Nikki Haley's next move

[Albion]

Populism is bad. Especially right wing populism.

Populism is good when it's left wing populism. Tax the nasty rich people and gimmedat.

Ah, I see now. 'Bad populism' is being protective of the people's rights and being popular with the people as a result, while 'good populism' takes over all decision-making from the people--for their own good of course. Thanks.

But there is one other thing. Why is it that the 'good populists' are backed by the millionaires and billionaires and outspend their opponents during election campaigns...if it's the opposite populists, the bad populists, who are supposedly the ones who are 'for the rich?'

 

[Albion]

We live in a nation of laws. Once it was clear that he would not keep the presidency (just or unjustly) he only made things worse by continuing to try and find "loopholes" that would allow him to stay in office. That strategy was bad judgement. It just makes it easier for Biden to keep Democrats fired up about beating him again.

Whoa. Did Trump actually resort to illegal steps when trying to get a closer look at the election results in only a few swing states which had experienced hundreds of reports about election irregularities.

I do know, of course, that the other political party wasted no time in calling him an election denier and a threat to democracy just as they'd twice impeached him for no clear reasons and campaigned on the false allegation that he was in cahoots with Putin and Russia. Surely, we cannot think back on these events and conclude that what happened was no more or less than what the campaign slogans used by the opposition party said.

My problem was not him pressing the point. It was that when the courts ruled against him and all paths to staying President were gone he should have bowed out and accepted the decision of the courts. At that point he could have started running for reelection again without the cloud of January 6th hanging over him.

LOL His 'problem' with January 6 is the baseless version of those events disseminated by the opposition party, not what actually happened then and there.

 

[Lanman87]

Whoa. Did Trump actually resort to illegal steps when trying to get a closer look at the election results in only a few swing states which had experienced hundreds of reports about election irregularities.

The courts (many with Judges appointed by Trump) had ruled that there was not sufficient evident of election fraud to invalidate the election results. Trumps legal team presented evidence and the courts ruled it didn't meet the threshold needed to overturn the election. Whether there was or not, at that point didn't matter. The courts had ruled that there was not election fraud. Therefore any attempt to overturn the election by claims of election fraud would be considered illegal.

The accusation is that Trump didn't agree with the court findings so he tried to influence electors to change their vote. If he did so, then he broke the law. I don't know if he did or not, eventually a jury will decide. At any rate, it is clear he did more than "Try to get a closer look at the election results".

And yes, the other party used and is using this against him. If he had not been so obtuse then they would not have his actions to use against him. It didn't gain him anything, as he didn't get the election overturned, he has federal charges against him, and the democrats have ammo to use against him in the general election. His actions reflect poor judgement and hubris.

 

[Albion]

The courts (many with Judges appointed by Trump) had ruled that there was not sufficient evident of election fraud to invalidate the election results. Trumps legal team presented evidence and the courts ruled it didn't meet the threshold needed to overturn the election. Whether there was or not, at that point didn't matter. The courts had ruled that there was not election fraud. Therefore any attempt to overturn the election by claims of election fraud would be considered illegal.

And yes, the other party used and is using this against him. If he had not been so obtuse then they would not have his actions to use against him. It didn't gain him anything, as he didn't get the election overturned, he has federal charges against him, and the democrats have ammo to use against him in the general election. His actions reflect poor judgement and hubris.

Better just to let my question go unanswered than to cobble together a rant like that one!

 

[Lees]

The topic of the original post was Nikki Haley's next move. I was opening up dialogue on what she will do now that it is clear she isn't going to win the nomination.

My point was you didn't have an original question. Which you didn't.

Yes, Haley probably won't win, because Trump will win. The voters still support Trump. Which goes against everything you have to say.

Lees

 

[Josiah]

Yes, Haley probably won't win, because Trump will win.

I think everyone here has indicated that Trump will get the nomination of the Republican Party.

But the several polls I've seen indicate he won't win the election. Or at least, he's well within the margin of error. Both Haley and DeSantis beat Biden. Of course, no matter, Trump will shout that HE won. No matter what. No matter what.

The voters still support Trump.

Well, most Republicans will. But then most Republicans would support whoever the Republican nominee is.



.

 

[Lees]

I'm talking about the 2020 Election. When all the court options were gone and it was clear the election was not going to be overturned he should have conceded that there was no path to keep him in office. He shouldn't have taken part in the Jan 6th rally and left town quietly. That doesn't mean he had to agree that the election wasn't rigged. But by continuing his quest to overturn the Election he, and his staff, probably broke Federal Law and brought trouble on himself and, for that matter, the country as a whole.

We live in a nation of laws. Once it was clear that he would not keep the presidency (just or unjustly) he only made things worse by continuing to try and find "loopholes" that would allow him to stay in office. That strategy was bad judgement. It just makes it easier for Biden to keep Democrats fired up about beating him again.

My comment has nothing to do with him being the "front runner" for the Republican Nomination or the eventual outcome of the November Election.

Sorry, but you're position is that Trump's support will not last. And the fact that Trump is the front runner destroys your position.

Yes, you would have liked Trump to take the cowards way out so your swamp can be maintained. But he doesn't. And look at the results. He is the front runner.

We live in a nation where laws are bent in order to prosecute someone you don't like. Just like Democrat liberals are doing to Trump. How many laws have they broken in doing that?

Lees

 

[Lees]

I think everyone here has indicated that Trump will get the nomination of the Republican Party.

But the several polls I've seen indicate he won't win the election. Or at least, he's well within the margin of error. Both Haley and DeSantis beat Biden. Of course, no matter, Trump will shout that HE won. No matter what. No matter what.




Well, most Republicans will. But then most Republicans would support whoever the Republican nominee is.

Trump won't win because the Democrat leftest liberals will find some way to stop him other than the legal vote. They will pervert the justice system in some way to do so. They have already proven they are willing to go that far.

People should vote for Trump because he is conservative and not made from the swamp.

Lees

 

[Lanman87]

Sorry, but you're position is that Trump's support will not last. And the fact that Trump is the front runner destroys your position.

I haven't made any comment on if Trump's support will last or not. We don't know what will happen. There are a lot of variables in play and a lot of things can and will happen between now and November that will effect the outcome of the election.

Saying I think he is a terrible candidate and that other republicans would have an easier time winning, and that I believe they would make for a more effective President does not mean that I think he is destined to lose in November.

Trump won't win because the Democrat leftest liberals will find some way to stop him other than the legal vote.

So you think it is impossible for Biden to get more actual votes than Trump? And that any vote tally that says otherwise must be fraudulent?

 

[Albion]

It's interesting in a way to realize that people who say they're Conservative and/or Republican do not want Trump as the GOP's nominee, yet there is no other Conservative Republican in the race for the nomination, AND they also say that they will not vote for Trump themselves.

This means being willing to have Biden as President for another year or two with Kamala ascending to the Presidency for the remainder of that term in office.

So, a question that ought to be asked is this: "What good is it to be politically conservative if you are just as willing to have Conservative and Constitutional principles suppressed as a result of the November election?"

There is one possible answer, which is that a Conservative might find it a violation of his conscience to vote for Trump, but that he privately would like for Trump to win the 2024 election without his vote. Except that I haven't noticed any self-professed Conservatives taking that approach.

 

[Lanman87]

et there is no other Conservative Republican in the race for the nomination,

I would argue that Haley, DeSantis, and Scott all count as conservative republicans that are viable candidates. I've seen no evidence that they are anything else. I've seen people claim they are not conservative but that is just typical election rhetoric. I would have called Christy a moderate.

Had the nominating process made it to my state with those three still in the race I would have voted for one of them.

 

[Lanman87]

There is one possible answer, which is that a Conservative might find it a violation of his conscience to vote for Trump, but that he privately would like for Trump to win the 2024 election without his vote. Except that I haven't noticed any self-professed Conservatives taking that approach.

That was my approach in the last two elections. I could not, in good conscious, vote for Trump. To do so would have made me a hypocrite for telling people that shouldn't vote for Clinton because of his moral/personal failures. However, I realized that Trump winning would have been better than Hillary Clinton winning (who is, IMHO, the worst modern candidate in history from either party). As I said earlier, If I lived in a swing state I would have held my nose and voted for Trump.

This year I'm even more hesitant to vote for Trump, not just because of his moral/personal/demeanor failures. But because of his lack of judgement, age (I think he is almost as bad as Biden), and statements about NATO. Honestly, I think either Biden or Trump will be a dumpster fire for the next four years. That is why I was hoping one of the other Republicans would catch fire and overtake Trump, either because people liked them so much or because Trump did something to self-implode, opening the door for someone else. I'm really disappointed that neither has happened.

 

[Albion]

I would argue that Haley, DeSantis, and Scott all count as conservative republicans that are viable candidates.

Well, DeSantis and Scott are not in the race for the nomination anymore, so they aren't involved. Were they still in contention (if they ever were), then my perspective would have to be tempered for awhile. Haley is certainly not a Conservative and has almost no chance at the nomination anyway.

Then too, perhaps we are making too much out of this whole matter if people who are not actually Conservatives themselves have been thought to be Conservatives because of their postings.

 

[Lanman87]

Haley is certainly not a Conservative

I disagree.

What, exactly, has she done to make you think she isn't conservative?

 

[tango]

Ah, I see now. 'Bad populism' is being protective of the people's rights and being popular with the people as a result, while 'good populism' takes over all decision-making from the people--for their own good of course. Thanks.

But there is one other thing. Why is it that the 'good populists' are backed by the millionaires and billionaires and outspend their opponents during election campaigns...if it's the opposite populists, the bad populists, who are supposedly the ones who are 'for the rich?'

Bad populism is what appeals to the deplorables. You know, the ones who just don't know what's best for them and so need Nanny State to explain it and make it all happen. People who might do really radical things, like drink raw milk or think for themselves.

Good populism is what happens when the little people finally figure out what's good for them and just want the government to step in and do what is right. Because we all know the government is always right. War is peace and all that. If the government does what we don't like it's for our own good, and to object is to be a bad populist.

On a more serious note it is curious to see the very wealthy saying they should be taxed more. It's not difficult to send a check for extra money to the Treasury department if you really believe you should be paying more. If you're a billionaire you can probably even pay someone to do it for you, if you really can't figure it out for yourself. Presumably what the very rich are really trying to say is "let the wealthy be taxed, while the very wealthy like us just find another way to avoid paying anything". Rather like the people who fly around the world in their private jets to find new ways to convince the little people that cows farting are an existential threat so we need to give up our cars and eat beetles.

 

[Albion]

I disagree.

What, exactly, has she done to make you think she isn't conservative?

You might start by hearing from Sen. Rand Paul. Unfortunately for us, in this video he hit on only a few of the issues that other Conservatives have pointed to.

Never Nikki

Let's stand together and say Never Nikki. Not now. Not ever.

nevernikki.net

 

[Lanman87]

I agree with Nikki Haley about the war in Ukraine and think it would be a huge mistake to stop funding the Ukraine. If Trump stops funding the Ukraine and gets us out of NATO he is asking for WWIII. Just like the two previous wars in Europe, we will eventually be involved no matter what.

Nikki is actually taking the traditional conservative republican position that is the best path for insuring we don't go to war with Russia in the near future. It is Trump and the isolationist (Like Rand Paul) who are not following the conservative position.

You can claim her position is the wrong position but it is the position of Republican's going all the way back to Nixon.

Edit to add: The only reason Republicans are against aide to Ukraine is because Biden is for it.

Edit again to add this: More Republicans in the House have been Pro-Ukraine that those against it. To say that supporting Ukraine is not a republican position is false. The Republican party is divided about it, but many prominent republicans have the same views as Nikki Haley.

 

[Albion]

You've made several tries at a rebuttal there, but none of them work.

 

[Lanman87]

You've made several tries at a rebuttal there, but none of them work.

How about providing an instance where she indorses liberal positions on the border, taxes, or abortion.

 

[Albion]

First, it's not a black and white, issues-only, approach that explains why she is so vehemently opposed by leading Conservatives. Using that kind of checklist doesn't get at the problems.

Second, she IS on the Conservative side with some issues. But that doesn't settle the matter, even if you or I have one or two concerns that take precedence over others that are important to many Conservatives.

To then 'get at' the heart of the question, read the following article. It will save me a lot of time guessing what the key issues are for you, and which departures you'd excuse, and so on. I do not endorse everything in this article, but I think it covers most of the ground that other critics (including Senator Paul) have covered--

Here's the Never-Ending List of Why Nikki Haley Would Suck as President - Revolver News

Nikki Haley will do whatever it takes to get the future GOP nomination. and conservatives should do whatever it takes to stop her.

revolver.news