Is The Little Mermaid demonic?

[tango]

No He is God and we have to obey Him. We're just His body on earth and we're not supposed to live anymore, but Christ in us.

Honestly Messy, all I'm seeing here is a bunch of Christian-ish jargon that doesn't mean anything and doesn't relate to the topic at hand.

 

[Messy]

Honestly Messy, all I'm seeing here is a bunch of Christian-ish jargon that doesn't mean anything and doesn't relate to the topic at hand.

Without believing that He gave us authority to overcome satan and to lay hands on the sick, so they will recover and to kick out demons, how can we ever help people? And nr. 2 if I had believed that God could give me my kids back, but was simply not willing for whatever mystery reason, I could have left Him. I came back to God when I backslid, because I had been taught in church that God cannot just do anything and it's never His fault. Only thing I did not understand then was that He could not help me, because I lived in sin.

This is just what ppl with a healing and deliverance ministry preach.

Authority: Given, Lost, and Recovered - Experiencing His Victory

Over the past six months, we’ve been walking through the Eight Steps to Experiencing His Victory. Each step is an important aspect of experiencing life as God intends it to be.

www.experiencinghisvictory.com

Here are four titles for the devil from the New Testament. He is called:

• The ruler of this world (John 14:30)
• The ruler of demons (Matthew 12:24)
• The god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4)
• The prince of the power of the air (Ephesians 2:2)

Jesus even recognized the devil’s claim over the kingdoms of the world. One of the temptations of Jesus included Satan’s showing Him all the kingdoms of this world and their glory and offering them all to Jesus if He would worship him. (Matthew 4:8-9)

Jesus accepted that the kingdoms of the world were under the authority of the devil, that is one of the reasons He came to face the devil. He came to restore the lost authority of Adam. He came as the second Adam.

 

[Albion]

Without believing that He gave us authority to overcome satan and to lay hands on the sick, so they will recover and to kick out demons, how can we ever help people?

Oh, prayer, personal contact and comforting them, helping them with the daily chores, driving them to where they need to go, making sure they have enough groceries and medicines, assisting them with their bills, keeping up communications with their relatives and medical personnel...and so many other ways that do not involve thinking you're smiting Satan at each step.

There's a lot more in the New Testament about such things than there is about beating Satan. Consider Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, for instance. What did he tell the many people who followed him and were there to hear his advice on that occasion?

And nr. 2 if I had believed that God could give me my kids back, but was simply not willing for whatever mystery reason, I could have left Him. I came back to God when I backslid, because I had been taught in church that God cannot just do anything and it's never His fault. Only thing I did not understand then was that He could not help me, because I lived in sin.

Have you ever considered active participation in an established denomination's local church?

I can't help thinking that what I've been reading here lately is about this or that book by different writers offering a hodge-podge of opinions or some lecturer's insights or something else. of that sort.

 

[Messy]

Oh, prayer, personal contact and comforting them, helping them with the daily chores, driving them to where they need to go, making sure they have enough groceries and medicines, assisting them with their bills, keeping up communications with their relatives and medical personnel...and so many other ways that do not involve thinking you're smiting Satan at each step.

There's a lot more in the New Testament about such things than there is about beating Satan. Consider Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, for instance. What did he tell the many people who followed him and were there to hear his advice on that occasion?

Why not both. The disciples had to heal the sick. No reason to kick that part of the Bible out, just because some people from crazy churches do it too.

Have you ever considered active participation in an established denomination's local church?

No. Way too boring. I have been there 3 times in my life. I can't concentrate if someone talks so boring. I went to a baptist church with my neighbours. It's so boring. They don't even pray afterwards.

 

[Albion]

Why not both. The disciples had to heal the sick. No reason to kick that part of the Bible out, just because some people from crazy churches do it too.

Are you sure that people and teachings of the crazy churches are not influencing you the most...and the information about disciples in ancient times doing miraculous things is merely a reference point for you?

And bear in mind also that many wondrous things were done by the Apostles and other of the first Christians, as God allowed, so that a witness could be made to a near-total pagan world at that time. That succeeded in taking the Gospel throughout the Roman world and firmly establishing the new faith.

Above, you asked me "why not both?'' So I say, "Why not both--individual action AND church membership and attendance?"

Again referring to your comment above, you said "No reason to kick that part of the BIble out" but you are more than willing to kick out the part about joining with other believers in a congregation, worshipping regularly, receiving the sacrament/ordinance, and all the rest that goes with being part of a community.

Albion:
Have you ever considered active participation in an established denomination's local church?

Messy: No. Way too boring. I have been there 3 times in my life.

I'm sorry to get "preachy" about this because you are a friend, but that decision of yours is clearly against the teaching of the New Testament and of the Apostles, you know.

I can't concentrate if someone talks so boring. I went to a baptist church with my neighbours. It's so boring. They don't even pray afterwards.

So....that's the only choice available to you???

 

[Messy]

Are you sure that people and teachings of the crazy churches are not influencing you the most...and the information about disciples in ancient times doing miraculous things is merely a reference point for you?

And bear in mind also that many wondrous things were done by the Apostles and other of the first Christians, as God allowed, so that a witness could be made to a near-total pagan world at that time. That succeeded in taking the Gospel throughout the Roman world and firmly establishing the new faith.


[quoteNo. Way too boring. I have been there 3 times in my life.
I think I see the problem.

So....that's the only choice available to you???
[/QUOTE]
Yes it's either this or that. We have protestant churches. They don't do anything with the Holy Spirit. The calvinists in Holland stopped a revival centuries ago, loads of ppl got saved, the reverend was even normal reformed, but the people acted crazy and had to howl and make noise, so they kicked everything Holy Spirit related out and there are normal evangelical churches, too far away, so I can watch that online and then there are the money preaching invite Bill Johnson and make us even richer people, I stay very far away from.

 

[Albion]

Yes it's either this or that. We have protestant churches. They don't do anything with the Holy Spirit. The calvinists in Holland stopped a revival centuries ago, loads of ppl got saved, the reverend was even normal reformed, but the people acted crazy and had to howl and make noise, so they kicked everything Holy Spirit related out and there are normal evangelical churches, too far away, so I can watch that online and then there are the money preaching invite Bill Johnson and make us even richer people, I stay very far away from.

Your mind is made up, I see. But the thing that occurs to me as I read these posts that seems the most peculiar is that you take inspiration from the miracles or tongues-speaking that the early Christians were known for, but at the same time you feel no reluctance to boycott (because it's "boring") corporate worship, reception of Communion, the fellowship of other believers, all of which the Bible is emphatic about and so were the same early Christians.

 

[Messy]

Your mind is made up, I see. But the thing that occurs to me as I read these posts which is the most peculiar is that you take inspiration from the miracles or tongues-speaking that the early Christians were known for, although God saw fit to have that fade away after the purpose for this was accomplished, but at the same time you feel no reluctance to boycott (because it's "boring") corporate worship, reception of Communion, the fellowship of other believers, all of which the Bible is emphatic about and so were the same early Christians.

No I want a normal church. It's not good to have no church. I saw one, but they invited a guy, who also talks about money, so then I didn't go and the church here refuses to let my teens go to the normal service. They rather use them to watch their kids. I want a church for them mostly, but those old ppl are always selfish. Who cares about kids and teens, as long as the old ones get all the spiritual food.
This reformed reverend sounds good. There's hope.

In de kerk moet ruimte zijn voor de Heilige Geest

Dominee Gerrit Vreugdenhil ontdekte als zendeling in Chili dat de gereformeerde traditie geen antwoord heeft op de realiteit van kwade machten.

www.nd.nl

There must be room in the church for the Holy Spirit
NEWS Pastor Gerrit Vreugdenhil discovered as a missionary in Chile that the Reformed tradition has no answer to the reality of evil powers.

How did the Reformed tradition lose that?
“I think in response to extremes. Because of the struggle with the Anabaptists in the sixteenth century, the Reformation pushed aside certain expressions of the Spirit. Those were only for the early days of the church, Calvin said.”

 

[Albion]

"Those were only for the early days of the church, Calvin said.”

Calvin was right about that much.

The extremists of the Reformation era were denounced by all the other Protestant groups because they amounted to what we'd today identify as cults. Most of today's charismatics would be embarrassed if they knew exactly how their forerunners carried on and what they taught in opposition to all the other church groups.

In addition, those people caused others to reduce their reliance upon the Bible, the inspired word of God, as their guide to true doctrine, substituting for it an uncontrolled, highly personalized preference for mysterious or magical apparitions and feelings, most of which are believed by other people in the group to be whatever the person claiming to have experienced them says they are.

 

[Messy]

When the young reverend Gerardus Kuijpers takes over as pastor of the reformed church in Nijkerk in April 1749, it seems that he will have a tough task to lead the churchgoers in their life with God. Yet there is hope in his heart. Reports are coming from all over the world that God is bringing revival. Like a wave, the revivals are going all over the world. Several revivals have broken out in Scotland and England, led by John Wesley and George Whitefield. The first 'Great Awakening' has broken out in the United States, led by the famous theologian Jonathan Edwards, and George Whitefield is also involved. The young colonies on the east coast of America are being visited mightily by the power of God. The world is on fire for Jesus. And if it is up to Kuijpers, the Netherlands will soon be the turn of a supernatural visit from God.


At the end of the summer of 1749, more and more people began to worry about their spiritual condition. Every meeting is defined by this question, "How can I be sure of my salvation?" Because the number of visitors is now increasing rapidly, Kuijpers decides something that is revolutionary in the existing church structure: he uses lay preachers (untrained preachers) at the house meetings, which are growing explosively in number.

The Nijkerk disturbances have begun. While Kuijpers brings God's Word from Psalm 72, people everywhere begin to tremble and cry. The defeat resulting from a sense of sin is common. In the church, people begin to cry out for God's grace. The groaning and shouting is so great that Kuijpers can hardly make himself understood. During the later sermon discussion, everyone becomes convinced of sin.

The fire of God burns in the heart of the Netherlands. In 1753, however, it came to an end. By order of Stadholder William IV, the synod introduces a ban on 'expressions' (manifestations) in the Church. This step ensures that the revival fire no longer spreads, but slowly dies down.

A pity that people always must act crazy. The ones who stopped it irritate me, but also the ones who had to be irritating and howl to ruin it.

There are also people who try to copy the events in Nijkerk by also preaching about Psalm 72:16 or imitating the manifestations. This results in crazy scenes in a church in Hoogeveen, where the police have to be involved to restore order. This, of course, fuels the critics' fire.

 

[Stravinsk]

Anyway, to expound on the original topic:

This is the abridged adult version. Except no demons. The mermaids entrap the sailors with enticements to love and sex. Except they are mermaids and don't reproduce that way. The sailors are enticed and in the end all the mermaids can do is kill and eat them. This wasn't exactly their plan, because they wanted to be with men the way women are with men, but they couldn't, and their predatory nature took over. Thus they become weeping widows.

 

[tango]

Without believing that He gave us authority to overcome satan and to lay hands on the sick, so they will recover and to kick out demons, how can we ever help people?

The last time I helped someone was by watching their kids so they could have a date night. The couple in question don't have a lot of money, and their kids know my wife and I, so we watched them for an evening. No demons driven out, no supernatural healings, but a couple helped out.

Another time I helped a lady with serious mobility issues fix her internet issues. She was quite capable of figuring out what was needed, she just physically couldn't get down on the ground to fiddle with the cables.

There's much more to helping people than the spectacular stuff a lot of the kooky preachers like to think is all that matters.

And nr. 2 if I had believed that God could give me my kids back, but was simply not willing for whatever mystery reason, I could have left Him. I came back to God when I backslid, because I had been taught in church that God cannot just do anything and it's never His fault. Only thing I did not understand then was that He could not help me, because I lived in sin.

If God can't help people who live in sin then we're all hosed. Something has to change us so we even respond to God in the first place, no?

This is just what ppl with a healing and deliverance ministry preach.

"With a healing and deliverance ministry" is the sort of thing that sounds great, if you can verify their more outlandish claims. Most of the time people who are out there somewhere who make grand claims struggle to back them up. And maybe their miracles are genuine but it's simply not possible to prove them. Either way there's something lacking about a grand claim of a great miracle that happened to someone else, somewhere else, presented without evidence. That's the kind of kooky garbage that comes from places like Bethel. Asking for proof is apparently indicative of a lack of faith.

Jesus even recognized the devil’s claim over the kingdoms of the world. One of the temptations of Jesus included Satan’s showing Him all the kingdoms of this world and their glory and offering them all to Jesus if He would worship him. (Matthew 4:8-9)

I'm not sure that not refuting a particular point is necessarily the same as accepting it. When the devil said "I'll give you all this if you worship me", Jesus' response was simply that we were to worship God alone. Whether the devil was able to keep his side of the bargain or not was immaterial.

Jesus accepted that the kingdoms of the world were under the authority of the devil, that is one of the reasons He came to face the devil. He came to restore the lost authority of Adam. He came as the second Adam.

You still didn't answer my fundamental question. If demons were the devil's servants doing the devil's bidding within the devil's earth, possessing people belonging to the devil, why didn't they tell Jesus to go pound sand? If the devil was the ruler of the earth what authority could Jesus have possibly had over him or his demons?

If the demons obeyed Jesus it means he had authority over them. That means the devil didn't have authority over the earth, because ultimately he answered to a higher authority.

You're still fundamentally saying that dominion theology is flawed while presenting dominion theology.

 

[Messy]

The last time I helped someone was by watching their kids so they could have a date night. The couple in question don't have a lot of money, and their kids know my wife and I, so we watched them for an evening. No demons driven out, no supernatural healings, but a couple helped out.

Another time I helped a lady with serious mobility issues fix her internet issues. She was quite capable of figuring out what was needed, she just physically couldn't get down on the ground to fiddle with the cables.

There's much more to helping people than the spectacular stuff a lot of the kooky preachers like to think is all that matters.



If God can't help people who live in sin then we're all hosed. Something has to change us so we even respond to God in the first place, no?



"With a healing and deliverance ministry" is the sort of thing that sounds great, if you can verify their more outlandish claims. Most of the time people who are out there somewhere who make grand claims struggle to back them up. And maybe their miracles are genuine but it's simply not possible to prove them. Either way there's something lacking about a grand claim of a great miracle that happened to someone else, somewhere else, presented without evidence. That's the kind of kooky garbage that comes from places like Bethel. Asking for proof is apparently indicative of a lack of faith.



I'm not sure that not refuting a particular point is necessarily the same as accepting it. When the devil said "I'll give you all this if you worship me", Jesus' response was simply that we were to worship God alone. Whether the devil was able to keep his side of the bargain or not was immaterial.



You still didn't answer my fundamental question. If demons were the devil's servants doing the devil's bidding within the devil's earth, possessing people belonging to the devil, why didn't they tell Jesus to go pound sand? If the devil was the ruler of the earth what authority could Jesus have possibly had over him or his demons?

If the demons obeyed Jesus it means he had authority over them. That means the devil didn't have authority over the earth, because ultimately he answered to a higher authority.

You're still fundamentally saying that dominion theology is flawed while presenting dominion theology.

They only had authority over people who sinned of course. Those kingdoms are given to me. Those were heathen kingdoms who worshipped him and other demons. Just like Allah is satan and he's the god of the muslims. They had no authority over Jesus. Those demons only had authority over the demoniac, until Jesus kicked them out. But I can't kick a demon out of Putin. He choses to follow satan. That one guy did get killed though after they prayed, Ciaucescu.

Bethel and Bill Johnson have some weird theology and fake gold dust and grave sucking. Even if real miracles have happened there, I would not tell someone to try investigate them. What's the use? I know a guy who can go through walls. He's buddhist or something. He goes out of his body. I believe him. He also saw demons, but unfortunately he didn't listen to me when I tried to warn him.
We had Jan Zijlstra, a normal man. He prayed for most sick here, but he died now. I was in his church. He was not a crazy charismatic. A doctor investigated a woman who got healed there and others.

Dick Kruijthoff faith healing

Dick Kruijthoff obtained his doctor's degree on Monday with research into faith healing. The former GP of Bleskensgraaf - after the miraculous healing of fellow townsman Janneke Vlot in 2007 - immersed himself in this subject. I saw this on Facebook. Janneke Vlot was in the Newspaper. He was...

christianityhaven.com

My ex had a little church and a lot of people got healed. When I was in Zijlstra's church my aunt had brain cancer. She lived in Tasmania. I just threw her name in the prayer bucket, because my dad told me she was sick. We prayed with the whole church for the names in the prayer bucket. That night she called my mom and she was healed. My dad saw a lot of these miracles, because it happened with aunts and other ppl he knew. He saw it from nearby. Lol he was then an atheist and their neighbour was sick, so he went there and said they should go to Jan Zijlstra's healing meeting and they said: We don't believe in God. He said: Me neither, but I've seen some amazing things happen there. Then he was a bit sad and surprised, cause they got mad and kicked him out.

It's great that you helped those people, but there are other people that need help too. I had demons bothering me. I needed people to help me with that. Or when I had a back ache. Horrible. I cannot stand pain. I was glad that I got a course in church how to heal the sick, so I could simply rebuke it. I had RSI. I had to go into benefits, quit my job. I built my faith for a year with Bible texts that God wanted to heal me and that I was healed by His stripes. Then I went to some healing service and there was a guy who just got saved and he couldnt walk and he was jumping around and I thought: Why am I so complicated? So do something you couldn't do, I slammed the floor and my shoulder was healed. Lately my mom fell. She said it was like satan kicked her in the back. I got so mad. I went there and rebuked that monster. Leave my mom alone! I don't want her to have any pain. Once my son was in the hospital and he was choking and with a cap on his mouth to get oxygen. Now a normal mom would say oh sweet darling and hug him, but I got so mad. Leave my child alone!!!! So (not audible, there were nurses) I rebuked that devil and his dad had said that God had said it was pneumonia, but the doctor thought it was asthma, so he got the wrong meds. So I told the doctor: It's not asthma. It's pneumonia. Daddy said so.
Doc: Ooooooh well if daddy said so I might as well hang all my study books in the willows, but she did check again and then he finally got the right meds and it was gone. He was happy, got up and wanted to go home.

And live in sin, I didn't mean I sinned now and then, but I really lived in sin. I hated my ex and lived together in sin with an atheist and backslid.

 

[tango]

They only had authority over people who sinned of course. Those kingdoms are given to me. Those were heathen kingdoms who worshipped him and other demons. Just like Allah is satan and he's the god of the muslims. They had no authority over Jesus. Those demons only had authority over the demoniac, until Jesus kicked them out. But I can't kick a demon out of Putin. He choses to follow satan. That one guy did get killed though after they prayed, Ciaucescu.

This still doesn't answer the question. If the people sinned and were possessed, those demons are the devil's servants doing the devil's bidding on the devil's earth, possessing someone who chose the devil. What authority does Jesus have over that situation, if the devil was the ruler of the earth?

Bethel and Bill Johnson have some weird theology and fake gold dust and grave sucking. Even if real miracles have happened there, I would not tell someone to try investigate them. What's the use? I know a guy who can go through walls. He's buddhist or something. He goes out of his body. I believe him. He also saw demons, but unfortunately he didn't listen to me when I tried to warn him.

The trouble with a lot of stuff like this is that "miracles" aren't necessarily real and even if they are they aren't necessarily from God.

It's great that you helped those people, but there are other people that need help too.

There will always be people who need help, the point is that there are all sorts of ways of helping that don't involve anything even remotely supernatural and many needs that don't even require a single word of prayer. Many needs, I'd even say most needs, can be met without anything dramatic. A couple wanting someone to watch their kids. A lonely older person wanting some company. A single mother needing help transporting her kid(s) to sports matches. Someone needing an extra pair of hands for a job. The list is endless. I may choose to pray for someone while I'm helping them in utterly non-supernatural ways but the help doesn't require anything more than a willingness to take action.

I was glad that I got a course in church how to heal the sick, so I could simply rebuke it.

The problem with things like this is that you don't heal people. God heals people. You can pray for people and God decides whether or not he is going to heal them. It's very tempting to look for books or courses or whatever to teach us how to work miracles, how to prophesy, how to heal people, but unless God has given you a specific gift and unless God is working at a specific time it's useless. You can read every book ever printed on "how to hear God" but if God isn't speaking at a particular time there is nothing to hear.

 

[Albion]

This still doesn't answer the question. If the people sinned and were possessed, those demons are the devil's servants doing the devil's bidding on the devil's earth, possessing someone who chose the devil. What authority does Jesus have over that situation, if the devil was the ruler of the earth?

I'd think we all should be able to answer without hesitation.

The Devil is the ruler of this Earth only because God allows it. Obviously, a god who is omnipotent--as we proclaim that the god of the BIble is--cannot be some sort of an equal with his opposite number, which is what some other religions have professed.

The problem with things like this is that you don't heal people. God heals people. You can pray for people and God decides whether or not he is going to heal them. It's very tempting to look for books or courses or whatever to teach us how to work miracles, how to prophesy, how to heal people, but unless God has given you a specific gift and unless God is working at a specific time it's useless. You can read every book ever printed on "how to hear God" but if God isn't speaking at a particular time there is nothing to hear.

Agreed. The idea that is to be found in various splinter churches such as are commonly seen on TV, to the effect that almost anyone can perform miracles, talk with God personally and be given to power to see events across the globe, read minds, announce divine revelation, and etc., is a dangerous error.

It's often the result of Pride, one of the seven deadly sins, and it can be observed in the practice of a lot of self-appointed ministers who are not content to be ministers or pastors but give themselves such titles as "bishop" and "prophet" and such.

 

[Messy]

The trouble with a lot of stuff like this is that "miracles" aren't necessarily real and even if they are they aren't necessarily from God.

The problem with things like this is that you don't heal people. God heals people. You can pray for people and God decides whether or not he is going to heal them. It's very tempting to look for books or courses or whatever to teach us how to work miracles, how to prophesy, how to heal people, but unless God has given you a specific gift and unless God is working at a specific time it's useless. You can read every book ever printed on "how to hear God" but if God isn't speaking at a particular time there is nothing to hear.

Yes you have to watch out. There's a lot of false evil stuff.

Yes of course God heals people and you're only a vessel, but we have to command sickness to leave in His Name. Maybe not everyone, cause not all have the gift of healing, but God already decided that He'd give the authority to heal the sick to the church and one guy asked Jesus if He wanted to make him whole and He said yes and God is not a respector of persons, nowhere did Jesus say no to someone, so the answer is always yes, except when He says no, like with those guys from a church I used to go to, who raised their grandma and she said: Let me go. I was already walking with Jesus.

Calvin and reformed wanted nothing to do with craziness, which is good, but I have the idea he was like: not everyone gets saved and not everyone gets healed, God is all powerful, so it was not God's will to save or heal them and that I don't believe. If He says yes to this one and no to that one, how can you believe without a doubt that He wants to save or heal you?

 

[Albion]

Yes you have to watch out. There's a lot of false evil stuff.

Yes of course God heals people and you're only a vessel, but we have to command sickness to leave in His Name. Maybe not everyone, cause not all have the gift of healing,

Let's get this clear. WHO has the "gift of healing?" HOW do we know it's genuine?

but God already decided that He'd give the authority to heal the sick to the church

So...valid churches, not any individual making claims on his or her own, and not some cult built upon a Jim Jones kind of leader.

and one guy asked Jesus if He wanted to make him whole and He said yes and God is not a respector of persons, nowhere did Jesus say no to someone, so the answer is always yes,

That's Jesus! It's not the many people we encounter in daily life who are making the claims for themselves and, in fact, specialize in it.

Calvin and reformed wanted nothing to do with craziness, which is good, but I have the idea he was like: not everyone gets saved and not everyone gets healed, God is all powerful, so it was not God's will to save or heal them and that I don't believe. If He says yes to this one and no to that one, how can you believe without a doubt that He wants to save or heal you?

Because those are two entirely different things??

 

[Messy]

Let's get this clear. WHO has the "gift of healing?" HOW do we know it's genuine?

So...valid churches, not any individual making claims on his or her own, and not some cult built upon a Jim Jones kind of leader.

That's Jesus! It's not the people that we encounter in daily life who are making the claims for themselves.

Because those are two entirely different things??

-Look at the fruit. Look at their confession. There are occult ppl doing tricks, just like with Moses and those wizards. And ask God.
For instance Todd Bentley, I fell for that. Yay! So many ppl raised from the dead! It was just lies. I looked him up, cause my brother kept watching him and I wanted to warn him. He met the angel from Branham and went out of his body when he did and while this 'revival' was going on, he was having adultery w his nanny, who he later married. But watch out, even Judas healed the sick. It's just a gift and says nothing about someone's character, but better not let someone like that lay hands on you.

- yes

- Jesus said to him: I want it. Be made whole. So why would He say to me: I don't want it, when He said that to noone and instead He said: do the same works as Me, I have given you power, go to the elders and they will pray and the one who's sick will be healed. Disease is from satan and satan has to move it.

- It's all in the package. He carried our sicknesses and sins on the cross.

 

[Messy]

This still doesn't answer the question. If the people sinned and were possessed, those demons are the devil's servants doing the devil's bidding on the devil's earth, possessing someone who chose the devil. What authority does Jesus have over that situation, if the devil was the ruler of the earth?

He was going to die and carry their sins and sicknesses. If He had not done that and hadn't raised from the dead, noone could be healed or saved or get the authority back to kick satan out.

 

[Albion]

-Look at the fruit.

I see a lot of bad fruit.

Look at their confession.

Some of these folks are certainly unorthodox in their confession/beliefs.

There are occult ppl doing tricks, just like with Moses and those wizards. And ask God.
For instance Todd Bentley, I fell for that. Yay!

So, wouldn't that be cause for caution when dealing with others of that sort?

So many ppl raised from the dead! It was just lies. I looked him up, cause my brother kept watching him and I wanted to warn him. He met the angel from Branham and went out of his body when he did and while this 'revival' was going on, he was having adultery w his nanny, who he later married. But watch out, even Judas healed the sick. It's just a gift and says nothing about someone's character, but better not let someone like that lay hands on you.

Okay, so then...?

- Jesus said to him: I want it. Be made whole. So why would He say to me: I don't want it, when He said that to noone and instead He said: do the same works as Me, I have given you power, go to the elders and they will pray and the one who's sick will be healed.

But this is either Jesus himself or his church doing that healing. You said at one place or another that these are the ones you have in mind, but then it seems that you are saying that almost any ol' churchgoing person who thinks or says he's been gifted by the HS is genuine.