"Works of the Law"

[Lanman87]

How do you define "Works of the Law" as Paul used them in Romans and Galatians?

The Old Testament rituals, feast, and animal sacrifices.

All of the Mosaic Law, including the 10 Commandments and moral law.

I have always used the second meaning. Say that when Paul says, "We are justified by faith apart from works of the law" to mean that no amount of either ritual or morality justifies us before God. Which is why we say "Faith alone". If being religious by following religious services and rules can't save us and our moral goodness can't save us, then the only think left is "Faith".

Thoughts...

 

[Albion]

I don't believe I've ever had a discussion with someone who held that attending worship services or following some similar religious rules would constitute "good works" that would contribute to the person's chances of being saved. Performing actual works of mercy such as those advocated by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, yes, but not the act of being present at Mass, etc.

 

[Lanman87]

I don't believe I've ever had a discussion with someone who held that attending worship services or following some similar religious rules would constitute "good works" that would contribute to the person's chances of being saved. Performing actual works of mercy such as those advocated by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, yes, but not the act of being present at Mass, etc.

I've had someone say to me that "Works of the Law" only includes the ceremonial laws and not the moral laws written in the Mosaic law. Basically, that being "Justified apart from works of the Law" doesn't mean our moral and good works don't play a role in our salvation.

Basically, they are Catholics who get the Catholic position wrong. From my understanding, Catholic theology affirms that "Initial Justification" only comes through faith (given at or affirmed by Baptism) but that ongoing "Justification" is by both Faith and Good Works (and by taking the Sacraments from a Catholic Priest, they will not say that out loud but that is what they actually teach).

From what I can tell, Catholics believe we are initially saved by "Faith Alone" but we maintain that salvation by our cooperation with Grace. This would include avoiding sin (Keeping the 10 commandments), doing "Works of Love", and living a "Sacramental Life".

While most Protestants would say that we are completely saved, from beginning to end, by "Faith Alone". And that our cooperation with Grace comes not in order to maintain Grace, but as a result of having received (and continuing to receive) grace through faith.

Anyway, that is why I asked this question. To see if anyone else had ran into someone who think "Works of the Law" doesn't include being Moral/Good/Loving toward others.

 

[Albion]

I've had someone say to me that "Works of the Law" only includes the ceremonial laws and not the moral laws written in the Mosaic law. Basically, that being "Justified apart from works of the Law" doesn't mean our moral and good works don't play a role in our salvation.

Yes, I can see several different ways of looking at this question, and I have to confess that I was uncertain how best to reply to your post. It's not that the post was poorly written or anything like that, but I couldn't be sure how to start to answer it.

Nevertheless, and as I wrote, I can't recall talking with anyone who argued that attending worship services, etc. constituted "Works" that would contribute (along with Faith) towards the person's prospects of salvation. I'm sure that there are some people somewhere like that, because when it comes to religious belief and practice, there's always an exception somewhere, but I'm thinking that this isn't the real answer to your inquiry.

Catholics of course believe that salvation comes from Faith PLUS Works, not Faith Alone, but the question still requires a definition of Works, and to my knowledge, those Works are believed by Catholics to be acts of mercy (the proverbial 'helping an old lady across the street' stuff--kindness, helpfulness, charity, etc.).

From what I can tell, Catholics believe we are initially saved by "Faith Alone" but we maintain that salvation by our cooperation with Grace. This would include avoiding sin (Keeping the 10 commandments), doing "Works of Love", and living a "Sacramental Life".

Okay. Without quibbling over a term used here or there, it looks like you are agreeing with my point above. The "Works" in question are voluntary works of mercy, a changed lifestyle in other words, not the performance of a lot of church duties.

Anyway, that is why I asked this question. To see if anyone else had ran into someone who think "Works of the Law" doesn't include being Moral/Good/Loving toward others.

Again, I can't imagine that there are very many who fit that description, and the way it was worded here is certainly not the attitude of the Roman Catholic Church, even though the Church does reject Faith Alone in favor of Faith + Works.

 

[brightfame52]

Technically anything we may make as an condition we must act on in order to be pleasing to God and He favors us with salvation because of it, and if the condition isn't performed by us we are penalized with loss of salvation and Gods favor, is law keeping salvation.