How would God respond to Stephen Fry?

Lamb

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Why? Why are we linked to one another in that way? Why can't we all start out a clean slate and be given the very same opportunities that Adam and Eve were given in the beginning? Why do we inherit our parents' DNA? Why do we inherit our ancestors' sins? Why do the actions of some affect others? Why are things like this? Is the current state of affairs an intrinsic trait of reality or did God create things like this? If He was the one Who created things like this, then Fry's point remains.

God didn't create sin. Fry is wrong because he would be blaming God when it's not God's fault.
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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God didn't create sin, but He created a reality in which sin (or its consequences) is genetically transmissible and in which a being's sin affects other beings.

Could He have created a reality in which sin was not transmissible and didn't affect anyone other than the being who sins?
 

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God didn't create sin, but He created a reality in which sin (or its consequences) is genetically transmissible and in which a being's sin affects other beings.

Could He have created a reality in which sin was not transmissible and didn't affect anyone other than the being who sins?

Whether He could or not is a moot point. He allowed bad to happen and now only HE can save us from ourselves. That makes Him loving and merciful.
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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Whether He could or not is a moot point. He allowed bad to happen and now only HE can save us from ourselves. That makes Him loving and merciful.
I don't understand how someone who is able to stop bad from happening, but doesn't, and then requires worship in exchange for salvation from the bad he allowed to happen, can be characterized as loving and merciful for having acted this way.

According to the definition of love, the well-being of the loved one should be sought. By allowing bad to happen, the well-being of the loved one was not sought.

According to the definition of merciful, forgiveness should be offered freely. By punishing Adam and Eve for their disobedience, forgiveness was not offered freely.

Do we have faulty definitions of those words or is there something I'm missing?
 

Messy

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Why do you need those things? I mean, I'm trying to understand the logic. Why would an omnipotent God, Who is able to stop all the demons from having interaction with humans, requires people to beg Him in large numbers and a certain amount of intensity in order to help them.

Why do people need to be fervent and united in order to defeat entities that Jesus supposedly already defeated by dying and resurrecting? Look at the Old Testament great prophets. Moses, Elijah, Elisha, David, they mostly had one or two people by their side, and oftentimes they were alone when God worked through them.
Yeah those were O.T. prophets and Elijah wasn't happy that he had to do it alone. He gave up. There are ppl nowadays who pray for loads of people, but they always have a team. God now wants to work through His whole body on earth. Not just 1 prophet and it's dangerous, cause a lot of people are gonna idolize them plus it's crazy. We all have the Holy Spirit in us now. We don't need to go to one prophet somewhere to get help, cause he's the only one that talks with God.
 

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Why? Why are we linked to one another in that way? Why can't we all start out a clean slate and be given the very same opportunities that Adam and Eve were given in the beginning? Why do we inherit our parents' DNA? Why do we inherit our ancestors' sins? Why do the actions of some affect others? Why are things like this? Is the current state of affairs an intrinsic trait of reality or did God create things like this? If He was the one Who created things like this, then Fry's point remains.
You really think you would have done a better job than them? I'm glad I'm not the first one. Then everyone would blame me. I'm afraid I wouldn't have done a better job than Eve. Plus when you get saved, you become new and you can start over and learn to overcome satan and sin and have victory.
 

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I don't understand how someone who is able to stop bad from happening, but doesn't, and then requires worship in exchange for salvation from the bad he allowed to happen, can be characterized as loving and merciful for having acted this way.

According to the definition of love, the well-being of the loved one should be sought. By allowing bad to happen, the well-being of the loved one was not sought.

According to the definition of merciful, forgiveness should be offered freely. By punishing Adam and Eve for their disobedience, forgiveness was not offered freely.

Do we have faulty definitions of those words or is there something I'm missing?
God can't stop people to have free will to reject Him. He can, but then He would be a dictator, if He would force everyone to serve Him. We may choose if we want to serve Him or satan.
 

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Why? Why are we linked to one another in that way? Why can't we all start out a clean slate and be given the very same opportunities that Adam and Eve were given in the beginning? Why do we inherit our parents' DNA? Why do we inherit our ancestors' sins? Why do the actions of some affect others? Why are things like this? Is the current state of affairs an intrinsic trait of reality or did God create things like this? If He was the one Who created things like this, then Fry's point remains.

But Fry's point won't matter. He can have his point in hell. Good for him.

Lees
 

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I don't understand how someone who is able to stop bad from happening, but doesn't, and then requires worship in exchange for salvation from the bad he allowed to happen, can be characterized as loving and merciful for having acted this way.

According to the definition of love, the well-being of the loved one should be sought. By allowing bad to happen, the well-being of the loved one was not sought.

According to the definition of merciful, forgiveness should be offered freely. By punishing Adam and Eve for their disobedience, forgiveness was not offered freely.

Do we have faulty definitions of those words or is there something I'm missing?

God saves us and nothing is demanded from us in exchange. Our worship is that of Thanksgiving, not a mandate to earn salvation.

Your post is showing me that you don't realize how bad the situation was for Adam and Eve and what the results of their action was. They deserved to die, that's what is just. But God, who is faithful and just had a plan to save them. He is holy and they turned away from holiness to self because they wanted to be their own gods. Our gracious and merciful God has great plans for us, and when judgment day comes, we'll see how wonderful His sacrifice truly is. The things of this world seem so harsh to us right now, but hell is even worse than anything we could live through here on earth.
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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God saves us and nothing is demanded from us in exchange. Our worship is that of Thanksgiving, not a mandate to earn salvation.
What happens to those who refuse to worship Him?

Your post is showing me that you don't realize how bad the situation was for Adam and Eve and what the results of their action was. They deserved to die, that's what is just.
Why? According to what objective criteria did they deserve to die? What reason is it behind the rule that disobedience has death as a consequence? I can't think of a single such reason other than the fact that God made the rules this way. Is this so or not?

Christians say, well, God is the source of life, so if you turn against life, you go towards death. But why? Why is death the opposite of life? Who made it like that? Why isn't the opposite of life a new life, just like two things can exist in competition and both be good. We see this all around us in this world. Water and fire both can be useful and good, but they are opposite to each other. Sleep and wakefulness both have their benefits, but they are opposite to each other.
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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I'm glad I'm not the first one. Then everyone would blame me.
Why would everyone blame you if sin had no consequence upon any other being than yourself?
 

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What happens to those who refuse to worship Him?


Why? According to what objective criteria did they deserve to die? What reason is it behind the rule that disobedience has death as a consequence? I can't think of a single such reason other than the fact that God made the rules this way. Is this so or not?

Christians say, well, God is the source of life, so if you turn against life, you go towards death. But why? Why is death the opposite of life? Who made it like that? Why isn't the opposite of life a new life, just like two things can exist in competition and both be good. We see this all around us in this world. Water and fire both can be useful and good, but they are opposite to each other. Sleep and wakefulness both have their benefits, but they are opposite to each other.

It is God behind the rule of death for disobedience. Your reason plays no role.

Things are as they are because God is. Neither your reason or approval changes it.

You may as well try and reason yourself out of existence.

Lees
 

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What happens to those who refuse to worship Him?


Why? According to what objective criteria did they deserve to die? What reason is it behind the rule that disobedience has death as a consequence? I can't think of a single such reason other than the fact that God made the rules this way. Is this so or not?

Christians say, well, God is the source of life, so if you turn against life, you go towards death. But why? Why is death the opposite of life? Who made it like that? Why isn't the opposite of life a new life, just like two things can exist in competition and both be good. We see this all around us in this world. Water and fire both can be useful and good, but they are opposite to each other. Sleep and wakefulness both have their benefits, but they are opposite to each other.

To those who refuse to worship Him...are they rejecting Him?

Sin is unholy. There is such magnitude in that statement. Sin is NOT good for any of us, and yet here we are because of Adam and Eve. God rescues us from that, but He doesn't promise that our life while alive right now is going to be peachy keen. When we die (of if He returns first), that's when we see the true joy of His death and resurrection for us and that's for all eternity. For those who don't believe, they won't have that joy with God because they reject Him and His sacrifice. They prefer to make themselves their own god like Adam and Eve did. Yet, Adam and Eve trusted in God to redeem them.
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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For those who don't believe, they won't have that joy with God because they reject Him and His sacrifice.
That makes absolutely zero sense to me because I don't find belief to be volitional. It's like saying: "all blind people who refuse to look at this painting I made and appreciate its beauty won't have the joy of experiencing the emotions that art creates in humans. But it's their fault because they refused to look at it and admire its beauty."
 

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That makes absolutely zero sense to me
We know.
because I don't find belief to be volitional.
It doesn't matter if that's how you feel about it..
It's like saying: "all blind people who refuse to look at this painting I made and appreciate its beauty won't have the joy of experiencing the emotions that art creates in humans. But it's their fault because they refused to look at it and admire its beauty."
Well, part of your problem may be that you are thinking of everything in terms of disobedience to God or, if not that, as God and creation being something other than you would have done yourself if you were making the rules.

In reality, in this life we do not KNOW how all the things of the universe, of the spirit world, and so much more are what they are. As scripture says, we see now only as through a glass (mirror) darkly.

In the future, what seems senseless now will make sense, but for the time being we humans are worrying about eternity, etc. in the way that a cocker spaniel wonders why his owner disappears early in the morning and reappears home in the evening.

And as for thinking of our actions as bringing punishment or death because we "crossed" God, the moral law, the Commandments, and Jesus' teachings are primarily about doing good and not doing evil. In other words, it's not a matter merely of offending God for some arbitrary reason or because it angers God so much as these acts are done or not done because they are, in themselves, either right or harmful.
 

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Why would everyone blame you if sin had no consequence upon any other being than yourself?
No I mean if He had created me first instead of Eve and sin would have gone to everyone because of me. I'm afraid I wouldn't have done a better job than her and I don't envy her.
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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In reality, in this life we do not KNOW how all the things of the universe, of the spirit world, and so much more are what they are. As scripture says, we see now only as through a glass (mirror) darkly.

In the future, what seems senseless now will make sense,
Then how could it be fair for us to be judged for actions that we didn't fully understand? We understand that it's irrational to punish toddlers for their mistakes. Why would it be rational to punish beings who have a poor understanding of existence?
It doesn't matter if that's how you feel about it.
It matters to me.
 

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Then how could it be fair for us to be judged for actions that we didn't fully understand?
You got the instructions, didn't you? The "Do's and Don'ts?"

You are referring to them just as the rest of us are.
We understand that it's irrational to punish toddlers for their mistakes. Why would it be rational to punish beings who have a poor understanding of existence?
Oh, I don't know about that. We do, in fact, admonish toddlers when they disobey Mom. Of course, we normally take account of the ability of the toddler to comply, but with adults, we have every reason to believe that they know about murder, stealing, cheating, etc.
 

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Then how could it be fair for us to be judged for actions that we didn't fully understand? We understand that it's irrational to punish toddlers for their mistakes. Why would it be rational to punish beings who have a poor understanding of existence?

It matters to me.
You don't have to understand everything, but you need to taste and see that the Lord is good, because how can you follow someone you don't even trust? It doesn't sound like you ever had a personal relationship with Him if this is how you think about God or did you and then you started to doubt?
 

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God didn't create sin, but He created a reality in which sin (or its consequences) is genetically transmissible and in which a being's sin affects other beings.

Could He have created a reality in which sin was not transmissible and didn't affect anyone other than the being who sins?

The teaching that man inherited sin, or a sin nature is primarily a Saul/Paul teaching. A clear and unambiguous teaching of this missing from the OT and from the Gospels.

As for a reality in which sin doesn't affect others, I'm not sure what you imagine a world like this could be like.
 
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