A Lutheran Roadblock

prism

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How do Lutherans here get over the hurdle of Luther's diatribe "The Jews and Their Lies", especially working from his lens of Law/Gospel?
 

Lamb

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How do Lutherans here get over the hurdle of Luther's diatribe "The Jews and Their Lies", especially working from his lens of Law/Gospel?

They look at what was going on at the time. Are you aware that the Jews said that Jesus was a bastard?

Luther wasn't against the Jews as a race, but as a religion that turned away from the true Savior.
 

prism

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Are you aware that the Jews said that Jesus was a bastard?
Yes I do realize that, but on the other hand I realize Jesus and His Apostles were all Jewish, and besides, when it comes to the charge of Christ killers, weren't the Gentiles just as guilty?... even God the Father is implicated

Acts 4:27-28 NKJV
"For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together [28] to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done.
Luther wasn't against the Jews as a race, but as a religion that turned away from the true Savior.


So how do we reconcile Luther's vehemance against the Jews in light of his teachings of law/gospel?
 

Albion

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How do Lutherans here get over the hurdle of Luther's diatribe "The Jews and Their Lies", especially working from his lens of Law/Gospel?
Luther is much in evidence in today's Lutheran churches, which is not the case with every Christian denomination and their own founders. Still, he's not considered by Lutherans to have been perfect. And he was a normal German of his time as well. So that, and his disappointment, late in life, at the fact that the Jews were not converting to Christianity once reform had been achieved, led to what you are talking about. There really is nothing in this for any Lutheran today to apologize for.
 

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Yes I do realize that, but on the other hand I realize Jesus and His Apostles were all Jewish, and besides, when it comes to the charge of Christ killers, weren't the Gentiles just as guilty?... even God the Father is implicated

Acts 4:27-28 NKJV
"For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together [28] to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done.



So how do we reconcile Luther's vehemance against the Jews in light of his teachings of law/gospel?

The difference between Jesus and the apostles was that they believed in Jesus being their Savior. The Jews of Luther's time period and our modern day do NOT believe He is the one who saves.

As for killing Jesus, all of us are guilty because it was our sin He took to the cross. Thankfully He did that so that all our sin could be forgiven.

Luther's speeches against the Jews in light of Law and Gospel is spot on in saying that those who don't trust in Jesus as Savior damn themselves.
 
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Josiah

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How do Lutherans here get over the hurdle of Luther's diatribe "The Jews and Their Lies"


@prism

One of the almost constant points made about Luther (even in some public school textbooks) is that Luther was a rapid Anti-Semitic. This accusation has been very common since World War II. Is this historical? Is it true? The following, from the website of James Swan (not a Lutheran BTW), examines that.....


Was Luther an Anti-Semite?


It should be kept in my mind that Luther’s later anti-Jewish tracts were written from a position different than current concept of anti-Semitism. Luther was born into a society that was anti-Judaic, but it was not the current anti-Judaic type of society that bases it racism on biological factors. Luther had no objections to integrating converted Jews fully into Christian society. He had nothing against Jews as “Jews” as a race. He had something against their religion because he believed it denied Christ.

Dr. Heiko Oberman points out, “One thing must be clearly understood: Luther was anti-Jewish in his repeated warnings against the Jews (of any race) because of it denied the Christian Gospel and thus Christ. But Luther was not an anti-Semite or racist of any kind because- to apply the test appropriate to his time- for him a baptized Jew is fully Christian and because it matters not at all to him whether an advocate of the Jewish religion was Jew or Gentile."

Lutheran scholar Eric Gritsch echoes Oberman’s point: “Luther was not an anti-Semite in the modern racist sense. His arguments against the Jews were theological, not biological or racist." Gritsch goes on to point out the origin of biological anti-Semitism: “Not until a French cultural anthropologist in the nineteenth century held that humankind consisted of ‘Semites’ and ‘Aryans’ were Semites considered inferior. Alfonse de Gobineau’s views were quickly adopted by European intellectuals and politicians, and Jews became the scapegoats of a snobbish colonialist society in England, France, and Germany. The rest is history- including the Jewish holocaust perpetrated by Adolf Hitler and his regime. National Socialists abused Luther to support their new racist anti-Semitism, calling him a genuine German who had hated non-Nordic races.”

In his article “Luther’s Attitudes toward Judaism,” Carter Lindberg provides an excellent example proving Luther’s anti-Jewish writings were not motivated by biological racism. Lindberg says, “More to the point is Luther’s stance on religious intermarriage. In his criticism of the medieval Catholic canonical prohibition against a Christian marrying a Jew, Luther wrote, "Just as I may eat, drink, sleep, walk, ride with, buy from, speak to, and deal with a heathen, Jew, Turk, or heretic, so I may also marry and continue in wedlock with him. Pay no attention to the precepts of those fools who forbid it. You will find plenty of Christians—and indeed the greater part of them—who are worse in their secret unbelief than any Jew. A heathen is just as much a man or a woman—God's good creation—as St. Peter, St. Paul, and St. Lucy, not to speak of a slack and spurious Christian."

Rather than being motivated by biological factors, Luther’s criticisms were motivated exclusively by theological concerns. Luther directed intensely abusive language against Anabaptists, lawyers, the papacy, and the Jews, the issue never being race but theology. The Jews had a religion based upon works righteousness. When Luther attacked these groups, he felt he was attacking the devil- the underlying spirit of works righteousness.

Equally, he was opposed to any sense of racial superiority. In his last expositions on Genesis in 1544, Luther makes it explicit that no one has the right to boast on their race or lineage: “Accordingly, the Jews have no grounds for boasting; they should humble themselves and acknowledge their maternal blood. For on their father’s side they are Israelites; but on their mother’s side they are Gentiles, Moabites, Assyrians, Egyptians, Canaanites. And by this God wanted to point out that the Messiah would be a brother and a cousin of both the Jews and the Gentiles, if not according to their paternal genealogy, at least according to their maternal nature. Consequently, there is no distinction between Jews and Gentiles, except that Moses later separated this people from the Gentiles by a different form of worship and political regime. Moreover, these things were written to make it known to all that the Messiah would gather the Gentiles and the Jews into one and the same church, just as they are joined by nature and consanguinity.”

In his commentary on Galatians 3:28, Luther explains we are all equal. No particular people has any right to claim special privilege before God: “ ‘There is neither magistrate nor subject, neither professor nor listener, neither teacher nor pupil, neither lady nor servant.’ For in Christ Jesus all social stations, even those that were divinely ordained, are nothing. Male, female, slave, free, Jew, Gentile, king, subject—these are, of course, good creatures of God. But in Christ, that is, in the matter of salvation, they amount to nothing, for all their wisdom, righteousness, devotion, and authority.”

Luther’s most well known anti-Jewish writing was On The Jews and Their Lies. It is often quoted and cited as the clearest example of Luther’s anti-Semitism. Interestingly though, this very document proves that Luther was not a biological anti-Semite, he was not against the Jews as people, nor did he seek for their extermination. In that treatise, Luther launches into a long section against any notion that the Jews are better than anyone else. He puts forth an alleged popular anti-Jewish argument that they thanked God that they were not born gentiles or women. In arguing against this caricature, Luther mocks those who think any one particular people is better than another: “…[T]he Greek Plato daily accorded God such praise and thanksgiving—if such arrogance and blasphemy may be termed praise of God. This man, too, praised his gods for these three items: that he was a human being and not an animal; a male and not a female; a Greek and not a non-Greek or barbarian…Similarly, the Italians fancy themselves the only human beings; they imagine that all other people in the world are nonhumans, mere ducks or mice by comparison.”




AHHHH...



.
 

prism

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Luther is much in evidence in today's Lutheran churches, which is not the case with every Christian denomination and their own founders. Still, he's not considered by Lutherans to have been perfect. And he was a normal German of his time as well. So that, and his disappointment, late in life, at the fact that the Jews were not converting to Christianity once reform had been achieved, led to what you are talking about. There really is nothing in this for any Lutheran today to apologize for.
I'm not looking for an apology from Lutherans, it's just that Luther was the main fountain of Lutheran theology. Obviously, none of the Reformers were perfect. Ridley, Melancthon, Calvin, etc.
 

prism

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The difference between Jesus and the apostles was that they believed in Jesus being their Savior. The Jews of Luther's time period and our modern day do NOT believe He is the one who saves.

As for killing Jesus, all of us are guilty because it was our sin He took to the cross. Thankfully He did that so that all our sin could be forgiven.

Luther's speeches against the Jews in light of Law and Gospel is spot on in saying that those who don't trust in Jesus as Savior damn themselves.
I know, but the following is a bit over the top...
  1. to burn down Jewish synagogues and schools and warn people against them
  2. to refuse to let Jews own houses among Christians
  3. to take away Jewish religious writings
  4. to forbid rabbis from preaching
  5. to offer no protection to Jews on highways
  6. for usury to be prohibited and for all Jews' silver and gold to be removed, put aside for safekeeping, and given back to Jews who truly convert
  7. to give young, strong Jews flail, axe, spade, and spindle, and let them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow
 

prism

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Luther’s most well known anti-Jewish writing was On The Jews and Their Lies. It is often quoted and cited as the clearest example of Luther’s anti-Semitism. Interestingly though, this very document proves that Luther was not a biological anti-Semite, he was not against the Jews as people, nor did he seek for their extermination. In that treatise, Luther launches into a long section against any notion that the Jews are better than anyone else.
I just wonder if Luther wrote with such vehemence against others as he did the Jews? I don't believe it was racially or even doctrinally motivated as much as perhaps coming under spiritual influences in the late 1530s.
It is believed that Luther was influenced by Anton Margaritha's book Der gantze Jüdisch Glaub (The Whole Jewish Belief).[11] Margaritha, a convert to Christianity who had become a Lutheran, published his antisemitic book in 1530 which was read by Luther in 1539. In 1539, Luther got his hands on the book and immediately became fond of it: "The materials provided in this book confirmed for Luther that the Jews in their blindness wanted nothing to do with faith and justification through faith."(Wiki)
In fairness to Luther, he spoke highly of the Jews in his early writings.
 

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I just wonder if Luther wrote with such vehemence against others as he did the Jews? I don't believe it was racially or even doctrinally motivated as much as perhaps coming under spiritual influences in the late 1530s.

In fairness to Luther, he spoke highly of the Jews in his early writings.

I think he wrote awful things about the turks too?
 

Josiah

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I just wonder if Luther wrote with such vehemence against others as he did the Jews?

Worse. Non more than "the Turks" (Muslims).

But again, this was not antisemitism, it was anti-any RELIGION that repudiated Christianity. He was defending Christianity against those who taught otherwise.

And we need to remember that Luther did not live in the USA in 2024... where Political Correctness reigns to absurd levels. He lived in an age when "debate" was highly, extremely polemic. It was just how all this was done 500 years ago - pretty much the antithesis of our "PC." Yeah, it was MEANT to be extreme. We see this not only from Luther but from everyone else at the time.

BTW, I understand none of this was so much as mentioned until the 1930's when none other than Adolf Hitler popularized these comments (often ripped out of context) only Hitler (and his puppets) CHANGED the whole thing from anti-Jewish RELIGION to anti-Jewish RACE. And this raised these things to public knowledge. Ironically, AFTER Hitler, this continued - suggesting Luther was against the Jewish race when he clearly had nothing whatsoever against the race, he was against all religions that denied Christ and the Gospel.



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prism

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I think he wrote awful things about the turks too?
Jesus died for them as well as Jews too.

1 Corinthians 5:13 CSB
God judges outsiders. Remove the evil person from among you.

It's not our job to pass judgment on those outside the faith, except they need the Gospel.
 

prism

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But again, this was not antisemitism, it was anti-any RELIGION that repudiated Christianity. He was defending Christianity against those who taught otherwise.
Perhaps, but he truly zeroed in on the Jews circa 1543 when he wrote The Jews and Their Lies and it's writing coincidentally happened shortly after reading Anton Margaritha's book. Margaritha, a convert to Christianity who had become a Lutheran, published his antisemitic book in 1530. In 1539, Luther got his hands on the book and immediately became fond of it: (post#9)
And we need to remember that Luther did not live in the USA in 2024... where Political Correctness reigns to absurd levels. He lived in an age when "debate" was highly, extremely polemic. It was just how all this was done 500 years ago - pretty much the antithesis of our "PC." Yeah, it was MEANT to be extreme. We see this not only from Luther but from everyone else at the time.
I realize that. Here in the USA 'toleration' is the name of the game. (I guess I'm not being too tolerant of Luther :).
BTW, I understand none of this was so much as mentioned until the 1930's when none other than Adolf Hitler popularized these comments (often ripped out of context) only Hitler (and his puppets) CHANGED the whole thing from anti-Jewish RELIGION to anti-Jewish RACE. And this raised these things to public knowledge. Ironically, AFTER Hitler, this continued - suggesting Luther was against the Jewish race when he clearly had nothing whatsoever against the race, he was against all religions that denied Christ and the Gospel.
Perhaps the Lutheran Church should have made it known as a pre-emptive strike instead of circling the wagon.
 

prism

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Hiding in plain sight...From Luther's Works V47 in the preface to "The Jews and Their Lies" is a plausible explanation...

key figures in both the Protestant and the Roman Catholic camps had issued blasts against the Jews. The Strassburg Reformer Martin Bucer published a treatise On the Jews in 1539 which caused him to be regarded by the Jews, for the time being, as their chief antagonist among the Protestants. Compared with Luther’s subsequent proposals, however, Bucer’s program for dealing with the Jews was relatively moderate, though the area of overlap is obvious. No new synagogues were to be built. The Jews were to refrain from “insulting” Christianity, and were to be compelled to attend Christian sermons. They were to abjure whatever the Talmud had added to the Scriptures, to be barred from all business activity, and to be assigned to menial tasks. The Jews, Bucer declared, are implacable foes of the true faith, just like the papists and the Turks.

Luther, M. (1999). Luther’s works, vol. 47: The Christian in Society IV (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald, & H. T. Lehmann, Eds.; Vol. 47, p. 129). Fortress Press.

Apparently the mindset of the Middle Ages was strife with antisemitic sentiment and Luther was awash in that type of thinking.
 

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Hiding in plain sight...From Luther's Works V47 in the preface to "The Jews and Their Lies" is a plausible explanation...

key figures in both the Protestant and the Roman Catholic camps had issued blasts against the Jews. The Strassburg Reformer Martin Bucer published a treatise On the Jews in 1539 which caused him to be regarded by the Jews, for the time being, as their chief antagonist among the Protestants. Compared with Luther’s subsequent proposals, however, Bucer’s program for dealing with the Jews was relatively moderate, though the area of overlap is obvious. No new synagogues were to be built. The Jews were to refrain from “insulting” Christianity, and were to be compelled to attend Christian sermons. They were to abjure whatever the Talmud had added to the Scriptures, to be barred from all business activity, and to be assigned to menial tasks. The Jews, Bucer declared, are implacable foes of the true faith, just like the papists and the Turks.

Luther, M. (1999). Luther’s works, vol. 47: The Christian in Society IV (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald, & H. T. Lehmann, Eds.; Vol. 47, p. 129). Fortress Press.

Apparently the mindset of the Middle Ages was strife with antisemitic sentiment and Luther was awash in that type of thinking.

You keep calling it antisemitism when in fact it was against the religion.
 

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The things I like to point out when people bring up certain things that Luther has said is that

  • Lutherans don't "follow" Luther. We're Christian. We don't adhere to everything Luther wrote.
  • You need to look at the time period when addressing things that were written.
  • Luther changed his mind about things throughout his life, so take that into consideration.
  • Not in this conversation, but in others, people take things out of context, and that is key to understanding what Luther's intentions were in some of his writings.
 

Josiah

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Hiding in plain sight...From Luther's Works V47 in the preface to "The Jews and Their Lies" is a plausible explanation...

key figures in both the Protestant and the Roman Catholic camps had issued blasts against the Jews. The Strassburg Reformer Martin Bucer published a treatise On the Jews in 1539 which caused him to be regarded by the Jews, for the time being, as their chief antagonist among the Protestants. Compared with Luther’s subsequent proposals, however, Bucer’s program for dealing with the Jews was relatively moderate, though the area of overlap is obvious. No new synagogues were to be built. The Jews were to refrain from “insulting” Christianity, and were to be compelled to attend Christian sermons. They were to abjure whatever the Talmud had added to the Scriptures, to be barred from all business activity, and to be assigned to menial tasks. The Jews, Bucer declared, are implacable foes of the true faith, just like the papists and the Turks.

Luther, M. (1999). Luther’s works, vol. 47: The Christian in Society IV (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald, & H. T. Lehmann, Eds.; Vol. 47, p. 129). Fortress Press.

Apparently the mindset of the Middle Ages was strife with antisemitic sentiment and Luther was awash in that type of thinking.

@prism


This preface reinforces and supports the point that there was a passionate anti-JUDAISM among many Christians. It says nothing of being anti-Semitic (anti some race or ethnic group regardless of their religious beliefs). There was a rejection of the Jewish RELIGION, not the Hebrew RACE. Christians did not approve of religions that denied Christ and rejected the Gospel. While their polemics SO TYPICAL of the day is shocking to us in our age of hyper "Political Correctness," the point was against the repudiation of Christ, it was not a repudiation of a race.

Because in German (as in English) "Jew" can refer both to a religion and to a race, it was easy for Hitler to (mis)quote Luther and suggest this German was anti-Semitic - against the Jewish RACE, and this mischaracterization continues today, even by those who repudiate Hitler. But it is clear Luther was not anti-Semitic and this is obvious at many points, for example, to use the primary factor of his day, a baptized Hebrew was fully and completely embraced by Luther (and Christians in general) - in every way equal to a Christian German or Italian or whatever.



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prism

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There still seems to be a lot of wishy-washy with Luther. First , he courts the Jews, then appx. 15 years later, he castigates them. Could he have been influenced by Anton Margaritha (see quote in post #9)?, Otherwise it doesn't make much sense.
 

Josiah

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There still seems to be a lot of wishy-washy with Luther.

Not at all.

1. Luther - like virtually every Christian until modern times - was against religions that denied Christ and the Christian Gospel.

2. Luther was never against the Jewish RACE but rather against all non-Christian religions, including Judaism.

3. Luther hoped those embracing the Jewish religion would convert to Christianity and became increasingly frustrated when he saw that not happening.



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Luther is much in evidence in today's Lutheran churches, which is not the case with every Christian denomination and their own founders. Still, he's not considered by Lutherans to have been perfect. And he was a normal German of his time as well. So that, and his disappointment, late in life, at the fact that the Jews were not converting to Christianity once reform had been achieved, led to what you are talking about. There really is nothing in this for any Lutheran today to apologize for.
Luther was very upset with being rejected by the Jews of his region. The resentment ran deep. Afterall, Luther fashioned the Protestant Canon after their Tanakh. That was a mistake ( for another thread) because many Hebrew works were removed under false pretenses.

Luther came to say about the Jews who threw him out of their villages " Dogs all of them, vile creatures who should have their property confiscated and their liberties curtailed ". He would have treated them as the Catholic hierarchy did if he had the power at that time.

Unfortunately, because of Blood 🩸 Libel sacrifices by Talmudic Jews , of innocent Christian children especially and adults, this certain type who call themselves Jews were made to live in ghettos and their Talmuds were confiscated and burned. When they talk about their "persecutions" for simply being " Jews" they fail to mention why they were expelled from 109 countries. It was because of their Blood Libel sacrifices of the goyim for power. They are disingenuous about the history when they are very familar with this practice. Heck, even someone in here would argue blood sacrifice is for gain no matter who it is, especially concerning the crucifixion of Christ. I won't name names.

Funny thing is, the people who think that way wouldn't want to be the recipient of someone's Blood Libel of them or their loved ones. Very jaded beliefs especially if you say you are Christian🤔
 
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