Unitarian

[Romanos]

I have seen Unitarians who will fight the Trinity tooth and nail, what would you say is their biggest advocate they claim to have?

 

[Messy]

Isaiah 9:5
There was once an online fight between a modalist and a trinitarian and the modalist said the Father died on the cross, so the O.T. God who was sometimes unfriendly ceased to exist and was replaced by Jesus, who is always sweet. So the trinitarian had studied theology I think, cause he explained it all very well, but the modalist didn't listen to anything and said Isaiah 9:5 Jesus is called eternal Father. And he kept saying that like a parrot and nothing else, but he did have a point. He dismissed any text, but we dismissed that one text and when you look at Jesus then on earth He was 3 in one, because the Father was in Him and the Holy Spirit. In Him the fulness of the Godhead dwells bodily. Thus He could be called eternal Father. God is one. So fighting about the Trinity is as silly as fighting about if Jesus on earth was one Person or 3 Persons in One. And then the O.T. That's very obvious with the Angel of the Lord that He's more than one Person, but the Trinity is a stumbling block for Jews and it's not a requirement for salvation to believe the Trinity, so I'm like who cares, let them. I don't think Abraham believed that God is a Trinity and he's saved. All these people in the O.T. thought they would drop dead when they saw Jesus before incarnation, cause they saw God and it didn't matter that they didn't believe that picture with Father is not Son etc. Only when they say Jesus is an angel or something, that's dangerous.

 

[Albion]

So the trinitarian had studied theology I think, cause he explained it all very well, but the modalist didn't listen to anything and said Isaiah 9:5 Jesus is called eternal Father. And he kept saying that like a parrot and nothing else,...

Sorta like being here on Christianity Haven.

 

[Ammi]

Ignorance.

 

[Romanos]

We have had some Unitarian members here on CH, and I know in the past one was not very happy they could not post in the forums reserved for those who accept the Trinity and Nicene Creed.

 

[wrecked]

We have had some Unitarian members here on CH, and I know in the past one was not very happy they could not post in the forums reserved for those who accept the Trinity and Nicene Creed.

That might be me. Trinity is diabolical nonsense. It's the most murderous and divisive doctrine to ever enter this debacle of a religion. People are moving away from the trinity. About 40% of believers now say Trinity is bogus.

Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them,[k] FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

The hypostatic union came about in 451 and was the only way trinitarians were able to overcome Trinity's multiple co-equal contradictions. Trinity DESTROYS the atonement. If Jesus was God that makes him a fraud and the cross a hoax.

The bible says he was tempted IN EVERY WAY AND THAT HE KNEW TEMPTATION. It also says, "God cannot be tempted and therefore cannot sin."

If Jesus was God that means he could not have sinned anyway. (Back to the only Trinitarian answer of TWO NATURES) That makes the Word of God totally contradictory - makes Jesus a fraud because he never would have to overcome sin since he - also being God - couldn't have been tempted to sin anyway - ultimately making him a fraud and the cross a complete hoax and the atonement for sin a complete hoax - think about it.

 

[wrecked]

Ignorance.

Trinitarians ignore Jesus' own words.

Jesus said 'the Father is greater'. I believe him.

He said he doesn't know the day and hour of his return. I believe him.

He said he can do NOTHING on his own. I believe him.

Over and over again, Jesus acknowledges his subordination to the Father. How do Trinitarians overcome these clear contradictions of co-equality?

In every instance where the word 'firstborn' is used, whether it's about the firstborn among the brethren, or the firstborn over all creation, or the firstborn from among the dead, or the firstborn into the world - or anything else - it always implies a beginning! NOT ONCE does it imply ETERNAL. The Textus Receptus uses the terminology, "BEFORE-most-BROUGHT-FORTH."

Ahhhhhhhh - but everything revolves around the nonsense of a hypostatic union...AKA TWO NATURES - another concoction of the devils.

Bible says GOD CANNOT BE A MAN!

 

[Josiah]

That might be me. Trinity is diabolical nonsense. It's the most murderous and divisive doctrine to ever enter this debacle of a religion. People are moving away from the trinity. About 40% of believers now say Trinity is bogus.

Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them,[k] FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

The hypostatic union came about in 451 and was the only way trinitarians were able to overcome Trinity's multiple co-equal contradictions. Trinity DESTROYS the atonement. If Jesus was God that makes him a fraud and the cross a hoax.

The bible says he was tempted IN EVERY WAY AND THAT HE KNEW TEMPTATION. It also says, "God cannot be tempted and therefore cannot sin."

If Jesus was God that means he could not have sinned anyway. (Back to the only Trinitarian answer of TWO NATURES) That makes the Word of God totally contradictory - makes Jesus a fraud because he never would have to overcome sin since he - also being God - couldn't have been tempted to sin anyway - ultimately making him a fraud and the cross a complete hoax and the atonement for sin a complete hoax - think about it.

You seem to confuse two DIFFERENT doctrines: The Two Natures of Christ and the Trinity. Both are biblical and true - neither the other or dependent upon the other.

The Trinity simply accepts that the Bible (and Tradition) speak of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit as "GOD" yet insists there is only one God. Thus... three yet one. With no attempt to "explain" this or subject God to physics.

The Two Natues of Christ simply accepts that the BIble (and Tradition) speak of Jesus as both human and divine. So both are accepted.

The "problem" (and a host of heresies) arise when fallen, sinful, limited people declare that they are smarter than God and know more about God than God does and that what God reveals in His Bible is wrong because it disagrees with them.

IMO, this website is sound in limiting those who deny one or both of these teachings to certain forums. They aren't limited in saying what they want - just where.



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[wrecked]

You seem to confuse two DIFFERENT doctrines: The Two Natures of Christ and the Trinity. Both are biblical and true - neither the other or dependent upon the other.

The Trinity simply accepts that the Bible (and Tradition) speak of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit as "GOD" yet insists there is only one God. Thus... three yet one. With no attempt to "explain" this or subject God to physics.

The Two Natues of Christ simply accepts that the BIble (and Tradition) speak of Jesus as both human and divine. So both are accepted.

The "problem" (and a host of heresies) arise when fallen, sinful, limited people declare that they are smarter than God and know more about God than God does and that what God reveals in His Bible is wrong because it disagrees with them.

IMO, this website is sound in limiting those who deny one or both of these teachings to certain forums. They aren't limited in saying what they want - just where.



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Sorry big guy but the hypostatic union is part of the Trinity doctrine.

The "problem" (and a host of heresies) arise when fallen, sinful, limited people declare that they are smarter than God and know more about God than God does and that what God reveals in His Bible is wrong because it disagrees with them.

That's precisely how the trinity doctrine came about! People disagreeing with Jesus' own words!

 

[Josiah]

Sorry big guy but the hypostatic union is part of the Trinity doctrine.

Sorry big guy but nope, it's a part of the Two Natures of Christ. Hypostatic union - Wikipedia

That's precisely how the trinity doctrine came about! People disagreeing with Jesus' own words!

Sorry big guy but it's the exact opposite: the doctrine of the Trinity simply accepts what the Bible says, it's the unitarians who are convinced God is wrong about Himself but they understand it all better.



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[Albion]

Sorry big guy but the hypostatic union is part of the Trinity doctrine.

He's correct about this. You are mistaken about the matter.

That's precisely how the trinity doctrine came about! People disagreeing with Jesus' own words!

Jesus also claimed that he was God, so how does that square with your various references to him asserting that he was a human?

 

[wrecked]

Sorry big guy but nope, it's a part of the Two Natures of Christ. Hypostatic union - Wikipedia





Sorry big guy but it's the exact opposite: the doctrine of the Trinity simply accepts what the Bible says, it's the unitarians who are convinced God is wrong about Himself but they understand it all better.



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You need to go back to school. Jesus of the bible DEBUNKS trinity! I believe Jesus at his word and NOT some Trinitarian OR Unitarian.

Your comment makes zero sense and proves you know jack crap about this issue. Anybody who replies with comments like...

it's the unitarians who are convinced God is wrong about Himself but they understand it all better.

God is right - Trinitarians have perverted His Word.

 

[wrecked]

He's correct about this. You are mistaken about the matter.

Jesus also claimed that he was God, so how does that square with your various references to him asserting that he was a human?

Where did Jesus claim he was God. If he did not only is he a liar, he's a fraud!

 

[wrecked]

He's correct about this. You are mistaken about the matter.

Jesus also claimed that he was God, so how does that square with your various references to him asserting that he was a human?

Neither of you have a clue about the hypostatic union.

 

[Josiah]

You need to go back to school.

Big guy, obviously you need to go back to school The hypostatic union has to do with the Two Natures of Christ, not the Trinity.

Jesus of the bible DEBUNKS trinity!

Big guy, you need to go back to school. NOTHING Jesus says debunks the rest of the Bible that indicates that God the Father is God, God the Son is God, God the Holy Spirit is God.... yet there is one God. God is right.



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[Josiah]

Where did Jesus claim he was God.

Thomas worshiped Jesus saying "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28), Jesus responded with commendation rather than condemnation.

Jesus claimed to be the unique Son of God. As a result, the Jewish leaders tried to kill Him because in "calling God his own Father, [Jesus was] making himself equal with God" (John 5:18 NIV). In John 8:58 Jesus went so far as to use the very words by which God revealed Himself to Moses from the burning bush (Exodus 3:14). To the Jews this was the epitome of blasphemy, for they knew that in doing so Jesus was clearly claiming to be God. On yet another occasion, Jesus explicitly told the Jews: " 'I and the Father are one.' Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, 'I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?' 'We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God' " (John 10:30-33).

Furthermore, Jesus made an unmistakable claim to deity before the Chief Priests and the whole Sanhedrin. Caiaphas the High Priest asked him: " 'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' 'I am,' said Jesus. 'And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven' " (Mark 14:61-62 NIV). A biblically illiterate person might well have missed the import of Jesus' words. Caiaphas and the Council, however, did not. They knew that in saying he was "the Son of Man" who would come "on the clouds of heaven" he was making an overt reference to the Son of Man in Daniel's prophecy (Daniel 7:13-14). In doing so, He was not only claiming to be the preexistent Sovereign of the Universe but also prophesying that He would vindicate His claim by judging the very court that was now condemning Him. Moreover, by combining Daniel's prophecy with David's proclamation in Psalm 110, Jesus was claiming that He would sit upon the throne of Israel's God and share God's very glory. To students of the Old Testament this was the height of "blasphemy," thus "they all condemned him as worthy of death" (Mark 14:64-65).

Finally, Jesus claimed to possess the very attributes of God. For example, He claimed omniscience by telling Peter, "This very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times" (Matthew 26:34); declared omnipotence by not only resurrecting Lazarus (John 11:43) but by raising Himself from the dead (see John 2:19); and professed omnipresence by promising He would be with His disciples "to the very end of the age" (Matthew 28:20). Not only so, but Jesus said to the paralytic in Luke 5:20, "Friend, your sins are forgiven". In doing so, He claimed a prerogative reserved for God alone.



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[wrecked]

Big guy, obviously you need to go back to school The hypostatic union has to do with the Two Natures of Christ, not the Trinity.




Big guy, you need to go back to school. NOTHING Jesus says debunks the rest of the Bible that indicates that God the Father is God, God the Son is God, God the Holy Spirit is God.... yet there is one God. God is right.



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I'm impressed. Do Trinitarians know what they actually believe???

 

[wrecked]

So who's the liar? Jesus who said the Father is Greater - or YOU and your Trinitarian buddies who say Jesus is equal to God the Father???

 

[Josiah]

Jesus who said the Father is Greater

Who is greater? An Marine private or a Marine general? President Biden or a baby still in the womb?

Look at a dictionary: Look up "greater." Nowhere will you see the definition, "Exclusively divine" or "I'm not divine."

Jesus is equal to God the Father???

Who says Jesus is equal to the Father? Some however do agree with the Bible that Jesus is divine - as much so as is the Father - but nowhere is it stated He thus is equal to the Father.



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[Josiah]

I'm impressed.

Good. You stated that Jesus never claimed to be divine. And you learned you're wrong.


Thomas worshiped Jesus saying "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28), Jesus responded with commendation rather than condemnation.

Jesus claimed to be the unique Son of God. As a result, the Jewish leaders tried to kill Him because in "calling God his own Father, [Jesus was] making himself equal with God" (John 5:18 NIV). In John 8:58 Jesus went so far as to use the very words by which God revealed Himself to Moses from the burning bush (Exodus 3:14). To the Jews this was the epitome of blasphemy, for they knew that in doing so Jesus was clearly claiming to be God. On yet another occasion, Jesus explicitly told the Jews: " 'I and the Father are one.' Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, 'I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?' 'We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God' " (John 10:30-33).

Furthermore, Jesus made an unmistakable claim to deity before the Chief Priests and the whole Sanhedrin. Caiaphas the High Priest asked him: " 'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' 'I am,' said Jesus. 'And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven' " (Mark 14:61-62 NIV). A biblically illiterate person might well have missed the import of Jesus' words. Caiaphas and the Council, however, did not. They knew that in saying he was "the Son of Man" who would come "on the clouds of heaven" he was making an overt reference to the Son of Man in Daniel's prophecy (Daniel 7:13-14). In doing so, He was not only claiming to be the preexistent Sovereign of the Universe but also prophesying that He would vindicate His claim by judging the very court that was now condemning Him. Moreover, by combining Daniel's prophecy with David's proclamation in Psalm 110, Jesus was claiming that He would sit upon the throne of Israel's God and share God's very glory. To students of the Old Testament this was the height of "blasphemy," thus "they all condemned him as worthy of death" (Mark 14:64-65).

Finally, Jesus claimed to possess the very attributes of God. For example, He claimed omniscience by telling Peter, "This very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times" (Matthew 26:34); declared omnipotence by not only resurrecting Lazarus (John 11:43) but by raising Himself from the dead (see John 2:19); and professed omnipresence by promising He would be with His disciples "to the very end of the age" (Matthew 28:20). Not only so, but Jesus said to the paralytic in Luke 5:20, "Friend, your sins are forgiven". In doing so, He claimed a prerogative reserved for God alone.



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