What do you think about these Martin Luther quotes?

[Albion]

Jesus condemns violence, even violence for self-defense. So instead use Jesus as a model to expose the false Christians the churches are crawling with today.

Are you referring to the same Jesus of Nazareth who whipped the moneychangers in the Temple, drove them out of the place, and trashed their equipment there?

Or the Jesus who urged his Apostles to arm themselves with swords shortly before he was going to be arrested by the Roman guards?

Both are recorded in Scripture and neither of these seems to be in accord with the picture you want to paint of Jesus Christ.

 

[1689Dave]

Are you referring to the same Jesus of Nazareth who whipped the moneychangers in the Temple, drove them out of the place, and trashed their equipment there?

Or the Jesus who urged his Apostles to arm themselves with swords shortly before he was going to be arrested by the Roman guards?

Both are recorded in Scripture and neither of these seems to be in accord with the picture you want to paint of Jesus Christ.

Did you know Jesus was in the Old Covenant, fulfilling prophecy about him? But the Sermon on the Mount defines NT testament ethics. And scripture says if you do not practice it, you do not have God.

 

[Albion]

Did you know Jesus was in the Old Covenant, fulfilling prophecy about him? But the Sermon on the Mount defines NT testament ethics. And scripture says if you do not practice it, you do not have God.

I'm uneasy about you classifying Jesus as one who does "not have God."

Also, the Sermon on the Mount certainly does not define NT Testament ethics. It is part of Jesus' message, but not the whole of it.

 

[1689Dave]

I'm uneasy about you classifying Jesus as one who does "not have God."

Also, the Sermon on the Mount certainly does not define NT Testament ethics. It is part of Jesus' message, but not the whole of it.

Paul spends lots of time teaching the Sermon. But if you do not practice it, you do not have God according to Matthew and John. Also, I made a successful career in living it!

 

[Jason76]

Luther is "hating his enemies" which is forbidden in the sermon. Best idea is to leave certain people alone, unless something warrants them going to jail, and then you still pray for them.

 

[1689Dave]

Luther is "hating his enemies" which is forbidden in the sermon. Best idea is to leave certain people alone, unless something warrants them going to jail, and then you still pray for them.

I'm not familiar with the Luther quotes. But the idea is to treat lovingly those you hate.

 

[Jason76]

I'm not familiar with the Luther quotes. But the idea is to treat lovingly those you hate.

Did Luther do that?

 

[1689Dave]

Did Luther do that?

The Catholics were the main killers of Christians and others. But the Anabaptists had many of theirs killed by Protestants too. I think Luther recommended it.

 

[Stravinsk]

I nearly finished "The Jews and their Lies" by Luther today. It was a somewhat abridged version, leaving out some lengthy sermonizing and commentary on Scripture, but otherwise contains the bulk of his content. Published 1948.

If you live in America, or generally in the west, you aren't given a good deal of history on the Jews (except for to feel sorry for them, especially in relation to the supposed 6 million that died during the Holocaust). The western media and schooling doesn't deal in great depth with the 10's of millions of Russian Christians that died when Bolshevikism took hold, a primarily Jewish movement. They might mention that the Jews were abused throughout history in Europe/Russia, but the reason for that is because of general "hate" and "anti-semitism" and racism and what not - if you believe that. I don't. There are reasons for the distrust and expulsion of Jews over the centuries that are more than "they aren't Christians like us".

Maybe in the USA or in Europe you won't find too many Jews who speak openly about what (many) of them believe. You also don't find too many Christians who have read any of the Talmud, Zohar or have done any research on the Kabbalah. Christians tend to think of Jews as Jews want them to think - the persecuted chosen people. In light of this, Luther's work stands in stark contrast.

I think these Jews in Israel feel perfectly comfortable expressing their real views:

Jew admit Non-jews are cattle

 

[Stravinsk]

One critical thing to understand about the tribe of Judah (from which the name "Jew" and "Judaism" come from), is that when they rebelled against God and were captured by the Babylonians, they had to live an altered life under Babylonian rule. What exactly did they learn from the Babylonians, and did they take from that culture the occult mysteries that they practice called "Jewish mysticism", contained in some of their books that deal with conjuring spirits, casting spells, blood rituals and the like? Their Talmud was largely unknown to Westerners because it was kept in Hebrew, which most Westerners don't know how to read or speak. When Translating the Bible into German, Luther had to learn Hebrew and he became familiar with the Talmud.

Freemasonry shares some commonality with Jewish Mysticism. Most people know it has rites and rituals and oaths taken under threat of death. What most people don't know is that in some of higher level books is contained spells to conjure demons. Many of them invoke the Tetragrammaton and use Babylonian Hebrew letters as part of the spells and rituals. Historically, it is Jews who dabbled in and practiced occult magick.

 

[Stravinsk]

"In the Zohar it is thought that the spirits of evil men become mazzikim after their death. However, there are also good-natured devils who are prepared to help and do favors to men. This is supposed to be particularly true of those demons ruled by Ashmedai (Asmodeus) who accept the Torah and are con- sidered "Jewish demons.""

Kabbalah : Scholem, Gershom Gerhard, 1897-1982 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Includes bibliographical references and index

archive.org

Kabbalah​

by Scholem, Gershom Gerhard, 1897-1982

 

[Lamb]

@Stravinsk please know that you're pushing a line here and if it's hate related, it will be removed.

 

[Albion]

Freemasonry shares some commonality with Jewish Mysticism. Most people know it has rites and rituals and oaths taken under threat of death. What most people don't know is that in some of higher level books is contained spells to conjure demons.

...as all sorts of people who don't actually know much of anything about Freemasonry (and absolutely nothing first-hand) like to say...as a result of having read something from a non-Masonic source.

 

[Stravinsk]

@Stravinsk please know that you're pushing a line here and if it's hate related, it will be removed.

I'm not pushing anything. The subject of Jewish Mysticism, the occult, Freemasonry, world war 2, the holocaust, the Bolshevik revolution are all topics I have either been studying through literature or film for over a year. Naturally, I've come to some conclusions. This isn't "a line" that is encompassed in some stereotype Hollywood sells to the world.

 

[Stravinsk]

...as all sorts of people who don't actually know much of anything about Freemasonry (and absolutely nothing first-hand) like to say...as a result of having read something from a non-Masonic source.

I'm sorry, the sources I read are from Albert Pike, and Manly P Hall, among others, some freemasons, some not. I'm a voracious reader. But you are correct on one point, I don't have "first hand" knowledge in the sense of being initiated into that cult, because I'll never be.

I know our beloved Admin won't take more than 2 minutes on a video, so I don't suppose she's a huge fan of study of this kind of stuff. That's fine. That's also a reason I quoted:

Gershom Scholem - Wikipedia

above in post #51. The dude is a scholar in the subject (of Jewish Mysticism), and otherwise the quote (in blue in that post) might seem to the otherwise well-washed western mind as "anti-semetic" or some other garbage.

 

[Albion]

I'm sorry, the sources I read are from Albert Pike, and Manly P Hall, among others,

Ah, so it's merely a matter of you misunderstanding what they wrote...or else you took the interpretations of various anti-Masons at face value. Yes, that happens.

But you are correct on one point, I don't have "first hand" knowledge in the sense of being initiated into that cult, because I'll never be.

...,meaning that your "knowledge" of Masonry lacks much, and so the appropriate response would be to take in questionable information but not then pass it along as though you know it to be correct.

 

[Messy]

My granddad was a rosecrucian for a while and the dad from a friend was too and she was Jewish and she let me read occult stuff. I visited her while her dad had a round table group downstairs. That's why I got saved. I reckoned if spirits exist anyway, then why not a head spirit, so I decided to check if God existed. Meanwhile my brother was Zen meditating and he saw Jesus while doing it. He went to look for a church and took me there. My mom was afraid we were in a cult, so she came to check it and also stayed.
Corrie ten Boom said: the Lord strikes a straight blow with a crooked stick.

 

[Messy]

I nearly finished "The Jews and their Lies" by Luther today. It was a somewhat abridged version, leaving out some lengthy sermonizing and commentary on Scripture, but otherwise contains the bulk of his content. Published 1948.

If you live in America, or generally in the west, you aren't given a good deal of history on the Jews (except for to feel sorry for them, especially in relation to the supposed 6 million that died during the Holocaust). The western media and schooling doesn't deal in great depth with the 10's of millions of Russian Christians that died when Bolshevikism took hold, a primarily Jewish movement. They might mention that the Jews were abused throughout history in Europe/Russia, but the reason for that is because of general "hate" and "anti-semitism" and racism and what not - if you believe that. I don't. There are reasons for the distrust and expulsion of Jews over the centuries that are more than "they aren't Christians like us".

Maybe in the USA or in Europe you won't find too many Jews who speak openly about what (many) of them believe. You also don't find too many Christians who have read any of the Talmud, Zohar or have done any research on the Kabbalah. Christians tend to think of Jews as Jews want them to think - the persecuted chosen people. In light of this, Luther's work stands in stark contrast.

I think these Jews in Israel feel perfectly comfortable expressing their real views:

Jew admit Non-jews are cattle

The Talmud is evil. That's what the pharisees wrote. I know about occult Jewish stuff. Most of them don't know Jesus. There will be a one world govt with maybe a Jewish antichrist. Jesus already said that they would listen to someone who would come in his own name and evangelicals give money to build the temple and the antichrist will sit in it and then they see that they were wrong and all Israel will be saved and Jesus comes back.
Look at OneforIsrael. Some of those leaders threaten those christian Jews, but they just forgive them and pray for them.

 

[Messy]

Ah, so it's merely a matter of you misunderstanding what they wrote...or else you took the interpretations of various anti-Masons at face value. Yes, that happens.


...,meaning that your "knowledge" of Masonry lacks much, and so the appropriate response would be to take in questionable information but not then pass it along as though you know it to be correct.

I think you're too naive. The highest ones, they're evil. Our former queen goes to these Bilderberg meetings that her husband started, who was a Nazi.

A guy was in a meeting with kings and such and it's on a video from 2010, where he says the meeting was in 2005 and they planned a war with a bomb and corona and they were behind on schedule. They said: China will catch a cold and they were laughing. China was becoming too powerful. If someone said that in 2020, you could say they made that up, but the video is from 2010.

 

[Stravinsk]

The Talmud is evil. That's what the pharisees wrote. I know about occult Jewish stuff. Most of them don't know Jesus. There will be a one world govt with maybe a Jewish antichrist. Jesus already said that they would listen to someone who would come in his own name and evangelicals give money to build the temple and the antichrist will sit in it and then they see that they were wrong and all Israel will be saved and Jesus comes back.
Look at OneforIsrael. Some of those leaders threaten those christian Jews, but they just forgive them and pray for them.

You know, as I was pondering this thread and what you said here it struck me with a bit of awe the surrounding facts of Christ. By birth and race, He's a Jew. No one can say he's "anti-Semetic" or use some other slur against him based on race. So He comes to the one surviving tribe of Israel (that is, by name) and a substantial portion of His message is directed against...the Pharisees and Herodian's teaching.

Some of the strongest wording He used against them, if you or I used, we would be labeled "haters", "anti-semites", "racist" etc.

The irony of this thread to. I mean, Luther wrote his "The Jews and their lies" for the public to read. The German public, anyway. But the practice of hiding teachings from the general public is a very Pharisee-Jew one. The Talmud was hidden from the public for hundreds of years simply by keeping it in Hebrew. They really didn't want non-Jews knowing much about it.