OT prayers compared to Jesus' prayer

[Lamb]

How different are the prayers of God's people in the Old Testament to Jesus' prayer, specifically the Lord's Prayer?

 

[SetFree]

Not sure what you're asking.

Lord Jesus showed us how to pray when His disciples asked Him. He showed to pray to our Heavenly Father. And we should end our prayer in the Name of Jesus Christ to represent our belonging to Him as our Mediator to The Father for us.

In the Old Testament times, they prayed to GOD The Father also, which includes The Son also (see Isaiah 9:6).

 

[Lees]

How different are the prayers of God's people in the Old Testament to Jesus' prayer, specifically the Lord's Prayer?

When you say 'Lord's prayer', I believe you mean the prayer found in (Matt. 6:9-15) or (Luke 11:1-4).

First, it should be said that this is not the prayer of the Lord Jesus. It is a model prayer for the disciples to follow. Jesus could never say it all as He never sinned and could not ask for forgiveness. Nor could He ask to not be led into temptation as He was led into temptation to prove the character and reality of Who He was.

Second, in it's entirety, neither is it for the Church. For forgiveness of sins in the Church is based upon our confession, not on forgiving others. (1 John 1:9) But much in it is applicable to the Church, and believers of any time period, because God is God at all times.

Because most of the Church understands this prayer to be for the Church, it has become a memorized and repeated prayer at many Church functions. Which I personally always enjoy saying and hearing, having memorized it a very young age. But, I always try to remember (Matt. 6:7) where Christ warned us of using 'vain repititions'. In other words, I don't think this prayer was meant for us to use the way we do many times.

Thirdly, I believe this prayer, what we call the Lord's prayer', is a model prayer for the Kingdom age. (Matt. 5-7) is the Sermon on the Mount and are the laws of the Kingdom. It is that Kingdom to come where Jesus rules on earth, in Jerusalem, over the world. The Millennial reign of Christ. Believers in Israel in the Tribulation is who I believe this prayer is specfically for, though it was for Israel also when Christ first came to establish the Kingdom also. (Matt. 4:17)

No matter the time period, I know God wants truth and reality from His people. He wants to hear not repition, but what is in ones heart. Honest, reverent, and plain spoken. Not lofty words and a strange change of voice. And of course we pray in Jesus name, for we the Church are in Jesus. 'In Jesus Name' is not a stamp to send the prayer to Heaven. If I were to forget to say at the end, 'In Jesus Name', would God hear my prayer? Of course He would. Our prayer is in Jesus Name.

Lees

 

[Albion]

There are a number of differences, but the most apparent one is probably that Old Testament prayers were mainly about having God make Earthly changes possible for the persons doing the praying. By contrast, the New Testament prayers are more familial and spiritual.

This is not entirely surprising, considering that these prayers are offered after God had become one of us and lived among Men, thus moving the emphasis further away from simply being about our hopes that by our obedience and submission God would respond by granting temporal benefits.

 

[Lees]

There are a number of differences, but the most apparent one is probably that Old Testament prayers were mainly about having God make Earthly changes possible for the persons doing the praying. By contrast, the New Testament prayers are more familial and spiritual.

This is not entirely surprising, considering that these prayers are offered after God had become one of us and lived among Men, thus moving the emphasis further away from simply being about our hopes that by our obedience and submission God would respond by granting temporal benefits.

How are the Old Testament prayers not 'spiritual'? Show an example in Scripture.

Lees

 

[Albion]

How are the Old Testament prayers not 'spiritual'? Show an example in Scripture.

Lees

"Spiritual" of course can have a wide range of meanings, and I hoped that you would recognize what was being referred to there and in the rest of the post. Also, the comparison of OT with NT verses about prayer is not absolute. It is a development that I was referring to. For instance, here are verses from each testament--

Old Testament:

Psalm 25:

6 Remember your compassionate and faithful deeds, O Lord, for you have always acted in this manner. 7 Do not hold against me the sins of my youth or my rebellious acts! Because you are faithful to me, extend to me your favor, O Lord 8 The Lord is both kind and fair; that is why he teaches sinners the right way to live. 9 May he show the humble what is right! May he teach the humble his way! 10 The Lord always proves faithful and reliable to those who follow the demands of his covenant.

New Testament:

Philippians 4:6-7

6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

 

[prism]

The prayers of the OT were Monotheistic (without a Trinity in mind), this would exclude "The Lord's Prayer". Can of worms anyone?

 

[Lees]

"Spiritual" of course can have a wide range of meanings, and I hoped that you would recognize what was being referred to there and in the rest of the post. Also, the comparison of OT with NT verses about prayer is not absolute. It is a development that I was referring to. For instance, here are verses from each testament--

Old Testament:

Psalm 25:

6 Remember your compassionate and faithful deeds, O Lord, for you have always acted in this manner. 7 Do not hold against me the sins of my youth or my rebellious acts! Because you are faithful to me, extend to me your favor, O Lord 8 The Lord is both kind and fair; that is why he teaches sinners the right way to live. 9 May he show the humble what is right! May he teach the humble his way! 10 The Lord always proves faithful and reliable to those who follow the demands of his covenant.

New Testament:

Philippians 4:6-7

6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

And of course the 'wide range' gives you plenty of room for interpretation. I did recognize what you were referring to which is why I asked why you consider the Old Testament prayers not spiritual.

You were trying to make the distinction between an earthly and spiritual. A physical and spiritual. As though the Old Testament prayers centered mainly on the physical but now the New Testament prayers are more spiritually centered on the better things. Your post #(4).

The 'development' of prayer, as you now want to call it, does not make the Old Testament prayers less spiritual. The inclusion of Christ's name or being 'in Christ', does not make the New Testament prayers more spiritual.

(Philippians 4:6-7) doesn't move prayer away from 'temporal' benefits, as you like to say. It says in "in everything by prayer and supplication...let your requests be made known unto God.' (6)

What you reveal is your attempt to force the platonic method of interpretation upon the Bible. To force a spiritualizing method of interpretation upon Scripture which moves away from the literal to a more 'heavenly' method. A common method used today by many. As though physical or earthly is evil and spritual is good.

Lees

 

[Albion]

And of course the 'wide range' gives you plenty of room for interpretation. I did recognize what you were referring to which is why I asked why you consider the Old Testament prayers not spiritual.

Okay.

You were trying to make the distinction between an earthly and spiritual. A physical and spiritual. As though the Old Testament prayers centered mainly on the physical but now the New Testament prayers are more spiritually centered on the better things.

It's not a hard and fast, "either-or" change, but that is the direction in which this moved.

What you reveal is your attempt to force the platonic method of interpretation upon the Bible.

No, not at all.

But you are free to give your own answer to the question posed by the Original Post, just like everyone else here.

 

[Lees]

Okay.

It's not a hard and fast, "either-or" change, but that is the direction in which this moved.

No, not at all.

But you are free to give your own answer to the question posed by the Original Post, just like everyone else here.

Yes, I am free to give my own answer. Just as you are free to give yours.

Giving my 'free answer' doesn't mean it is to be accepted and not held to account. Just like your 'free answer' doens't mean it is to be accepted and held to account. "Forum"

I am willing to respond to any objections to my answer. But you, as usual, only respond to sentences that you feel you can support. Once that support is in question, you cease to respond.

In other words, if you're unwilling to defend your statements, then your statements are untenable. If they are untenable, why make them? If they are untenable, what value are they?

Just an observation.

Lees

 

[Albion]

Yes, I am free to give my own answer. Just as you are free to give yours.

I gave my answer and then defended it when you asked for an example. Now it's someone else's turn.







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[Lamb]

How about we get back to discussing the topic?

 

[Josiah]

How about we get back to discussing the topic?

What's your view on this?


ONE thing that comes to my mind are all those prayers in the OT about "sock it to my enemies." But of course there are also lots about blessing us all, too.



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[Angel Michael]

How different are the prayers of God's people in the Old Testament to Jesus' prayer, specifically the Lord's Prayer?

We can see in the new testament

Matthew 6:5​

And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

Jesus teaches us not to pray so that others know and see us, but to pray in secret, as a pure bond with God, alone.