Prove that from scripture?

[donadams]

Prove that from scripture please?

why does it need to be proved from scripture?

where does scripture says all the truths revealed by God are found in scripture?

where does is say “scripture alone” is the only authority or rule of faith?

thanks

 

[Albion]

Prove that from scripture please?

why does it need to be proved from scripture?

If "it" needs to be proven, then there is no authority that beats divine revelation.

where does scripture says all the truths revealed by God are found in scripture?

First, there is no reason to think that Scripture reveals all the truths in the universe. It has a purpose and reveals the information that God chose to reveal in order to guide mankind towards salvation. As for the question, the Bible does attest to its origin and reliability in a number of different verses.

For example, there's 2 Timothy 3:16.
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,"

where does is say “scripture alone” is the only authority or rule of faith?

thanks

We can hardly challenge the idea that God's word is reliable, can we? So what other (alleged) source of information can be considered more reliable??

And if anyone thinks he knows of such a source, where is the information about its superior worth to be found?

 

[donadams]

If "it" needs to be proven, then there is no authority that beats divine revelation.

First, there is no reason to think that Scripture reveals all the truths in the universe. It has a purpose and reveals the information that God chose to reveal in order to guide mankind towards salvation. As for the question, the Bible does attest to its origin and reliability in a number of different verses.

For example, there's 2 Timothy 3:16.
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,"

We can hardly challenge the idea that God's word is reliable, can we? So what other (alleged) source of information can be considered more reliable??

And if anyone thinks he knows of such a source, where is the information about its superior worth to be found?

Please stop with the assumptions!
The scriptures are the inspired word of God and the words of Christ are eternal
I never spoke against scripture but against the doctrine of the “Bible alone” as the sole authority

our authority and source of truth and rule of faith is not the “Bible alone” but it is Jesus Christ! Jn 14:6
And His church! 1 Tim 3:15

more to follow

 

[donadams]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

 

[Josiah]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

@donadams
@Lamb


Don,

With all due respect, obviously none of the Scriptures you quote even so much as mention your church - much less authorize, exempt or entrust it with anything. You prove that. We all know how your church alone spins them but you prove it's not what the Scriptures actually state. You are just doing what you then repudiate - quoting Scriptures to make your point. Worse, proving they don't.

Look, everyone here knows the claims that The Catholic Church itself alone makes for it itself alone. Many of us here are former Catholics, we learned all this at least as much as you, some of us have even taught it and tried to defend it. But it is a CLAIM of The Catholic Church for itself, it IS pure circular reasoning.

Now brother, we COULD discuss the claim but clearly, obviously, undeniably, you don't want to. Nor are you open to such. All our attempts to even start that have been either ignored or just brushed aside. And that's okay, that is permitted. But you DO need to ask, what then are you hoping to accomplish? Clearly, we don't agree with you... we are only hearing the old, old "spin" we are all too familiar with.... and noting there's no interest in discussion or conversation. Now, IF you simply want to say "This is what I believe...." or "This is what my church teaches and holds..." that's great (and appreciated) but that does not SEEM to be what you are doing, you SEEM to suggest some debate but one that doesn't welcome discussion or other points of view. You seem just to be stirring up some anti-Catholicism (which we really don't like here at CH).

This is an ecumenical discussion forum. I'm GLAD you are here (and I know so are most of the participants here). I wish we had more Catholics and Orthodox here! It's good to hear your perspective (and of course, I agree with Catholics most of the time). But I think you'll soon find your time here much more profitable to yourself and others if you truly embrace what we are: an ecumenical discussion forum. I want you to get heard.... but if all you do is throw the old unique claims of your church (which we all already know) in the faces of others, well.... not much is going to get accomplished. In my opinion.

But this is (thankfully) a very open forum. Staff here is very lenient, as they should be. You can do pretty much as you desire. It just may not be very helpful to you or the community?

God's richest blessings, my brother.


- Josiah



.

 

[Albion]

The scriptures are the inspired word of God and the words of Christ are eternal
I never spoke against scripture but against the doctrine of the “Bible alone” as the sole authority

our authority and source of truth and rule of faith is not the “Bible alone” but it is Jesus Christ! Jn 14:6
And His church! 1 Tim 3:15

But then it cannot be tradition, the Apostles, the Roman Catholic Church, the Pope or any of that, since you needed the Bible to know about all of them!

I think that the problem here may be that you are not aware that there is some guidance in all sorts of different things, but when it comes to the ultimate religious authority, and the question is essential to the faith, then it is the Bible and the Bible alone.

If a bishop or Pope decides to use English instead of Latin in the Mass or if longstanding custom suggests that there should be sponsors or witnesses when somebody is baptized...those are decisions made for the good of the church but not essential to salvation in the way that, for example, recognizing that Christ was both God and Man (which we've been talking about here on CH lately) is.

 

[tango]

Prove that from scripture please?

why does it need to be proved from scripture?

where does scripture says all the truths revealed by God are found in scripture?

where does is say “scripture alone” is the only authority or rule of faith?

thanks

This is the sort of thing that seems to invite endless circular arguments.

It's clearly true to say there are truths that are not contained in Scripture. When I needed to find what I did with my sealant gun I found Scripture to be utterly useless in helping me find it. Likewise there's not a single verse in Scripture that tells me which local window supplier is the best, or how to improve the gas mileage in my car, or the best chess opening moves and so on. Clearly Scripture is intended to serve a purpose and that purpose has nothing to do with the purpose of modern day recipe books, technical reference manuals or the location of missing tools.

Where something spiritual is concerned it seems that if we accept Scripture as the word of God then it's a pretty good reference point. That's not to say Scripture alone is the authority but if one side can quote Scripture and the other side can quote an opinion then the chances are the side with an opinion is going to struggle. Among the more polite things people say about opinions is that you can take your opinion, add $1.25 and get anything you want from the Dollar Tree.

Without an objective reference point discussions can easily turn into two people arguing over whether a block of cheese weighs a pound or not, with neither side being able or willing to put it on a scale and settle the matter once and for all. And sometimes that's OK - if the buyer and seller can't agree on what is being offered for sale they can walk away and not do the deal. But if we're serious about seeking the truth maybe we do need an external benchmark we can both agree is objective and truthful.

 

[donadams]

@donadams
@Lamb


Don,

With all due respect, obviously none of the Scriptures you quote even so much as mention your church - much less authorize, exempt or entrust it with anything. You prove that. We all know how your church alone spins them but you prove it's not what the Scriptures actually state. You are just doing what you then repudiate - quoting Scriptures to make your point. Worse, proving they don't.

Look, everyone here knows the claims that The Catholic Church itself alone makes for it itself alone. Many of us here are former Catholics, we learned all this at least as much as you, some of us have even taught it and tried to defend it. But it is a CLAIM of The Catholic Church for itself, it IS pure circular reasoning.

Now brother, we COULD discuss the claim but clearly, obviously, undeniably, you don't want to. Nor are you open to such. All our attempts to even start that have been either ignored or just brushed aside. And that's okay, that is permitted. But you DO need to ask, what then are you hoping to accomplish? Clearly, we don't agree with you... we are only hearing the old, old "spin" we are all too familiar with.... and noting there's no interest in discussion or conversation. Now, IF you simply want to say "This is what I believe...." or "This is what my church teaches and holds..." that's great (and appreciated) but that does not SEEM to be what you are doing, you SEEM to suggest some debate but one that doesn't welcome discussion or other points of view. You seem just to be stirring up some anti-Catholicism (which we really don't like here at CH).

This is an ecumenical discussion forum. I'm GLAD you are here (and I know so are most of the participants here). I wish we had more Catholics and Orthodox here! It's good to hear your perspective (and of course, I agree with Catholics most of the time). But I think you'll soon find your time here much more profitable to yourself and others if you truly embrace what we are: an ecumenical discussion forum. I want you to get heard.... but if all you do is throw the old unique claims of your church (which we all already know) in the faces of others, well.... not much is going to get accomplished. In my opinion.

But this is (thankfully) a very open forum. Staff here is very lenient, as they should be. You can do pretty much as you desire. It just may not be very helpful to you or the community?

God's richest blessings, my brother.


- Josiah



.

Thanks
No offense intented not to be faithful to scripture Jude 1:3 contend for the faith

Take a step back, is Jesus Christ the only head of the new covenant church?

 

[donadams]

But then it cannot be tradition, the Apostles, the Roman Catholic Church, the Pope or any of that, since you needed the Bible to know about all of them!

I think that the problem here may be that you are not aware that there is some guidance in all sorts of different things, but when it comes to the ultimate religious authority, and the question is essential to the faith, then it is the Bible and the Bible alone.

If a bishop or Pope decides to use English instead of Latin in the Mass or if longstanding custom suggests that there should be sponsors or witnesses when somebody is baptized...those are decisions made for the good of the church but not essential to salvation in the way that, for example, recognizing that Christ was both God and Man (which we've been talking about here on CH lately) is.

Not Christ alone but Christ and his church!
His church is Christ extended to all time and place!

Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The church is the truth! Matt 18:27 1 tim 3:15
Christ is the light of the world! Jn
The apostles are the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9:4 eph 4:4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Christ established the sacraments as the primary means of grace!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Christ founded the church for the salvation of souls!
Teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation!
Matt 28:19



now the eternal church is God’s kingdom founded by God the perfect spotless bride of Christ prepared by God from heaven!

how can there be something wrong with his bride???

How can Christ divorce his bride and marry another Protesting, church of rebellion???

The church and the truth is from God and is immutable, it cannot be reformed !!!

matt 16:18 shall not prevail
Jn 8:32 you shall know the truth
Jn 16:13 HS leads the apostles into all truth
Matt 18:17 must hear the church
Lk 10:16 hear the apostles
Jn 10:16 one church
Matt 5:14 light of the world
1 Tim 3:15 pillar of truth

 

[Albion]

Take a step back, is Jesus Christ the only head of the new covenant church?

If you are speaking of the "invisible" church, as it has been termed--the assembly of all true believers known only to God. Then yes.

But if you are speaking of the "visible" church, the institution that has congregations of members in cities across the country, admitting new members, celebrating the sacraments, teaching from Scripture, and etc. Then, no.

All of these have mortals as "head" administrators in one form or another, but which also acknowledge Christ as the ultimate head of the church in the first sense of the term.

 

[donadams]

This is the sort of thing that seems to invite endless circular arguments.

It's clearly true to say there are truths that are not contained in Scripture. When I needed to find what I did with my sealant gun I found Scripture to be utterly useless in helping me find it. Likewise there's not a single verse in Scripture that tells me which local window supplier is the best, or how to improve the gas mileage in my car, or the best chess opening moves and so on. Clearly Scripture is intended to serve a purpose and that purpose has nothing to do with the purpose of modern day recipe books, technical reference manuals or the location of missing tools.

Where something spiritual is concerned it seems that if we accept Scripture as the word of God then it's a pretty good reference point. That's not to say Scripture alone is the authority but if one side can quote Scripture and the other side can quote an opinion then the chances are the side with an opinion is going to struggle. Among the more polite things people say about opinions is that you can take your opinion, add $1.25 and get anything you want from the Dollar Tree.

Without an objective reference point discussions can easily turn into two people arguing over whether a block of cheese weighs a pound or not, with neither side being able or willing to put it on a scale and settle the matter once and for all. And sometimes that's OK - if the buyer and seller can't agree on what is being offered for sale they can walk away and not do the deal. But if we're serious about seeking the truth maybe we do need an external benchmark we can both agree is objective and truthful.

Yes Jesus Christ and his church!
Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32

you ears to hear but don’t hear

you need apostles to hear christ
Lk 10:16
Matt 18:17 hear the church

Christ is the light of the world! Jn 8
Apostles are light of the world Matt 5:14
Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
Church pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:15

scripture yes but “scripture alone” no
And what the church declares to be scripture not the English Bible society

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

where is it written???

thanks

 

[Albion]

Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The church is the truth! Matt 18:27 1 tim 3:15
Christ is the light of the world! Jn
The apostles are the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Almost every Christian denomination agrees to that, so you have made no progress with it towards showing that your personal choice of denomination is the one and only.

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9:4 eph 4:4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Aside from claiming seven sacraments--the two sacraments of the Gospel and five that at a later time a few denominations added--you have described there certain principles that almost all denominations agree on.

Christ established the sacraments as the primary means of grace!

Sure. And that doesn't narrow down the list of possible "one, true" churches" very much. Almost all Christian denominations celebrate the sacraments and there are a few that think there are seven of them.

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Christ founded the church for the salvation of souls!
Teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation!
Matt 28:19

Again, you're not separating the denominations much at all with that standard.

now the eternal church is God’s kingdom founded by God the perfect spotless bride of Christ prepared by God from heaven!

how can there be something wrong with his bride???

How can Christ divorce his bride and marry another Protesting, church of rebellion???

If the bride goes astray, we may expect that the Holy Spirit will do something to correct the situation. There is little doubt that the Roman Catholic Church went astray in various ways that needed reform. Indeed, the RCC had to reform itself many times in history. But in the 16th century, it was so weakened by social and political developments that it was unwilling to consider even modest calls for reform for fear of looking even weaker.

Then too, when the splits did come, they came from the Roman Catholic Church breaking apart, so she has had larger and more significant schisms and fractures than any other denomination!!

If "rebellion" is your best argument, look at your own church's history and you will find the #1 offender! Indeed, for several decades, there were THREE Popes claiming to head the same church (yours), each with their own staff, clergy, parishes, and so on.

The church and the truth is from God and is immutable, it cannot be reformed !!!

matt 16:18 shall not prevail
Jn 8:32 you shall know the truth
Jn 16:13 HS leads the apostles into all truth
Matt 18:17 must hear the church
Lk 10:16 hear the apostles
Jn 10:16 one church
Matt 5:14 light of the world
1 Tim 3:15 pillar of truth

So here's the "bottom line" to what you've written here--

Most of the verses and other statements can apply to just about any Christian denomination or to all of them simultaneously. Therefore, most of that proves nothing about the Church of Rome being the uniquely valid church of Christ.

But at the same time, your main focus (and probably only real one) was the idea that your denomination was "the original one." That claim, however, is false.

The Eastern Orthodox churches are older and have changed much less over the centuries than your own denomination has. And there are several smaller churches founded by Apostles that can say the same.

This means that your only possible argument doesn't hold up either.

 

[donadams]

Rebellion and Heresy is the fruit of pride.
Humility is truth, pride is error, and falsehood.
Faithfulness and obedience are the fruit of humility.

The truth will set you free, so false doctrine enslaves you in spiritual bondage and spiritual blindness
Jn 8:32

Example: Saul in his pride thought he was acting righteously and doing the will of God with true and correct faith but when the blinding light of Christ appeared he recognized how deep was his bondage and spiritual blindness!

 

[donadams]

Sacramental life of the Christian church: I come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Jn 10:10 Jn 1:16-17

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 8:36
1 Corinthians 12:13 2 pet 1:11
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The ark of salvation: one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!

 

[Albion]

Rebellion and Heresy is the fruit of pride.
Humility is truth, pride is error, and falsehood.
Faithfulness and obedience are the fruit of humility.

I believe that you've written this same thing several times before and it proves nothing about which denomination, if any, is better than any other.

And by the way, what could be more prideful than a church claiming that it has a right to own and govern an actual country? That is the claim made for itself by one (and only one that I can think of), the Roman Catholic Church.

When its kingdom in central Italy was taken by the new state of Italy, the Popes went into a huff that lasted for half a century until one of them struck a deal with Benito Mussolini to get a "nation" back, albeit a small one. That's Vatican City, a sovereign country ruled by the Pope as head of state. And that's to say nothing of the vast array of art treasures, the Vatican Bank, and other opulent adornments that this church enjoys which find a parallel in no other Christian denomination.

That having been said, I really do think that it would be interesting if you were to attempt a serious effort to show that any denomination is more valid than any other--and show it to be so with actual facts.

 

[donadams]

I believe that you've written this same thing several times before and it proves nothing about which denomination, if any, is better than any other.

That having been said, I really do think that it would be interesting if you were to attempt a serious effort to show that any denomination is more valid than any other--and show it to be so with actual facts.

Scripture has no denominations
Only Christ and his church

 

[Albion]

Scripture has no denominations

We know that. However, you are here trying to prove--from Scripture--that your own denomination is the only valid denomination.

I have pointed out that the true church of Christ is what is called the "invisible" church, the one that all true believers are part of regardless of age, living or dead, or denominational affiliation. YOU are the one trying to show that a one particular denomination defines Christ's church to the exclusion of all other Christians.

 

[donadams]

We know that. However, you are here trying to prove--from Scripture--that your own denomination is the only valid denomination.

I have pointed out that the true church of Christ is what is called the "invisible" church, the one that all true believers are part of regardless of age, living or dead, or denominational affiliation. YOU are the one trying to show that a one particular denomination defines Christ's church to the exclusion of all other Christians.

There is only one covenant

there is a a no verse for n scripture that says: the church is only the spiritual union of believers
Thanks

 

[Albion]

There is only one covenant

What are you trying to say? Maybe it would help if we started to use the same language AND if points made on either side of the discussion were answered rather than a phrase that has been used many times before be posted in reply without further explanation.

What you are trying to show us is that your own church/denomination is the original one and the only one that Christ had in mind. However, you have done next to nothing to show any reason for believing that to be so!

Phrases like "one covenant" and "only Christ and his church" don't do anything to distinguish one church body from another. You want to think that they refer to your own denomination, but the members of various other churches could just as easily claim that they refer to their denominations instead.

Where's something from you that actually points to the Catholic Church as distinct from all other ones??

Thanks

Only the spiritual union of believers? No, what I said was that there is what is called the "invisible" church, but there is also what is the "visible" church, i.e. the local institution that conducts worship services, has pastors, observes the sacraments, instructs the people and so on.

 

[donadams]

How can there be more than one?
One God!
One Lord!
One savior!
One true religion!
One new covenant!
One kingdom!
One household of faith!
One vineyard!
One church! (Not thousands of sects All teaching different doctrines all on the Bible alone, tradition of men)
Only Christ has authority to found the new covenant church! Matt 16:18-19
One shepherd one fold Jn 10:16
1 Tim 3:15 pillar and ground of truth!