Pet peeve about driving

[Messy]

I live in the country, there is no room on the side of the roads, because of the hills, to make a bike lane. And no money. I think cyclists should be required to stay off of county and state roads.

I wouldn't dare bike in America. The infrastructure is made for cars.

 

[tango]

I live in the country, there is no room on the side of the roads, because of the hills, to make a bike lane. And no money. I think cyclists should be required to stay off of county and state roads.

Should things like Amish buggies be required to stay off the roads as well? What about pedestrians?

 

[Albion]

Amish buggies are easily seen, are about the size of a small car, and they are required to have reflectorized signs as a warning. All of that, unlike bikes. That's the biggest issue.

 

[Messy]

Lol I thought Amish walking with their kid in a buggy like this:

Oh this is cool!

 

[tango]

Amish buggies are easily seen, are about the size of a small car, and they are required to have reflectorized signs as a warning. All of that, unlike bikes. That's the biggest issue.

Have you ever encountered a white-top buggy in the evening mist, when all it has for illumination is a couple of kerosene lamps?

Being the size of a small car makes them harder to pass than a bicycle because they take up most of the lane, whereas on a road with moderately wide lanes you can pass a bicycle even in the face of oncoming traffic.

In many places bicycles are required to have lights and/or reflectors in the dark. There are cyclists who have no lights and no reflectors in the dark but that's an irresponsible cyclist. It would make more sense to create and/or enforce rules like that than to expect cyclists to simply stay off the roads.

Where I used to live I cycled almost everywhere. I had lights and reflective clothing that went far beyond legal minimums, simply because getting to my destination alive was a primary goal and I couldn't expect drivers to avoid me if they couldn't see me.

 

[Albion]

Have you ever encountered a white-top buggy in the evening mist, when all it has for illumination is a couple of kerosene lamps?

So, you mean a buggy that doesn't have the required reflective sign, and in conditions that would make encountering even a car be a risky thing? And kerosene lamps only? No, and I have seen and passed quite a few Amish buggies.

I suppose that it would be possible to speculate about all sorts of different scenarios that are rarely encountered.

Being the size of a small car makes them harder to pass than a bicycle because they take up most of the lane,

They do, however, use the shoulder or part of it whenever possible, which I've never seen a slow-moving automobile do for the sake of helping the drivers of other cars. And, by the way, does your comment suppose that we should pass other vehicles WITHOUT moving completely into the other lane??

whereas on a road with moderately wide lanes you can pass a bicycle even in the face of oncoming traffic.

That would be illegal in most states (and impossible on most roads).

In many places bicycles are required to have lights and/or reflectors in the dark.

So are buggies, but they also are required to have extra warning devices installed.

Where I used to live I cycled almost everywhere. I had lights and reflective clothing that went far beyond legal minimums, simply because getting to my destination alive was a primary goal and I couldn't expect drivers to avoid me if they couldn't see me.

Most of the serious cyclists that I've encountered do take care to be seen--usually by wearing reflective clothing and/or having blinking lights operating. I appreciate and respect that when I encounter it but, if it's during daylight hours (which is usually the case), they are still less easily noticed than Amish buggies.

 

[Albion]

Lol I thought Amish walking with their kid in a buggy like this:
View attachment 2014
Oh this is cool!

View attachment 2015

I don't know if I've ever encountered an Amish buggy on a state or county road that's like the one shown.

Almost always they're of the style shown in the drawing on the yellow sign shown in the picture. I say "almost" because some are even larger than that (and of course, nearly totally black in color).

 

[tango]

So, you mean a buggy that doesn't have the required reflective sign, and in conditions that would make encountering even a car be a risky thing? And kerosene lamps only? No, and I have seen and passed quite a few Amish buggies.

I'm not sure if they all have the reflective sign. Laws vary from location to location. The faintly glimmering kerosene lamps don't make them very visible at all.

I suppose that it would be possible to speculate about all sorts of different scenarios that are rarely encountered.

I'm not sure how widespread the white-topped buggies are, but it would depend where you live. I've encountered several of them. Some white-toppers have LED lights and are easy to see at a distance. Some of them still use kerosene lamps. I'm surprised it's legal but you get them on roads with a 55mph speed limit.

They do, however, use the shoulder or part of it whenever possible, which I've never seen a slow-moving automobile do for the sake of helping the drivers of other cars. And, by the way, does your comment suppose that we should pass other vehicles WITHOUT moving completely into the other lane??

That varies from area to area. Sometimes they pull over to let traffic pass. Sometimes just for extra excitement a buggy will pull to the side but then suddenly swing back into traffic without any warning at all.

Depending on what the vehicle is and what road and traffic conditions are, I've never had a problem with things passing me without pulling entirely to the other lane. I don't cycle much these days but do walk and run a load, and where I live most roads don't have anywhere for a pedestrian to be other than at the edge of the road. If there's traffic coming both ways and nowhere I can go to get out of the way, somehow the cars have to get past.

That would be illegal in most states (and impossible on most roads).

Hence my comment about reasonably wide lanes, which would make it possible. Legal or otherwise, when I cycled everywhere I expected cars to pass sooner or later and was more concerned about them passing safely than adhering to some largely arbitrary number laid down in law. I'd rather someone slowed down to pass and gave me 2 feet of space, then flew past with a 40-50mph speed difference but sticking precisely to a 3-foot passing distance.

So are buggies, but they also are required to have extra warning devices installed.

Except the faintly glimmering kerosene lamps are legal, at least in some areas.

Most of the serious cyclists that I've encountered do take care to be seen--usually by wearing reflective clothing and/or having blinking lights operating. I appreciate and respect that when I encounter it but, if it's during daylight hours (which is usually the case), they are still less easily noticed than Amish buggies.

It's usually not hard to spot the more serious cyclists. They take care to be visible with lights and/or reflective clothing as appropriate, ride in a visible position and ride in a predictable manner. Few things focus the mind on staying visible quite like knowing you're the squishy bag of bones that isn't going to fare well if you hit, or are hit by, anything else on the road.

Maybe it's because of thousands of miles of cycling myself that I don't have a problem spotting them.

 

[tango]

I don't know if I've ever encountered an Amish buggy on a state or county road that's like the one shown.

Almost always they're of the style shown in the drawing on the yellow sign shown in the picture. I say "almost" because some are even larger than that (and of course, nearly totally black in color).

These are the most fun to try and spot at night. Those blue lamps hanging on the sides are powered by kerosene, and have a faint flame flickering inside them. That's all the lighting they have. The white of the buggy blends remarkably well against even a very light mist. At least these ones have reflective triangles on the back, which gives you a sporting chance of seeing them.

The ones with a black top are harder to see in the dark but they have flashing lights (like the four-way hazard lights you'd use when your car is stopped) that can be seen from a fair distance, and often have a bright light at the front so they can see where they are going.

The easiest ones to spot are the yellow toppers. The top part of the buggy is bright yellow and they have flashing lights.

 

[tango]

I don't know if I've ever encountered an Amish buggy on a state or county road that's like the one shown.

You've never seen a convertible buggy? That's a surprise.

Almost always they're of the style shown in the drawing on the yellow sign shown in the picture. I say "almost" because some are even larger than that (and of course, nearly totally black in color).

Some of them are smaller - they only have one axle and a single row of seats, with no top on them at all. They can move pretty fast, relatively speaking. I once saw one overtaking a regular buggy up a hill. That's not something you see every day...

Sometimes you see really weird contraptions, like a buggy with another buggy linked to the back, or a buggy with canoes on it.

When the Amish move their benches around for church they have a hefty buggy to haul them all. They use two horses to pull an oversize buggy.

 

[Albion]

You've never seen a convertible buggy? That's a surprise.

I've seen at least one, but I don't recall seeing any on a highway as was pictured.

If so, and I have forgotten, it was one among hundreds of the bigger, enclosed variety.

Sometimes you see really weird contraptions, like a buggy with another buggy linked to the back, or a buggy with canoes on it.

Haven't seen that.

When the Amish move their benches around for church they have a hefty buggy to haul them all. They use two horses to pull an oversize buggy.

 

[tango]

I've seen at least one, but I don't recall seeing any on a highway as was pictured.

Most expressways I've seen where you might find Amish have signs restricting usage to motor vehicles only. Another weird contraption I've seen, although thankfully not on faster roads, is a buggy much smaller than most, single-axle, so low to the ground that it has two of the big red flags for visibility that you see things like recumbent tricycles using, pulled by a small horse, and carrying one or two people who look like they could still be in their teens. That thing had proper tires on it though, whereas every single other buggy I've ever seen had plain steel wheels.

In the summertime they are quite a common sight. Sometimes they leave the top off so they can stack the buggy with more stuff. Every once in a while you see a buggy that left the top behind driving in the rain, with the people in the buggy using umbrellas to stay dry.

What's really fun is when you're on a winding mountain road and find yourself behind a buggy with an entire family in it. The horse is exhausted because it's been uphill for the last couple of miles and the buggy is heavy because it's so fully loaded so it's barely moving, there's nowhere for it to pull off and rest, and you have to get back up to speed to overtake it before the next bend. Thankfully that's only ever happened to me once. I still wonder how that horse made it to the top of the mountain.

 

[tango]

One other thing I thought of, a friend of mine lived in an apartment with a security camera that caught a lot of the passing traffic on the road. One night the camera caught the more bizarre accident I've ever seen. An Amish buggy ran into the back of another Amish buggy. I'd never seen anything quite like it. Had I not seen the video for myself I don't think I'd have believed him.

 

[Messy]

I want to become Amish. So cool to go back in time. But with a washing machine etc. Half Amish. Only the fun stuff.

 

[tango]

I want to become Amish. So cool to go back in time. But with a washing machine etc. Half Amish. Only the fun stuff.

Half Amish sounds fun.

I had a friend whose daughter (age 4 at the time) saw the Amish and announced that she wanted to be Amish. She loved the pretty bonnets they wore, and of course when you're 4 years old that's among the most important things in life.

When my friends explained to her that she'd have to give up her toys she decided she didn't want to be Amish any more. But she still liked the bonnets, and kept the one they had bought for her.