Do you agree that there are verses in the Bible that seem to express contradictory ideas?

[Lucian Hodoboc]

The question is in the title. If you agree with this fact, why do you think that there are verses that seem to express contradictory ideas? If you don't agree, why do you think about the people who point out these verses that you don't find contradictory?

 

[atpollard]

Paradox: “a seemingly absurd or self-contradictory statement or proposition that when investigated or explained may prove to be well founded or true.”

Scripture contains multiple paradoxes.

 

[Messy]

You have to combine the texts and not skip the ones you don't like and then there's no contradiction.

 

[atpollard]

Proverbs 26:4-5 [NKJV]
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, Lest he be wise in his own eyes.

Commentary on Proverbs 26:4-5 by Matthew Henry
See here the noble security of the scripture-style, which seems to contradict itself, but really does not. Wise men have need to be directed how to deal with fools; and they have never more need of wisdom than in dealing with such, to know when to keep silence and when to speak, for there may be a time for both.

1. In some cases a wise man will not set his wit to that of a fool so far as to answer him according to his folly "If he boast of himself, do not answer him by boasting of thyself. If he rail and talk passionately, do not thou rail and talk passionately too. If he tell one great lie, do not thou tell another to match it. If he calumniate thy friends, do not thou calumniate his. If he banter, do not answer him in his own language, lest thou be like him, even thou, who knowest better things, who hast more sense, and hast been better taught."
2. Yet, in other cases, a wise man will use his wisdom for the conviction of a fool, when, by taking notice of what he says, there may be hopes of doing good, or at least preventing further, mischief, either to himself or others. "If thou have reason to think that thy silence will be deemed an evidence of the weakness of thy cause, or of thy own weakness, in such a case answer him, and let it be an answer ad hominem-to the man, beat him at his own weapons, and that will be an answer ad rem-to the point, or as good as one. If he offer any thing that looks like an argument, an answer that, and suit thy answer to his case. If he think, because thou dost not answer him, that what he says is unanswerable, then give him an answer, lest he be wise in his own conceit and boast of a victory." For (Luke 7:35) Wisdom's children must justify her.

 

[prism]

The question is in the title. If you agree with this fact, why do you think that there are verses that seem to express contradictory ideas? If you don't agree, why do you think about the people who point out these verses that you don't find contradictory?

It would help if you gave some examples of seemingly 'contradictory ideas'. (as stated in the title)

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

It would help if you gave some examples of seemingly 'contradictory ideas'. (as stated in the title)

There you go: https://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/50-000-Errors-and-Biblical-contradictions-190303

 

[prism]

There you go: https://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/50-000-Errors-and-Biblical-contradictions-190303

I don’t click on links, can you give a couple of examples?

 

[Albion]

The question is in the title. If you agree with this fact, why do you think that there are verses that seem to express contradictory ideas?

To answer your question, "yes," there are verses that "seem" to express contradictory ideas. There are, in fact, many instances of different verses apparently contradicting other ones, but almost without exception this owes to the reader not understanding the meaning of one or the other of the verses.

Often this happens because one of the verses is taken out of context, and the reader could easily have seen the reason for his confusion by reading the surrounding verses.

That said, you (or someone else) would have to present particular examples of contradictory verses if we here were to deal more directly with apparent instances of verses conflicting with each other and also explain what seems to be in conflict. In the link you gave us, there are a lot of verses quoted but no commentary on them, so IMHO that doesn't help much.

 

[tango]

Matthew 10:33 - But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. (NKJV)

Peter denied Jesus three times but wasn't denied before God.

Here perhaps the warning to those who "den(ies) me before men" refers to ongoing denial rather than a rapid response under pressure.

There's more commentary on it here:

What does Matthew 10:33 mean? | BibleRef.com

But whoever denies Me before people, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven. - What is the meaning of Matthew 10:33?

www.bibleref.com

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

I don’t click on links, can you give a couple of examples?

You literally clicked on links when you registered on this forum. It would have been impossible to register without clicking on links.

 

[prism]

You literally clicked on links when you registered on this forum. It would have been impossible to register without clicking on links.

I knew of this Forum previously, I’m not in the habit of clicking on unrecognizable links just as I don’t open unrecognizable emails.
Anyways, if you can’t give a couple of examples, I’ll take your ‘contradictory claims‘ as bogus.

 

[YESLORDIWILL]

The author of Malachi seems to express contradictory ideas when he mentions that the Lord's name shall be great among the Gentiles and the heathen (Mal 1:11). He says, Have we not all one father? Hath not one God created us (Mal 2:10)? The LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away (Mal 2:14-16).

But he also says, Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god. The LORD will cut off the man that doeth this (Mal 2:11-12).

We all know that Jonathan, Jahaziah, Meshullam and Shabbethai (who were known to be upright men) were opposed to putting these wives away (Ezra 10) although Ezra and Nehemiah both thought it best. Remember me, O my God, for good (Neh 13:31).

 

[Prepared]

The question is in the title. If you agree with this fact, why do you think that there are verses that seem to express contradictory ideas? If you don't agree, why do you think about the people who point out these verses that you don't find contradictory?

The question is in the title. If you agree with this fact, why do you think that there are verses that seem to express contradictory ideas? If you don't agree, why do you think about the people who point out these verses that you don't find contradictory?

There is one for me, I would like to hear other people's opinion. Scripture indicates hell is a place of eternal torture such as Isaiah 66:22-24 _ Revelation 14:11.... Scripture also indicates annihilation/destruction of those souls 2 Thessalonians 1 5:10 _ Malachi 4:1 _ Psalms 37:20 _ 2nd Peter 3:7.
Is Revelation 20:10 speaking of the beast and false prophet and the devil only being tormented day and night forever and ever?

Is hell eternal torture or is it annihilation for eternity?

 

[prism]

There is one for me, I would like to hear other people's opinion. Scripture indicates hell is a place of eternal torture such as Isaiah 66:22-24 _ Revelation 14:11.... Scripture also indicates annihilation/destruction of those souls 2 Thessalonians 1 5:10 _ Malachi 4:1 _ Psalms 37:20 _ 2nd Peter 3:7.
Is Revelation 20:10 speaking of the beast and false prophet and the devil only being tormented day and night forever and ever?

Is hell eternal torture or is it annihilation for eternity?

There is this:

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV) 9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

 

[Prepared]

There is this:

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV) 9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

I listed Revelations 14:11 - it is apparent you saw this - so I'm guessing you're saying eternal torment is what will actually occur.

 

[prism]

I listed Revelations 14:11 - it is apparent you saw this - so I'm guessing you're saying eternal torment is what will actually occur.

I didn’t see that, but yes, I bolded ‘forever and ever’. I don't think it's up to our vote in any case, but if push comes to shove, I'd throw my hat in with eternal torment...He suffered and died so that we wouldn't have to...He was not annihilated in our stead.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

He suffered and died so that we wouldn't have to...

But people have been suffering and dying just like before the crucifixion of Jesus. No one became immortal.

 

[prism]

But people have been suffering and dying just like before the crucifixion of Jesus. No one became immortal.

The suffering Christians endure in this life is nothing compared to what the Christ rejectors will suffer throughout eternity…He suffered and died so we wouldn’t have to.

For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison,
— 2 Corinthians 4:17

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

The suffering Christians endure in this life is nothing compared to what the Christ rejectors will suffer throughout eternity…He suffered and died so we wouldn’t have to.

For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison,
— 2 Corinthians 4:17

Make it make sense.

The general consensus in Christianity is that Christ suffered and died INSTEAD OF those who believe in Him. That means in their place. That means that those people were supposed to suffer physically like He did, and die physically, like He did, but they didn't. He suffered and died instead of them. That's what substitution means. Am I understanding this correctly?

People who believe in Him still suffer and die. Physically. Just like He did.

So where's the substitution?

Christ didn't suffer for eternity. Christ didn't suffer in the afterlife. So why would the people who don't believe in Him suffer for eternity in the afterlife?

Don't quote Bible verses at me. I've read that books so many times! I read and watched hundreds of articles and videos on the atonement. It just doesn't make any sense to me. None of the theories do. They all lack something, which makes them irrational within the framework of an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God.

 

[Albion]

Make it make sense.

The general consensus in Christianity is that Christ suffered and died INSTEAD OF those who believe in Him. That means in their place. That means that those people were supposed to suffer physically like He did, and die physically, like He did, but they didn't. He suffered and died instead of them. That's what substitution means. Am I understanding this correctly?

He paid a price, but it's not necessary that it be exacted in precisely the same manner for everyone. Obviously, the penalty for Hebrews who did not keep the Mosaic Law before Christ came was not crucifixion and nothing else. Indeed, we all know that the penalty in that case was to be experienced in the afterlife.

People who believe in Him still suffer and die. Physically. Just like He did.

So where's the substitution?

See the last part of my comment above.

Christ didn't suffer for eternity. Christ didn't suffer in the afterlife. So why would the people who don't believe in Him suffer for eternity in the afterlife?

How do you suppose that Christ suffering in the spirit world would make any impression on anyone in Judea ca. 30AD? Or on later generations, for that matter? We'd only get to read about some cosmic doings involving spirits, I suppose.

Consider how graphic and powerful it is--or isn't--to our minds to read of the great rebellion in heaven by which Satan and innumerable angels were cast out. Now compare that with the imagery we all carry around about Jesus being scourged, crucified on a public scaffold, taunted by his inferiors, etc. etc.

Don't quote Bible verses at me. I've read that books so many times! I read and watched hundreds of articles and videos on the atonement. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

My point exactly!!