The indictment of Donald Trump

[Jazzy]

How do you feel about the indictment of Donald Trump?

 

[tango]

As with most things these days it's all but impossible to know just who is telling the truth about what really happened. It does seem odd that everything went more or less silent after the January 6 issue only to now suddenly resurface at a politically convenient time. And all the while the money the Chinese allegedly paid to the Bidens doesn't show much sign of being investigated.

It does seem to be more politically motivated legal wrangling, and is almost certainly going to mean politics just gets ugly. If one side can use legal wranglings to harass the other side they don't get to complain when roles are reversed.

It seems to me that the country looks more and more like a tinpot banana republic with every new development in cases like this one.

 

[Albion]

As with most things these days it's all but impossible to know just who is telling the truth about what really happened. It does seem odd that everything went more or less silent after the January 6 issue only to now suddenly resurface at a politically convenient time. And all the while the money the Chinese allegedly paid to the Bidens doesn't show much sign of being investigated.

Yeeesssss, but it's not entirely a mystery. Not when we survey the trail that's been left by the opponents of free elections.

For one thing, the elections of 2022 and 2020 were marred by wholescale innovations, usually introduced without going through the appropriate legal channels, doing which made possible widespread ballot-stuffing, voting by unregistered (and sometimes, dead) voters, multiple votes by the same person, and etc.

Almost simultaneously, there was the false claim that the 45th president had been in cahoots with the Russians, even to the level of having this supposed alliance account for his election.

As part of that move, government officials lied to a court in order to set up a board of inquisition. Several years and tens of millions of wasted dollars later, no less than the head of that investigation indicated that there had been nothing to it.

But there still were two impeachments by the House of Representatives, based on charges that were hastily defined and imprecise. The outcome favored impeachment by nearly straight-party line voting.

Then came January 6, which was not an insurrection, not urged by the president upon his followers, and not in any way "the greatest threat to democracy since (whatever)."

Following this, a congressional investigating committee was set up in which the opposition party was not allowed to choose any members, quite in defiance of normal procedures. The committee produced nothing except baseless accusations.

In addition, the campaign to subvert or dissolve the Electoral College goes forward, led by the same forces, along with various attempts to change our voting system in order to have the ballot in the General Election allow a choice only between two different members of the same political party.

And so we've come to the stage of authorizing armed attacks upon the home and personal property of the former president and his wife, followed by the first of the prosecutions that leaders of the political party in question had publicly stated they favored.

It seems to me that the country looks more and more like a tinpot banana republic with every new development in cases like this one.

Hard to deny, isn't it?

 

[Messy]

How do you feel about the indictment of Donald Trump?

From that porn actress? I don't really care that they threatened her. She didnt care about his wife either or all those other marriages she ruined.

 

[Josiah]

On the one hand.....

I am NO FAN of Trump.
I did NOT vote for him, either time.
I affirm a lot of his views and actions (especially the Supreme Court appointment)
But I find HIM disgusting and troubling.
We CAN elect persons with his views without electing HIM.
And I am very, very disappointed that it seems now that he'll get the nomination of the Republicans, he has a real cult following (that also troubles me).

On the other hand....

I'm SICK of all the legal ploys to undo democracy and the electorial process. The STUPID and hypocritical attempts to impeach him (successful in a couple of cases), all the beyond weak legal attempts - including this ones. CLEARLY, liberals fear the voters and feel they need to use legal means to insure Trump goes away. This is very unamerican, very undemocratic and it wreaks of banana republics, the old Soviet Union and even Hitler. It sticks. Want to not have Trump as president? It's easy.... the American and Democratic and Constitutional way to do that: beat him at the election box. Put up a good candidate that the clear majority of the voters prefer. Easy. American. Civilized. (Of course, all they have is Biden and a lot of CRAZY wacko socialists/communists).



.

 

[tango]

Yeeesssss, but it's not entirely a mystery. Not when we survey the trail that's been left by the opponents of free elections.

For one thing, the elections of 2022 and 2020 were marred by wholescale innovations, usually introduced without going through the appropriate legal channels, doing which made possible widespread ballot-stuffing, voting by unregistered (and sometimes, dead) voters, multiple votes by the same person, and etc.

Yes, but racism...

ETA: I forgot to mention orangemanbad.

Almost simultaneously, there was the false claim that the 45th president had been in cahoots with the Russians, even to the level of having this supposed alliance account for his election.

Yes, but sexism. That's the only way Hillary could have lost. The talking heads on TV told us so.

As part of that move, government officials lied to a court in order to set up a board of inquisition. Several years and tens of millions of wasted dollars later, no less than the head of that investigation indicated that there had been nothing to it.

But there still were two impeachments by the House of Representatives, based on charges that were hastily defined and imprecise. The outcome favored impeachment by nearly straight-party line voting.

Of course. The retarded Republicans obviously don't know the truth when they see it. Because, well, obviously. And racism. And probably something else too.

Then came January 6, which was not an insurrection, not urged by the president upon his followers, and not in any way "the greatest threat to democracy since (whatever)."

Following this, a congressional investigating committee was set up in which the opposition party was not allowed to choose any members, quite in defiance of normal procedures. The committee produced nothing except baseless accusations.

Switching tack to be a little more serious here, I struggle to understand the whole "inciting insurrection" line. I read the entirety of Trump's speech wondering whether there was anything in it that woul count as inciting anything. If it was there I certainly didn't see it. I wouldn't normally bother to read the speech but words like "insurrection" and "sedition" imply some pretty serious stuff so I figured I'd look for myself.

In addition, the campaign to subvert or dissolve the Electoral College goes forward, led by the same forces, along with various attempts to change our voting system in order to have the ballot in the General Election allow a choice only between two different members of the same political party.

It always makes me laugh when people say it's undemocratic. Like, that's the entire point of it.

And so we've come to the stage of authorizing armed attacks upon the home and personal property of the former president and his wife, followed by the first of the prosecutions that leaders of the political party in question had publicly stated they favored.

It will be fun to hear the howling if, after Biden leaves office, a future Republican goes after he and Hunter with the same fervor that Trump is currently facing.

Hard to deny, isn't it?

Sadly, yes. And increasingly so.

 

[heavenslight]

If Trump is nominated by the Republican Party for president and avoids jail he will probably lose the election. Trump's defeat is likely to have negative spinoff effects on other Republican candidates as well. Trump retains high Republican approval and has strong support among a core group of Republican voters. His lack of support among independents coupled with his legal difficulties dooms his election bid. Biden may have low approval ratings and Democrats may lack passion for him but Trump's liabilities are so great that he will not be able to win.

 

[Albion]

If Trump is nominated by the Republican Party for president and avoids jail he will probably lose the election. Trump's defeat is likely to have negative spinoff effects on other Republican candidates as well. Trump retains high Republican approval and has strong support among a core group of Republican voters. His lack of support among independents coupled with his legal difficulties dooms his election bid. Biden may have low approval ratings and Democrats may lack passion for him but Trump's liabilities are so great that he will not be able to win.

Not necessarily...because of three new, or relatively new, issues.

1. Biden had been seen as a Moderate when he opposed Trump for election. Now, however, he's seen as a front man doing the bidding of corporate bosses, Communist China, and various extremists in his own party. He's become one of the worst presidents in history, which is something no one thought would be the future when he won election as President.

2. He's not only older now, but quite obviously so...and he'd be the oldest president in history if he were to survive well into his second term. It was assumed in 2020 that he'd only seek one term because of his age at that time.

3. With the events now unfolding in New York, Trump is becoming more than "Trump, as usual." He's become the central victim in the greatest attempt in American history to subvert democracy and establish a one-party government for good. An unknown number of people who had opposed Trump previously, but who become outraged at what's now being done to him and to the country, are likely to feel compelled to vote for him, if only as a protest.

 

[Faith]

On the one hand.....

I am NO FAN of Trump.
I did NOT vote for him, either time.
I affirm a lot of his views and actions (especially the Supreme Court appointment)
But I find HIM disgusting and troubling.
We CAN elect persons with his views without electing HIM.
And I am very, very disappointed that it seems now that he'll get the nomination of the Republicans, he has a real cult following (that also troubles me).

On the other hand....

I'm SICK of all the legal ploys to undo democracy and the electorial process. The STUPID and hypocritical attempts to impeach him (successful in a couple of cases), all the beyond weak legal attempts - including this ones. CLEARLY, liberals fear the voters and feel they need to use legal means to insure Trump goes away. This is very unamerican, very undemocratic and it wreaks of banana republics, the old Soviet Union and even Hitler. It sticks. Want to not have Trump as president? It's easy.... the American and Democratic and Constitutional way to do that: beat him at the election box. Put up a good candidate that the clear majority of the voters prefer. Easy. American. Civilized. (Of course, all they have is Biden and a lot of CRAZY wacko socialists/communists).



.

 

[Faith]

I, too, find trump disgusting and hope he doesn’t win again.

 

[Messy]

I, too, find trump disgusting and hope he doesn’t win again.

I am a Trump fan.

 

[Albion]

I am NO FAN of Trump.
I did NOT vote for him, either time.
I affirm a lot of his views and actions (especially the Supreme Court appointment)
But I find HIM disgusting and troubling.
We CAN elect persons with his views without electing HIM.

What makes you think so?