Pro-life question

[Jazzy]

If the pro-life argument is that life begins at conception, why aren’t pro-lifers demonstrating outside of fertility clinics where thousands of viable embryos are discarded each year?

 

[Lamb]

Probably because they don't know about it.

 

[tango]

If life begins at conception then an IUD is pretty much a murder weapon.

Is the pro-life stance necessarily that life begins at conception? Opposition to abortion merely requires the view that life begins at some point prior to birth, with opposition to abortion after that time being the purpose.

I know some people who believe life begins at implantation and others who believe life begins when the fetus has its own blood that is discernible from the mother's.

 

[Messy]

Why would you demonstrate? Ppl do what they want anyway. Suppose they would let you save them by getting pregnant with one or else their parents let em be destroyed, the answer would be no. What if it's a potential sociopath? Amber Heard has frozen embryo's.

 

[Messy]

If life begins at conception then an IUD is pretty much a murder weapon.

As far as I know, it is. I don't think you may use that as a christian. It works the same as the morning after pill.

 

[tango]

As far as I know, it is. I don't think you may use that as a christian. It works the same as the morning after pill.

I don't think it's as simple as "may" or "may not".

If you believe life begins at conception then the IUD would be like the morning after pill. If you believe life begins at implantation, or at some later time, both become acceptable to use.

 

[Messy]

I don't think it's as simple as "may" or "may not".

If you believe life begins at conception then the IUD would be like the morning after pill. If you believe life begins at implantation, or at some later time, both become acceptable to use.

What if Mary had used the morning after pill? Suppose it existed. Would it be sin? What if Judas' mom used it. I'd be happy for him and not care one bit, although I believe it's sin.

 

[tango]

What if Mary had used the morning after pill? Suppose it existed. Would it be sin? What if Judas' mom used it. I'd be happy for him and not care one bit, although I believe it's sin.

You can "what if" all you want, the question of whether something is sinful isn't determined by a "what if" scenario.

What if a recovering anorexic heard overweight people talking about slimming techniques and decided to stop eating again? What if a recovering alcoholic saw a couple of people enjoying a beer and relapsed? What if someone with a suspended driving license read the verse about not forsaking gathering and drove to church?

If you believe life begins at conception then by all means avoid using IUDs and the morning-after pill. Acting on a personal conviction is one thing. To make it more universal requires more than a personal conviction.

 

[Messy]

Jesus' life as a human started with one cell. It would have been sin to go against God's will and destroy the cell. Then why would it not be sin to destroy another cell (unless it's a chicken)? We may not kill.

For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. … Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them" (Psalm 139:13, 16).

Isaiah 44
24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
who formed you from the womb

Job 33:4 says, "The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

Does life begin at conception according to the Bible?

Does life begin at conception according to the Bible? Is it biblical to say that life begins at conception? What Bible verses support the concept that life begins at conception?

www.compellingtruth.org

I had a dream decades ago that mothers froze their adult sons alive in a freezer and I woke up and thought: they do that. They put their kids in a freezer.

But they do what they want anyway. Amazing that in America christians still have a say. In Holland the doc gets mad at my mom cause she doesnt want to kill my dad. The world has become crazy.

If ppl don't want a kid and are too stupid to just not have unprotected sex and want to kill if it goes wrong, they should be forced to be sterilized. They do that with cats and dogs. Cats and dogs are treated better than humans. I was more or less forced by my ex, cause he didnt want to have it done. Thank God. I was insane enough to get another kid with another man after we divorced and would not have aborted it. He wanted a kid, so I wanted to let the sterilization be undone and then he said I needed the 20 some weeks water check, cause if it had Down's I would have to have an abortion, since those ppl have no right to live. I said great I dont have to feel guilty anymore that I don't want anymore kids.

 

[tango]

Jesus' life as a human started with one cell. It would have been sin to go against God's will and destroy the cell. Then why would it not be sin to destroy another cell (unless it's a chicken)? We may not kill.

Here you're starting with an assertion and then broadening it without giving any reason. Jesus' life starting with a cell doesn't mean that cell was inherently alive.

For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. … Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them" (Psalm 139:13, 16).

Isaiah 44
24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
who formed you from the womb

Job 33:4 says, "The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

None of this proves that abortion is inherently sinful. People like to fall back on it but when God made man in the first place he created Adam from the dust and only then breathed life into him. So for a time there was this thing, man-sized and man-shaped, made by God, that was not living.

The question of whether life begins at conception, at implantation, at birth, or at some other time isn't answered by any of these verses.

Does life begin at conception according to the Bible?

Does life begin at conception according to the Bible? Is it biblical to say that life begins at conception? What Bible verses support the concept that life begins at conception?

www.compellingtruth.org

I had a dream decades ago that mothers froze their adult sons alive in a freezer and I woke up and thought: they do that. They put their kids in a freezer.

But they do what they want anyway. Amazing that in America christians still have a say. In Holland the doc gets mad at my mom cause she doesnt want to kill my dad. The world has become crazy.

If ppl don't want a kid and are too stupid to just not have unprotected sex and want to kill if it goes wrong, they should be forced to be sterilized. They do that with cats and dogs. Cats and dogs are treated better than humans. I was more or less forced by my ex, cause he didnt want to have it done. Thank God. I was insane enough to get another kid with another man after we divorced and would not have aborted it. He wanted a kid, so I wanted to let the sterilization be undone and then he said I needed the 20 some weeks water check, cause if it had Down's I would have to have an abortion, since those ppl have no right to live. I said great I dont have to feel guilty anymore that I don't want anymore kids.

If only it were as simple as "don't have unprotected sex". Sometimes protection fails. Sometimes people get raped and end up pregnant. Sometimes parents who desperately wanted a child find there's a problem with the pregnancy that will literally kill the mother if she continues it (I know a couple who ended up in just that situation, where their options were to either abort a pregnancy at nearly 8 months and lose the child they were looking forward to welcoming into the world, or not aborting and almost certainly losing both the mother and the baby) Yes, there's a lot to be said for people not sleeping with anyone who looks their way but that's only part of the story.

I don't like the concept of abortion but it really isn't as simple as many people make it out to be, and very easy to simply stand in what's little more than judgment over someone else. That doesn't work very well unless you're ready to get your hands dirty and help them from where they are - many people offer something that ultimately boils down to "I wouldn't start from here".

 

[Messy]

Here you're starting with an assertion and then broadening it without giving any reason. Jesus' life starting with a cell doesn't mean that cell was inherently alive.



None of this proves that abortion is inherently sinful. People like to fall back on it but when God made man in the first place he created Adam from the dust and only then breathed life into him. So for a time there was this thing, man-sized and man-shaped, made by God, that was not living.

The question of whether life begins at conception, at implantation, at birth, or at some other time isn't answered by any of these verses.



If only it were as simple as "don't have unprotected sex". Sometimes protection fails. Sometimes people get raped and end up pregnant. Sometimes parents who desperately wanted a child find there's a problem with the pregnancy that will literally kill the mother if she continues it (I know a couple who ended up in just that situation, where their options were to either abort a pregnancy at nearly 8 months and lose the child they were looking forward to welcoming into the world, or not aborting and almost certainly losing both the mother and the baby) Yes, there's a lot to be said for people not sleeping with anyone who looks their way but that's only part of the story.

I don't like the concept of abortion but it really isn't as simple as many people make it out to be, and very easy to simply stand in what's little more than judgment over someone else. That doesn't work very well unless you're ready to get your hands dirty and help them from where they are - many people offer something that ultimately boils down to "I wouldn't start from here".

If the mother is in danger and it's a christian, the church should just pray for healing. If she doesn't believe in God, I can't blame em and don't think they should forbid it, cause the kid goes to heaven anyway, but it is sin. You can just help ppl and not lie to them that it's no big deal. God forgives, but if they're told it's fine they won't even ask Him to forgive them. And this is for a few ppl. The majority is rich and lazy. My ex helped a girl who got an abortion. She didnt want it but her bf kicked her in the belly. On a site she put bye sweet darling, mommy loves you, bye little star and I read what the others had written. Bye little star. Mom and dad already had 3 kids. Come on now. You even get a load of govt money here when you get a kid, free school, free health care, free birth. My niece was pregnant at the same time as me. We both had 2 kids already. Both divorced around the same time. All of a sudden she wasnt pregnant anymore. Too much fuzz 3 kids alone. It was late term, so she went from Germany to Holland to have it done. It was forbidden there. She's twice as rich as me. She's not christian and brainwashed. I shouldnt judge her, but come on. Its always oh sweet darling, mommy is the most important one, but a mother who just kills her born kid can go to jail for it.

I remember decades ago they had this argument, as if only some poor raped 16 y o girls got an abortion. This is about Holland. It's been legal here for decades:

In 2021, 31,049 terminations of pregnancy were performed. This is 315 fewer pregnancy terminations than in 2020. The vast majority of pregnancy terminations (85%) take place in the first trimester (up to and including 12 weeks of pregnancy). More than half of the treated women already had one or more children.

You can get sterilized for free here btw. They rather perform an abortion than a sterilization.

 

[Albion]

If the pro-life argument is that life begins at conception, why aren’t pro-lifers demonstrating outside of fertility clinics where thousands of viable embryos are discarded each year?

For one, they may get arrested if they do that. There is a recent instance of a women being hassled and arrested by police merely for standing silently across from an abortuary which was closed at the time and doing so with her head bowed while reportedly holding a rosary. She was accused of praying!

But in addition, traditionalist or conservative people are naturally more inclined to be private and law-abiding as compared with leftists whose role models favor civil disorder as a means of effecting change.

 

[Messy]

Here you're starting with an assertion and then broadening it without giving any reason. Jesus' life starting with a cell doesn't mean that cell was inherently alive.

None of this proves that abortion is inherently sinful. People like to fall back on it but when God made man in the first place he created Adam from the dust and only then breathed life into him. So for a time there was this thing, man-sized and man-shaped, made by God, that was not living.

He made us all from one blood. He only had to breathe in Adam. Not even Eve. A cell doesn't start to live at say 6 weeks when God breathes His Spirit in it. A cell is alive, because it splits and grows. If it was dead, it would stay one cell, waiting for God to breathe life into it.

https://i.postimg.cc/T1LSLyK5/D0-Rcok1-X4-AEJYht.jpg

 

[Messy]

Hey Living Waters has a new guy. I only knew Ray Comfort. This one is funny.

 

[tango]

If the mother is in danger and it's a christian, the church should just pray for healing.

If only life were this simple. I suspect the couple I described might have considered prayers before terminating the baby they so desperately wanted.

If she doesn't believe in God, I can't blame em and don't think they should forbid it, cause the kid goes to heaven anyway, but it is sin. You can just help ppl and not lie to them that it's no big deal. God forgives, but if they're told it's fine they won't even ask Him to forgive them. And this is for a few ppl. The majority is rich and lazy. My ex helped a girl who got an abortion. She didnt want it but her bf kicked her in the belly. On a site she put bye sweet darling, mommy loves you, bye little star and I read what the others had written. Bye little star. Mom and dad already had 3 kids. Come on now. You even get a load of govt money here when you get a kid, free school, free health care, free birth. My niece was pregnant at the same time as me. We both had 2 kids already. Both divorced around the same time. All of a sudden she wasnt pregnant anymore. Too much fuzz 3 kids alone. It was late term, so she went from Germany to Holland to have it done. It was forbidden there. She's twice as rich as me. She's not christian and brainwashed. I shouldnt judge her, but come on. Its always oh sweet darling, mommy is the most important one, but a mother who just kills her born kid can go to jail for it.

I remember decades ago they had this argument, as if only some poor raped 16 y o girls got an abortion. This is about Holland. It's been legal here for decades:

In 2021, 31,049 terminations of pregnancy were performed. This is 315 fewer pregnancy terminations than in 2020. The vast majority of pregnancy terminations (85%) take place in the first trimester (up to and including 12 weeks of pregnancy). More than half of the treated women already had one or more children.

You can get sterilized for free here btw. They rather perform an abortion than a sterilization.

Maybe you can get sterilized for free where you live. That doesn't help people who don't have the option, or who don't want to be sterilized but don't want to carry a rapist's baby to term, or who might be able to have a successful pregnancy despite one going badly wrong.

 

[tango]

He made us all from one blood. He only had to breathe in Adam. Not even Eve. A cell doesn't start to live at say 6 weeks when God breathes His Spirit in it. A cell is alive, because it splits and grows. If it was dead, it would stay one cell, waiting for God to breathe life into it.

https://i.postimg.cc/T1LSLyK5/D0-Rcok1-X4-AEJYht.jpg

Again, you're throwing out a lot of assertions with precious little to back anything.

It sounds like what you've got is little more than "I believe this, the end". Which is fine for making decisions that affect you but you don't get to impose it on anyone else without something a lot more solid.

 

[Albion]

None of this proves that abortion is inherently sinful. People like to fall back on it but when God made man in the first place he created Adam from the dust and only then breathed life into him. So for a time there was this thing, man-sized and man-shaped, made by God, that was not living.

I really cannot accept that this is the actual meaning of that wording.

The question of whether life begins at conception, at implantation, at birth, or at some other time isn't answered by any of these verses.

That's true.

If only it were as simple as "don't have unprotected sex". Sometimes protection fails. Sometimes people get raped and end up pregnant. Sometimes parents who desperately wanted a child find there's a problem with the pregnancy that will literally kill the mother if she continues it (I know a couple who ended up in just that situation, where their options were to either abort a pregnancy at nearly 8 months and lose the child they were looking forward to welcoming into the world, or not aborting and almost certainly losing both the mother and the baby)

Yes, and that's the way the advocates for changing everything usually approach the issue. First, the most easily appreciated, if uncommon, reasons for change are made out to be central to the matter. THEN, after the laws get changed, the same people who had successfully argued on the original grounds switch to something less easily accepted.

And after that, they will raise the stakes again. So now, for just one stunning example, we have actual infanticide being advocated on the "pro-choice" side of the argument that still is supposedly about "abortion."

That stance would have been unthinkable only a few years earlier. Yet in this case, it's not just kooks or extremists who are carrying a torch that wasn't part of the situation earlier. The advocates of infanticide include some people who are in very high places of responsibility.

I don't like the concept of abortion but it really isn't as simple as many people make it out to be, and very easy to simply stand in what's little more than judgment over someone else. That doesn't work very well unless you're ready to get your hands dirty and help them from where they are - many people offer something that ultimately boils down to "I wouldn't start from here".

Would it be acceptable to apply the same standard to killing one's neighbor--for a good reason, of course? If not, why not?

 

[Albion]

If life begins at conception then an IUD is pretty much a murder weapon.

Is the pro-life stance necessarily that life begins at conception? Opposition to abortion merely requires the view that life begins at some point prior to birth, with opposition to abortion after that time being the purpose.

I know some people who believe life begins at implantation and others who believe life begins when the fetus has its own blood that is discernible from the mother's.

I hear you. But the "problem" in practical terms is that the pro-abortion side will not hear of ANY restrictions on abortion, while the pro-life side has been willing to strike a compromise--a number of possible ones, in fact--even if those would conflict with these people's personal moral judgments. There's no denying this fact.

You remember that Congress was almost able to stop what were politely called "late term abortions" (meaning artificially holding the child in the birth canal, at what would otherwise be the moment of birth, long enough for it to be murdered), but Pelosi and Co. defeated the proposal.

 

[Messy]

I hear you. But the "problem" in practical terms is that the pro-abortion side will not hear of ANY restrictions on abortion, while the pro-life side has been willing to strike a compromise--a number of possible ones, in fact--even if those would conflict with these people's personal moral judgments. There's no denying this fact.

You remember that Congress was almost able to stop what were politely called "late term abortions" (meaning artificially holding the child in the birth canal, at what would otherwise be the moment of birth, long enough for it to be murdered), but Pelosi and Co. defeated the proposal.

I'm against the morning after pill, but I looked it up yesterday and apparently an iud is worse and the morning after pill only works to slow it down and no fruit gets killed. I'd say do that then. Sell it in the grocery store for almost nothing or give it for free, since everyone wants to have abortions these days. You can better prevent it than rip the arms off with 10 weeks. Saw a former abortion doctor tell how he did it. Eeww. And use an iud if you insist on killing your kid. At least a cell doesnt feel it and you can't stop em anyway to have an abortion elsewhere.

 

[Messy]

Again, you're throwing out a lot of assertions with precious little to back anything.

It

If only life were this simple. I suspect the couple I described might have considered prayers before terminating the baby they so desperately wanted.



Maybe you can get sterilized for free where you live. That doesn't help people who don't have the option, or who don't want to be sterilized but don't want to carry a rapist's baby to term, or who might be able to have a successful pregnancy despite one going badly wrong.

They should not force the mother to get killed. I think in that case they may chose, cause it's just like with a conjoined twin and one has to be killed or they both die. Best would be a miracle, but else let them decide.
If they want ppl to stop killing their babies, they should stop whining that they cant be sterilized and stop letting them pay for it.
With rape you can take the morning after pill. If one goes wrong, because the mother or kid gets sick, that's different than selfishness. If they kill one kid just for their own laziness, they should be forced to be sterilized, but they won't do that anyway. Saw a woman online. I want a baby. Gets pregnant. Oh my hormones wehh I dont want a baby. Abortion. This was a Dutch woman. Oh she wanted a baby again. Gets pregnant again. Oh no my hormones weehh next kid gets killed and christians are forced to pay for it. It's insane. She should have been forced to get sterilized.