Immaculate Conception

Jazzy

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Where in the Bible does the concept of (Mary being sinless) Immaculate Conception come from?
 

Lamb

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Mary being sinless is a Catholic concept as far as I know. It's not written in the bible.
 

Josiah

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We need a KNOWLEDGEABLE Catholic to weigh in....

Without me carefully reviewing the Catechism etc;., I'm not SURE the Catholic view is that Mary was sinless... this doctrine has to do with original sin, the "stain of original sin." She did need to be saved and forgiven, she did need the Savior.

@Jazzy While I think it's obvious that this teaching is not specifically, clearly taught in the words of Scripture, it's important to remember that that's not the rubric that the RCC uses. Indeed, it mocks that approach. It uses what some call "the three-legged-stool" - three entirely inseparable and intertwined things: 1) Scripture - but not specially the words on the page but what those words "mean" the meaning being the point, not the words, and the RCC itself alone determines that meaning, a meaning that complies with the teachings of it itself. PLUS ALSO 2) Tradition. But not ecumenical or Christian tradition but the tradition of the RCC itself alone as determined by the RCC alone and complies with the teachings of the RCC itself, PLUS ALSO 3) the Leadership (Magisterium) of the RCC itself alone, what the Bishops of the RCC alone teach and believe. There 3 things are the source and norm for teachings of the RCC, no ONE thing can be used.

While I disagree with that rubric (seems entirely circular and self-serving), I also think it's unfair to subject a church or faith community to a rubric it does not accept.


Blessings

- Josiah


.
 
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Castle Church

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I'm not SURE the Catholic view is that Mary was sinless
Unfortunately (IMO) that is the RC view:
CCC 493: "By the grace of God Mary remained free from every personal sin her whole life long"
 

Josiah

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Albion

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Mary being sinless is a Catholic concept as far as I know. It's not written in the bible.
The doctrine is based upon Luke 1:28-30 in which the angel Gabriel declares to Mary that she was favored (or highly favored) by God. Virtually every Bible translation uses these words, but the old Roman Catholic translation, the Douay version, has it as "full of grace," which allows the church to say that this means she couldn't have any room for sin because she is literally full of its opposite.

It is worth noting that the most popular and widely used Catholic Bible translation, the New American Standard Bible, has it as ""Rejoice, oh highly favored daughter! The Lord is with you Blessed are you among women."

The teaching also is allegedly verified by a variety of other words found here or there in the Bible which, with a lot of effort, it might be possible to infer that Mary was sinless. For example, the reference to her as a new Eve. (Personally, I don't see that comparison as substantiating the idea of Mary being sinless either at her conception, at the Annunciation, or for the rest of her life.)
 
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bbas 64

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Good day,

Noted Scholar from the Roman Catholic denomination notes:

Raymond E. Brown: Some Roman Catholics may have expected me to include a discussion of the historicity of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary. But these Marian doctrines, which are not mentioned in Scripture, clearly lie outside my topic which was the quest for historical knowledge of Mary in the NT. Moreover, I would stress the ambiguity of the term “historicity” when applied to these two doctrines. A Roman Catholic must accept the two dogmas as true upon the authority of the teaching Church, but he does not have to hold that the dogmas are derived from a chain of historical information. There is no evidence that Mary (or anyone else in NT times) knew that she was conceived free of original sin, especially since the concept of original sin did not fully exist in the first century. The dogma is not based upon information passed down by Mary or by the apostles; it is based on the Church’s insight that the sinlessness of Jesus should have affected his origins, and hence his mother, as well. Nor does a Catholic have to think that the people gathered for her funeral saw Mary assumed into heaven—there is no reliable historical tradition to that effect, and the dogma does not even specify that Mary died. Once again the doctrine stems from the Church’s insight about the application of the fruits of redemption to the leading disciple: Mary has gone before us, anticipating our common fate. Raymond E. Brown, Biblical Reflections on Crises facing the Church (New York: Paulist Press, 1975), p. 105, fn. 103.



In Him,

Bill
 
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