Medical marijuana

[Lanman87]

Should Christians support or be against allowing Medical Marijuana in our communities?

 

[tango]

Why would we oppose a medical treatment if it works?

For that matter, if God gave us all the plants why would we oppose the legality of using it for other reasons, including recreational? Making it legal doesn't obligate anyone to use it and if it gives someone a benefit, real or imagined, what difference does it make to us?

 

[Albion]

Well, because the drug has harmful effects, as well as calming ones.

I'm not saying that medical marijuana should be banned for that reason, and that's because a doctor presumably will not prescribe it for people who don't need it, but if the question is simply an 'up or down' one, there is a 'down' side.

 

[Stravinsk]

Well, because the drug has harmful effects, as well as calming ones.

I'm not saying that medical marijuana should be banned for that reason, and that's because a doctor presumably will not prescribe it for people who don't need it, but if the question is simply an 'up or down' one, there is a 'down' side.

I always find it amusing to watch the 80's Christian defend (or partially defend) it's (mostly) criminal status worldwide based on it's so called "harmful effects" while completely ignoring the "approved" pharmaceutical drugs widespread deaths and side-effects. Not to mention alcohol and it's harmful effects, destruction of humans and families. This of course is A-ok...because Jesus made water into wine, and few "believers" actually look into what makes a wine-skin burst.

The world is full of dumb. What can I say.

 

[tango]

Well, because the drug has harmful effects, as well as calming ones.

I'm not saying that medical marijuana should be banned for that reason, and that's because a doctor presumably will not prescribe it for people who don't need it, but if the question is simply an 'up or down' one, there is a 'down' side.

There are some pretty nasty side effects of many other drugs that are available on prescription, as well as those available without prescription.

Of particular note are the black-box warnings on antidepressants, that can cause "suicidal and homicidal ideations". Other psychotropic drugs can cause all sorts of fun stuff that people might not expect.

And then there's the downside of alcohol - liver disease, families torn apart by alcoholism and the like.

Even the pharmaceuticals we can buy over the counter and routinely keep in the closet have dangers. It's not difficult to do yourself a lot of damage with something as everyday as acetaminophen.

What about the harm caused by the stuff most people have in their homes and consume daily? I'm talking about sugar, that seemingly innocent sweetener that it's so hard to escape but that does nasty things to diabetics.

At some point we have to allow adults to make an informed choice whether the upsides of something outweigh the downsides.

 

[Albion]

I always find it amusing to watch the 80's Christian defend (or partially defend) it's (mostly) criminal status worldwide based on it's so called "harmful effects" while completely ignoring the "approved" pharmaceutical drugs widespread deaths and side-effects.

Had you initially intended to respond to something I wrote???

Not to mention alcohol and it's [sic] harmful effects, destruction of humans and families.

and you think you have to use a false dichotomy in order to do so??

This of course is A-ok...because Jesus made water into wine, and few "believers" actually look into what makes a wine-skin burst.

The world is full of dumb. What can I say.

NOW we have something we can agree on. "The world is full of dumb."

 

[Albion]

There are some pretty nasty side effects of many other drugs that are available on prescription, as well as those available without prescription.

Sure, but just as Stravinsk's reply missed the point, two wrongs don't make a right; and, further, the question here asked if we should support or oppose legalized medical MJ.

My reply did not answer the question with an absolute "yes" or "no," but pointed out that the too-easy but popular reply ("Yes, of course, doing that makes perfect sense, etc.") is shortsighted.

There is a "down" side (or several of them) to legalizing MJ, and any serious examination of the matter needs to address that.

 

[Albion]

At some point we have to allow adults to make an informed choice whether the upsides of something outweigh the downsides.

Perhaps, but I didn't notice anything in the earlier replies that identified any of them in this case. Your first answer was to the effect that if it exists it must be good 'cause God didn't create junk. And your second thought was to the effect that prohibition isn't good so long as people assume the drug to be harmless (which users normally do) even though it has both beneficial and harmful effects.

 

[Messy]

Perhaps, but I didn't notice anything in the earlier replies that identified any of them in this case. Your first answer was to the effect that if it exists it must be good 'cause God didn't create junk. And your second thought was to the effect that prohibition isn't good so long as people assume the drug to be harmless (which users normally do) even though it has both beneficial and harmful effects.

That reminds me of my time on christian forums. A guy there sent me a pm if I could help him get some meds that were only legal in Holland for his drug addicted daughter. I looked it up. It was a root from a plant, used in some African religion and ppl got rid of any drug addiction when they took it and some met god with a little g. My goodness, such satanic stuff. Nope. Not gonna help you. A christian psychiater said that medical drugs was awesome. They let him preach in the Toronto blessing church and sold his books there. I almost killed myself. Marriage ruined. Church ruined. So I put on his internet page thanks m8 for your lousy advice. I was almost dead. He only had slimy testimonies on it. Oh thank you psychiater, how awesome! Lol he removed my comment.

 

[tango]

Perhaps, but I didn't notice anything in the earlier replies that identified any of them in this case. Your first answer was to the effect that if it exists it must be good 'cause God didn't create junk. And your second thought was to the effect that prohibition isn't good so long as people assume the drug to be harmless (which users normally do) even though it has both beneficial and harmful effects.

I don't recall saying either of those things.

If it exists it isn't necessarily good for us. I wouldn't be first in line to eat belladonna, to give just one example, and something doesn't have to be harmless to be legal. From my first answer I mentioned "if it gives someone a benefit" - if that benefit comes with some associated cost that doesn't take away the benefit, and each person can decide for themselves whether the benefit is worth the cost, no?

As far as prohibition is concerned I don't see why we should prohibit something that grows naturally that people can make an informed choice whether to consume or not. All we need is prohibitions on things that harm others in ways they can't easily avoid. You're allowed to drink yourself into a stupor if you want to but you're not allowed to drink and drive. It makes little sense that you're allowed to get so drunk you can't even stand up but you're not allowed to get stoned.

 

[Albion]

If it exists it isn't necessarily good for us.

That's what I'd think.

From my first answer I mentioned "if it gives someone a benefit" - if that benefit comes with some associated cost that doesn't take away the benefit, and each person can decide for themselves whether the benefit is worth the cost, no?

Here's what you wrote and to which I was referring--

For that matter, if God gave us all the plants why would we oppose the legality of using it for other reasons, including recreational?

 

[tango]

Here's what you wrote and to which I was referring--

And I'd stand by that. Why should we outlaw a plant? It may have benefits, drawbacks or both. Most things have both. If we can get some benefit from it, whether that's a medical benefit or a recreational enjoyment, and we are willing to accept any drawbacks as the price to gain the benefit, why should the law have anything to do with it at all?

It's easy to point at things we might not personally like, or might not personally want to use, and find reasons why they shouldn't be used. I personally have no interest in using all sorts of things (including marijuana) but that doesn't mean I get to say nobody else should use them either.

Many natural things can harm us if taken in large enough quantities. It's possible to die from drinking too much water. But with most things we let people make their own decisions. Why does the law need to get involved where marijuana is concerned?

 

[Messy]

And I'd stand by that. Why should we outlaw a plant? It may have benefits, drawbacks or both. Most things have both. If we can get some benefit from it, whether that's a medical benefit or a recreational enjoyment, and we are willing to accept any drawbacks as the price to gain the benefit, why should the law have anything to do with it at all?

It's easy to point at things we might not personally like, or might not personally want to use, and find reasons why they shouldn't be used. I personally have no interest in using all sorts of things (including marijuana) but that doesn't mean I get to say nobody else should use them either.

Many natural things can harm us if taken in large enough quantities. It's possible to die from drinking too much water. But with most things we let people make their own decisions. Why does the law need to get involved where marijuana is concerned?

To protect people. But nowadays they protect noone anymore, cause noone is christian and God lets you eat forbidden fruit if you want to, free choice.

 

[tango]

To protect people. But nowadays they protect noone anymore, cause noone is christian and God lets you eat forbidden fruit if you want to, free choice.

But it's not about protecting people and, even if it were, why does the law need to protect people from their own decisions? At what point do we accept that adults are allowed to make decisions even if other people think they are bad decisions?

If it was about protecting people we'd have all sorts of other laws. As it stands you can drink enough whisky to literally kill yourself but you're not allowed to smoke a spliff. But it's about protecting us. You can take enough acetaminophen to cause your internal organs to fail leading to a painful death in a few days, but you're not allowed a bit of weed in a brownie.

It's really nothing to do with being Christian or otherwise. The secular law shouldn't be trying to force people to behave in a way that appeases one particular faith. If you believe your faith (whatever that may be) is incompatible with using a particular product you are free to not use it. We can find verses in the Bible against drunkenness but the law doesn't require people of other faiths to adhere to our rules.

 

[Albion]

And I'd stand by that. Why should we outlaw a plant? It may have benefits, drawbacks or both. Most things have both. If we can get some benefit from it, whether that's a medical benefit or a recreational enjoyment, and we are willing to accept any drawbacks as the price to gain the benefit, why should the law have anything to do with it at all?

Well, I expect that it's a question whether the benefit outweighs the drawbacks. I'm not sure that it does--which is just about what I said in the beginning in response to the idea that of course smoking this weed is a good idea.

It's easy to point at things we might not personally like, or might not personally want to use, and find reasons why they shouldn't be used.

Like increased deaths and/or loss of memory. How long do I have to decide whether or not those are "benefits?"

But with most things we let people make their own decisions.

I don't think anyone is disputing that.

 

[Messy]

But it's not about protecting people and, even if it were, why does the law need to protect people from their own decisions? At what point do we accept that adults are allowed to make decisions even if other people think they are bad decisions?

If it was about protecting people we'd have all sorts of other laws. As it stands you can drink enough whisky to literally kill yourself but you're not allowed to smoke a spliff. But it's about protecting us. You can take enough acetaminophen to cause your internal organs to fail leading to a painful death in a few days, but you're not allowed a bit of weed in a brownie.

It's really nothing to do with being Christian or otherwise. The secular law shouldn't be trying to force people to behave in a way that appeases one particular faith. If you believe your faith (whatever that may be) is incompatible with using a particular product you are free to not use it. We can find verses in the Bible against drunkenness but the law doesn't require people of other faiths to adhere to our rules.

Yeah I don't know. I get the idea that a christian or muslim govt is a bunch of parents who want to protect their kids and then the not believing adults are like leave me alone, democracy, I want to do what I want. In Holland you can get it in any coffee shop. It would have been nice if a christian govt had protected me. It has to do with christianity. You can use it here because non christian parties said it was fine. I wish they banned medical drugs too to protect people, but that may get dangerous, cause yes it keeps some calm and there is no alternative for a lot of people. Lot of churches rather send ppl to a psychiater than that they do some effort to pray for you. My ex took our son to a psychologist who wanted to put him on drugs. I said: Do you want to kill him too? Then he kicked me out of his house lol. Come on. He was a preacher who knew how to pray. So I said to son: tell your dad you're healed. But then I lie. No. That's what the Bible says. He who the Son sets free is free indeed. So he did and he didnt believe him but within a week it was gone and they didnt put him on poison.

 

[Stravinsk]

Should Christians support or be against allowing Medical Marijuana in our communities?

I think good Christians should be against MM because it makes the pharmaceuticals no money unless they have exclusive rights to sell it either altered or in pill form. Why should you support big pharmaceuticals? Well because the Government says so and MJ is baaaaaaaddddd. Christians should always obey their government because according to the bible you must "honor the King" and understand God put the government in place. Every government. Even ones that mass murder their citizens. God is behind it all. Don't forget that. Romans 13 and all.

Where does one get the idea that Cannabis is "bad"? The government. Government sponsored propaganda. Why? Because the government is funded in part by interests to which Cannabis is a threat. Pharmaceuticals is one of them. But just one.

You see, that cotton shirt or pants or underwear you wear. It wears out. Eventually you need to buy more. That means taxes. You pay them, the company that makes the clothing pays them, and all their employees. Taxes go to pay the debt the government got itself into borrowing from the big bankers. So really, they call the shots. Hemp clothing is much more durable and lasts a lot longer. So, less taxes. This is bad because slavery is good.

Just another example of many.

But I digress, you only said medical MJ. Absolutely oppose, sir! Why should the elderly and infirm get a treatment that they could grow themselves (if that ever be allowed where you are), nearly free of charge, when they should rather suffer physically and financially from toxic pharma drugs with long lists of side effects? Which makes the man more money? That's your answer. Serve the man. Slaves have no right to speak up or out.

But but...some people get high!!! Yeah, like people getting high smoking cigarettes (a stimulant), drinking coffee (a stimulant), drinking alcohol (a depressant) and taking all kinds of other drugs or herbs to change their mental state, some dangerous, some safe. A Christian must be against the Devil's lettuce - ie: MJ. It's an absolute moral duty found in the Bibl...oh, but wait, it's not. Surprisingly, the bible does mention it though. "Calumus" is a mis-translation of "Cannabus" which was actually part of the Holy Anointing Oil. Shhhh....don't tell Christians...could embarrass them...

Oh but wait! Cannabis can actually be taken for all it's good effects without being mood altering at all. Just don't heat it. Eat the seeds, leaves etc. Juice them and don't cook them. Put them in salads. All the benefits none of those evil lettuce highs. Sort of boring though, tbh.

 

[Messy]

I think good Christians should be against MM because it makes the pharmaceuticals no money unless they have exclusive rights to sell it either altered or in pill form. Why should you support big pharmaceuticals? Well because the Government says so and MJ is baaaaaaaddddd. Christians should always obey their government because according to the bible you must "honor the King" and understand God put the government in place. Every government. Even ones that mass murder their citizens. God is behind it all. Don't forget that. Romans 13 and all.

Where does one get the idea that Cannabis is "bad"? The government. Government sponsored propaganda. Why? Because the government is funded in part by interests to which Cannabis is a threat. Pharmaceuticals is one of them. But just one.

You see, that cotton shirt or pants or underwear you wear. It wears out. Eventually you need to buy more. That means taxes. You pay them, the company that makes the clothing pays them, and all their employees. Taxes go to pay the debt the government got itself into borrowing from the big bankers. So really, they call the shots. Hemp clothing is much more durable and lasts a lot longer. So, less taxes. This is bad because slavery is good.

Just another example of many.

But I digress, you only said medical MJ. Absolutely oppose, sir! Why should the elderly and infirm get a treatment that they could grow themselves (if that ever be allowed where you are), nearly free of charge, when they should rather suffer physically and financially from toxic pharma drugs with long lists of side effects? Which makes the man more money? That's your answer. Serve the man. Slaves have no right to speak up or out.

But but...some people get high!!! Yeah, like people getting high smoking cigarettes (a stimulant), drinking coffee (a stimulant), drinking alcohol (a depressant) and taking all kinds of other drugs or herbs to change their mental state, some dangerous, some safe. A Christian must be against the Devil's lettuce - ie: MJ. It's an absolute moral duty found in the Bibl...oh, but wait, it's not. Surprisingly, the bible does mention it though. "Calumus" is a mis-translation of "Cannabus" which was actually part of the Holy Anointing Oil. Shhhh....don't tell Christians...could embarrass them...

Oh but wait! Cannabis can actually be taken for all it's good effects without being mood altering at all. Just don't heat it. Eat the seeds, leaves etc. Juice them and don't cook them. Put them in salads. All the benefits none of those evil lettuce highs. Sort of boring though, tbh.

Psychiatric meds can be far worse than cannabis. One person only gets high. The other gets into trouble. I saw spells when I took one joint and 'god' said I should divorce my ex and run off with an atheist fellow patient when I smoked one. Still it didn't make me suicidal and prozac did, so that was way more evil. I got so crazy from the prozac and other stuff they gave me and they locked me up in a mental hospital with a cocaine and a heroine and a cannabis addict. The one whose brain was ruined by cocaine, so he got into a coma, said that I should take a cigar to become calm, so I did and I fainted, fell on the floor from a cigar. Also demonic if you ask me, but in the past the most fabulous christian men smoked cigars.
I want nothing to do with all that stuff. I never wanted, but the church kept pushing me. Yeah those meds are from God, just bless them. Blegh. They're so dumb. Your brain gets altered. You can get psychoses from prozac and not be able to make moral decisions, at least in my case. Some ppl get meds to stop smoking, champix. No way I'd take that. My brother tried that. Drove him crazy. They know nothing. They don't believe in the spiritual and that demons exist. Those psychiaters think it all has to do with your brain and a pill will solve it.

 

[Messy]

There was a guy on christian forums who said he wanted to kill himself and it turned out he just got other meds and there you were not allowed to say that was bad, but I did anyway and told him to throw it away and watch a deliverance video instead. He did and thanked me and then my message was removed and I got a warning. I just had to warn that guy, cause I had the exact same thing happen to me, but the psychiater didnt believe me and doubled the dose.

 

[Stravinsk]

Psychiatric meds can be far worse than cannabis. One person only gets high. The other gets into trouble. I saw spells when I took one joint and 'god' said I should divorce my ex and run off with an atheist fellow patient when I smoked one. Still it didn't make me suicidal and prozac did, so that was way more evil. I got so crazy from the prozac and other stuff they gave me and they locked me up in a mental hospital with a cocaine and a heroine and a cannabis addict. The one whose brain was ruined by cocaine, so he got into a coma, said that I should take a cigar to become calm, so I did and I fainted, fell on the floor from a cigar. Also demonic if you ask me, but in the past the most fabulous christian men smoked cigars.
I want nothing to do with all that stuff. I never wanted, but the church kept pushing me. Yeah those meds are from God, just bless them. Blegh. They're so dumb. Your brain gets altered. You can get psychoses from prozac and not be able to make moral decisions, at least in my case. Some ppl get meds to stop smoking, champix. No way I'd take that. My brother tried that. Drove him crazy. They know nothing. They don't believe in the spiritual and that demons exist. Those psychiaters think it all has to do with your brain and a pill will solve it.

There was a guy on christian forums who said he wanted to kill himself and it turned out he just got other meds and there you were not allowed to say that was bad, but I did anyway and told him to throw it away and watch a deliverance video instead. He did and thanked me and then my message was removed and I got a warning. I just had to warn that guy, cause I had the exact same thing happen to me, but the psychiater didnt believe me and doubled the dose.

Sorry to hear you went through that. You probably realize that a good deal of my post is sarcastic. There's a reason for this.