Evolution is taught. All contradictory to God and the Bible. All under the title, 'separation of church and state'.

Your use of the word 'PARENTS' does not exclude PARENTS responsibility in public schools.

Lees

 

[Lees]

Well, that comment suggests that you are guessing at what the situation in today's Catholic schools is. Like it or not, the RC doctrines that the average Protestant would object to are hardly mentioned these days. It's more a matter of living morally, respecting others, believing in Jesus, etc.

Yes, some of this could offend a Protestant parent, but when compared to the garbage that is poured into elementary kids in the public schools, I cannot fault any parent for opting for a parochial school, even a Catholic one since that church runs more of them than any other denomination.


Practically speaking, though, it's irrelevant for the reason that it's not lawful to teach religion in public schools.


Sooooo, in response the question ("What's your plan for getting the teaching of religion, i.e. Christianity, into the public schools?") your answer is "get parents to believe religion should be taught in public schools?"

No. That comment suggests that children growing up in a Roman Catholic school will be exposed to Roman Catholicism and it's doctrines.

Read post #(5).

Lees

 

[Albion]

No. That comment suggests that children growing up in a Roman Catholic school will be exposed to Roman Catholicism and it's doctrines.

For the third time (!), I have to advise you that today's Roman Catholic schools have become "lightweights" as concerns the teaching of doctrine. And the doctrines that are taught in them are, for the most part, what most Christian denominations hold in common.

So, is this choice worse than the public schools where a hostile, secular "woke" version of religious education is the mainstay?

I would not immediately say that it is. Therefore, I sympathize with parents who are not faced with very many good options when it comes to their youngsters' education.

 

[Lees]

For the third time (!), I have to advise you that today's Roman Catholic schools have become "lightweights" as concerns the teaching of doctrine. And the doctrines that are taught in them are, for the most part, what most Christian denominations hold in common.

So, is this choice worse than the public schools where a hostile, secular "woke" version of religious education is the mainstay?

I would not immediately say that it is. Therefore, I sympathize with parents who are not faced with very many good options when it comes to their youngsters' education.

But I care not for your 'advice'. If a child goes to a Roman Catholic school they will be exposed to Roman Catholicism and doctrine. If that doesn't bother you and Josiah, that is fine. But your argument of 'lightweights' has little affect. A child cannot go to a Roman school and not be exposed to Catholicism.

This discussion is not about 'which is worse'. It is about God and Christian religion present in schools. Your argument of 'which is worse' supports the need for God and religion to be present in schools. After all, which is worse?

Josiah says God and religion should not be in public schools. And they are not anymore. Result, schools have gone to hell. So Josiah must take his kids out due to all the garbage there. And he puts them in a Catholic school where God and religion are present. Yet he still maintains God and religion should not be in public schools. He is literally supporting that which forced him to have to take his kids out of public schools.

So, don't lose sight of the real argument here.

I too sympathize with parents having to deal with this problem. And I don't blame them for doing whatever they have to. My blame is aimed at Christians who in the past have allowed this to happen. And at Christians who still allow this to happen by supporting 'separation of church and state'.

Lees

 

[Albion]

But I care not for your 'advice'.

I see. So then why are your posts cluttering up a "discussion board?"

 

[Lees]

I see. So then why are your posts cluttering up a "discussion board?"

What does that have to do with caring not for your advice?

I am addressing the topic at hand. You apparently cannot. Thus what you call 'clutter' is your inability to discuss.

Lees

 

[Josiah]

Your argument of 'which is worse' supports the need for God and religion to be present in schools.

Of course, I consider the Catholic Church and Catholic Schools to have God and Christianity. I realize, not everyone agrees with that, there are those who think that The Catholic Church is anti-God and anti-Christianity. I don't agree with that. Nor does this website. I'd rather my child went to a school of the LCMS (my denomination) but none exists in my areas, and I regard this school of the Catholic Church to be close enough, acceptable to me. YES, there will be areas of disagreement but they wont' be many and I can discuss those with my child.

BUT it is MY CHOICE as the parent of MY CHILDREN - and I'M the one charged directly by God Himself for the religious education of my children, me, exclusively - no one else, not the government, not some school board, not you, not any other parent, not some governor, not some president, not some political party, not Planned Parenthood or some LGBGTQ+ organization. ME (and my wife). God specifically gives this responsibility and authority to parents - the child's parents (especially their father).

Josiah puts them in a Catholic school where God and religion are present. Yet he still maintains God and religion should not be in public schools.

Catholic schools are not public schools. Catholic schools are not owned and operated and controlled by the State. I said the religion of the secular state should not be imposed upon the children in public schools, parents should not ignore their God-given responsibility to teach their faith to their children and hand it over to the secular state.

YES.... IF I lived in a state where 100% of the population were active members of The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod, and the secular state had The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod do all the teaching of religion in all its public schools, all instruction in complete conformity with the doctrines, practices and morality of The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod, then I'd be fine sending them to a public school. Heck, if the Catholic Church was so empowered and authorized, even perhaps a very conservative/traditional form of the Anglican Church - well, I'd accept that, too. But then we'd need to live in a state of the USA where 100% of the parents are active members of the LCMS or RCC or Anglican Church. And no such state exists. I suspect the only one of the 50 US States were a (very slight) majority of people are of one faith would be Utah and Mormonism - but I'm not sure about that anymore. Vermont MAY have a majority of Atheists, but not everyone considers that a religion. Lee, I don't want conservative/traditional Lutheranism FORCED on all kids by the State either. I want PARENTS to teach them. Just as GOD does (indeed, God COMMANDS this). And if THEY choose (and frankly can afford it), THEY might employ a CHRISTIAN school of their faith (or close enough for them) to HELP them teach it, that's fine with me. But that's not the STATE forcing ITS "religion" on them.

My blame is aimed at Christians who in the past have allowed this to happen.

So, AGAIN, what are parents to do until the day when 100% of the people in the USA are active members of your church, teaching YOUR views?

And AGAIN, if California is going to teach religion to all students, WHICH religion is it going to force upon our children? Hinduism? Catholicism? Mormonism? Free Will Baptist? Judaism? Liberal Methodist? LCMS Lutheran? ELCA Lutheran? Muslim? Conservative Anglican or Liberal Episcopalianism? Atheism? Agnosticism? Will it teach Pelagianism? Universalism? Modalism? Arianism? That only men can be pastors? That Baptism must only be to adults and by full immersion? Do you ASSUME that all 50 states would teach YOUR religious views? Or at least something acceptable to YOU?



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