Joe Manchin is thinking about running as an independent

[Lanman87]

West Va Senator Joe Manchin is considering running for POTUS as an independent candidate. Manchin is a pro-life moderate Democrat who often works with moderate Republicans. In a divided senate, Manchin may be the most powerful Senator, as both sides court his vote. He has held up several Biden initiatives, the most notable is "build, back, better" initiative for being costly and overreaching. He has also voted against a Biden Judicial appointment for being to radical and forced a drastic reduction in the scope and cost of the "inflation reduction act". Manchin co-wrote and sponsored the Inflation Reduction Act but refused to add a bunch of stuff the White wanted in the bill. After it was enacted and he saw how it was being administered by the Biden administration he has pubically said it was a mistake and he would vote to repeal the Inflation Reduction Act. He refused to attend a party at the White House celebrating the one year annivesary of the Inflation Reduction Act.

Rush Limbaugh used to say a moderate is a politican with no core principles and no backbone.

Would you consider voting for Manchin?

If he runs, will it help Trump or Biden?

I think that if he does run he will get a record number of votes for an independent candidate. I don't think he could win but he will make some noise. From what I can see, most normal folks that aren't politically engaged don't want either Trump or Biden and are sick of the constitant right versus left rhetoric and bickering. If there is any year a moderate could move the needle it is this year.

However, if by some miracle, Manchin were elected he would make a terrible president. He would be at war with both parties.

 

[tango]

It's hard to see which side his presence would help more. What I really want is for the size of government to be rolled back massively such that they aren't interfering in ever-more aspects of daily life. For me that means something more like traditional conservativism (since libertarian candidates are unlikely to win) but the Republicans seem to have drifted into being the other party of large government, they just interfere in different ways.

I could see Manchin drawing a lot of votes from moderates, floaters and independents. The moderate Democrats who couldn't support another four years of Biden but would rather face that than another four years of Trump. The moderate Republicans who couldn't support another four years of Trump but would rather face that than another four years of Biden. Maybe first-time voters who look at Trump and Biden and wonder how a country of over 300,000,000 people managed to conclude that these were the best two candidates for the top office.

I suspect you're right that he wouldn't get a lot done, with ongoing battle with both parties. That could be a good thing - if nothing can happen without bipartisan support it would hopefully mean that only important stuff got done, rather than each party endlessly pushing their pet projects with names totally unrelated to their likely outcomes.

 

[Albion]

Would you consider voting for Manchin?

No.

If he runs, will it help Trump or Biden?

Maybe help Trump but only slightly.

I think that if he does run he will get a record number of votes for an independent candidate.

Not a chance.

From what I can see, most normal folks that aren't politically engaged don't want either Trump or Biden and are sick of the constitant right versus left rhetoric and bickering. If there is any year a moderate could move the needle it is this year.

Perhaps, but there are several other independent candidacies in the works and some of them are more promising than Manchin or whomever the "No Labels" Party chooses. Considering just the No Labels Party, there are a couple of other people who have expressed an interest in being that party's nominee and Manchin himself has never actually committed to making the run as the No Labels candidate. He seems to enjoy being the object of speculation, just as he often has been when some important vote is pending in the Senate.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is almost certainly the most promising of the third-party candidates, and I suppose he'd be considered a moderate, too.

 

[Lanman87]

He seems to enjoy being the object of speculation, just as he often has been when some important vote is pending in the Senate.

That's true. He seems to enjoy yanking peoples chains. He is just as likely to endorse Biden as he is run for President.

and I suppose he'd be considered a moderate, too.

From Kennedy's webisite:

• Raise the minimum wage to $15, which is the equivalent to its 1967 level.
• Prosecute union-busting corporations so that labor can organize and negotiate fair wages.
• Expand free childcare to millions of families with programs like that pioneered by the state of New Mexico.
• Drop housing costs by $1000 per family and make home ownership affordable by backing 3% home mortgages with tax-free bonds.
• Cut energy prices by restricting natural gas exports.
• Support small businesses by redirecting regulatory scrutiny onto large corporations.
• Secure the border and bring illegal immigration to a halt, so that undocumented migrants won’t undercut wages.
• Negotiate trade deals that prevent low-wage countries from competing with American workers in a “race to the bottom.”
• Rein in military spending and use the resources to fund infrastructure, health care, higher education, child care, and domestic prosperity.
• Reverse the chronic disease epidemic that is a $3.7 trillion drag on families and the American economy.
• Clean out the corruption in Washington, D.C., which funnels so much of our nation’s wealth to giant corporations and billionaires.
• Establish addiction healing centers on organic farms across the country.
• Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy and cut interest rates on student loans to zero.
• Cut drug costs by half to bring them in line with other nations.

Other than "secure the border" that sounds like a typical Democrat to me.

 

[Albion]

That's true. He seems to enjoy yanking peoples chains. He is just as likely to endorse Biden as he is run for President.

From Kennedy's webisite:

• Raise the minimum wage to $15, which is the equivalent to its 1967 level.
• Prosecute union-busting corporations so that labor can organize and negotiate fair wages.
• Expand free childcare to millions of families with programs like that pioneered by the state of New Mexico.
• Drop housing costs by $1000 per family and make home ownership affordable by backing 3% home mortgages with tax-free bonds.
• Cut energy prices by restricting natural gas exports.
• Support small businesses by redirecting regulatory scrutiny onto large corporations.
• Secure the border and bring illegal immigration to a halt, so that undocumented migrants won’t undercut wages.
• Negotiate trade deals that prevent low-wage countries from competing with American workers in a “race to the bottom.”
• Rein in military spending and use the resources to fund infrastructure, health care, higher education, child care, and domestic prosperity.
• Reverse the chronic disease epidemic that is a $3.7 trillion drag on families and the American economy.
• Clean out the corruption in Washington, D.C., which funnels so much of our nation’s wealth to giant corporations and billionaires.
• Establish addiction healing centers on organic farms across the country.
• Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy and cut interest rates on student loans to zero.
• Cut drug costs by half to bring them in line with other nations.

Other than "secure the border" that sounds like a typical Democrat to me.

Well, we could expect a moderate to hold views on the other side of some important issues as well, isn't that right? So, let's also consider these other stances taken by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.--

1. End illegal immigration.
2. End the failed "War on Drugs."
3. Have no more "lockdowns" of the people during disease outbreaks.
4. Protect (and/or restore) free speech.
5. Make the USA's foreign policy emphasize Peace, not Intervention.
6. Establish transparency with federal government agencies.
7. Put an end to big corporations running federal agencies.
8. Disband NATO.

I think you'll agree that the "typical Democrat" you referred to would not campaign on or want most, if any, of those policies.

 

[Lanman87]

Well, we could expect a moderate to hold views on the other side of some important issues as well, isn't that right? So, let's also consider these other stances taken by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.--

1. End illegal immigration.
2. End the failed "War on Drugs."
3. Have no more "lockdowns" of the people during disease outbreaks.
4. Protect (and/or restore) free speech.
5. Make the USA's foreign policy emphasize Peace, not Intervention.
6. Establish transparency with federal government agencies.
7. Put an end to big corporations running federal agencies.
8. Disband NATO.

I think you'll agree that the "typical Democrat" you referred to would not campaign on or want most, if any, of those policies.

Looks like a mixture of a Democrat and Libertarian. Kind of a left leaning Rand Paul.

I definitely disagree with ending NATO. NATO, even with all its faults, has keep us out of WWIII for decades.

 

[Albion]

Looks like a mixture of a Democrat and Libertarian. Kind of a left leaning Rand Paul.

Rand Paul is a Republican, although his father is well-known in Libertarian circles.

The point was that Kennedy advocates for some positions that are usually Democratic and others that are typically Republican. That's what I was responding to--the idea of a moderate being an appealing alternative to the two major parties.

And that, in turn, was what you were talking about in your Original Post when you wrote this: "From what I can see, most normal folks that aren't politically engaged don't want either Trump or Biden and are sick of the constitant right versus left rhetoric and bickering. If there is any year a moderate could move the needle it is this year."

Anyway, Joe Manchin has just announced that he will not seek the presidency this year. I expect that the No Labels party will continue seeking ballot access in as many states as possible and will take another person for its nominee. Chris Christie is among those said to be interested.

 

[Lanman87]

Anyway, Joe Manchin has just announced that he will not seek the presidency this year.

Well. He will probably write a book or something.

 

[Albion]

Well. He will probably write a book or something.

I guess so. He most likely did want to be a candidate for President, and believes a moderate can do well, BUT the state laws regarding how to qualify an Independent for the ballot are so tough and differ from state to state that it's almost impossible to do well in the general election. You're not going to do much damage to the two major party candidates if you're only on six or seven state ballots yourself.