Limited Atonement folks can't say God Loves You

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,649
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Limited Atonement believers don't believe in a God who loves everyone, just the few for whom they say He died for. So, they can't even tell their own children that God loves them, because they don't know if He truly died for them. What a sad theology.
 

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
Limited Atonement believers don't believe in a God who loves everyone, just the few for whom they say He died for. So, they can't even tell their own children that God loves them, because they don't know if He truly died for them. What a sad theology.
God hates the wicked. So it is a lie to say otherwise. It's honest to say God set his love on some of those whom he hates to glorify his Holy Attributes in saving them.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,760
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
God hates the wicked. So it is a lie to say otherwise. It's honest to say God set his love on some of those whom he hates to glorify his Holy Attributes in saving them.
You're going in circles with God hates the wicked but he actually loves the wicked. 🙄
 

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
You're going in circles with God hates the wicked but he actually loves the wicked. 🙄
Scripture does not say this.

“The LORD trieth the righteous: But the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.” Psalm 11:5 (KJV 1900)
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,760
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
I know that, but you did.
Think about this. If God loved you, you share in his glory. If he hated you, as scripture says many times. He shares his glory with no one. Don't rob God of his glory making people into something they are not.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Limited Atonement believers don't believe in a God who loves everyone, just the few for whom they say He died for. So, they can't even tell their own children that God loves them, because they don't know if He truly died for them. What a sad theology.


Correct.

IF the Bible and Christianity are wrong and Jesus died ONLY or some few.... and since the Bible nowhere lists the names of the lucky few... there is no way to know who are these lucky few and who are among the great majority whom God does not love, whom God offers no forgiveness, for whom the Gospel does not apply, whom God created because he feels glorified by them frying eternally in hell.

So, the Gospel cannot be preached or taught UNLESS one has proof that the one hearing has been saved. Otherwise, they are likely lying to them - worse, holding out a glorious Gospel to them that God won't give them. To offer them a gift (the most wonderful gift possible) that is not for them is a horrible, terrible, cruel thing! To tell them God loves them when He very likely does not, to say Christ died for them when He probably didn't, to proclaim John 3:16 to them when likely the opposite is true in their case. It's most likely that God gave them life solely because He feels gloried by watching them fry eternally in hell. Would it not be FAR, FAR more loving and kind to tell them nothing (since there's no way to know if it applies to them anyway) than to tell them the greatest, most wonderful gospel - and then that it likely doesn't at all apply to them? This is more than lying, more than dishonest. It is cruel... the greatest cruelty imaginable.




.
 

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
Correct.

IF the Bible and Christianity are wrong and Jesus died ONLY or some few.... and since the Bible nowhere lists the names of the lucky few... there is no way to know who are these lucky few and who are among the great majority whom God does not love, whom God offers no forgiveness, for whom the Gospel does not apply, whom God created because he feels glorified by them frying eternally in hell.

So, the Gospel cannot be preached or taught UNLESS one has proof that the one hearing has been saved. Otherwise, they are lying to them - worse, holding out a glorious Gospel to them that God won't give them. There could not be a more horrible, terrible thing! To tell them God loves them when He very likely does not, to say Christ died for them when He probably didn't, to proclaim John 3:16 to them when likely the opposite is true in their case. It's most likely that God gave them life solely because He feels gloried by watching them fry eternally in hell. Would it not be FAR, FAR more loving and kind to tell them nothing (since there's no way to know if it applies to them anyway) than to tell them the greatest, most wonderful gospel - and then that it likely doesn't at all apply to them? This is more than lying, more than dishonest. It is cruel... the greatest cruelty imaginable.




.
The reason God created is to reveal His glory. Sin reveals His holy attributes. Damning the wicked shows the created order his Justice, Wrath for sin, righteousness, and sovereignty in election. The damned reveals His mercy in salvation, justice in Christ paying for sins. Sovereignty in electing some to salvation. Mercy in salvation, and so on.

You destroy the entire purpose that scripture reveals to be God's reason for creating everything.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,760
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The reason God created is to reveal His glory.
So much for what God revealed to us in John 3:16, then, huh? ;)

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
 

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
So much for what God revealed to us in John 3:16, then, huh? ;)

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
He hates sinners. The world = kosmos, = the created order. He loved the world when he killed all but Noah and his fam, saving it for the New Heavens and Earth.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,760
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
He hates sinners. The world = kosmos, = the created order. He loved the world when he killed all but Noah and his fam, saving it for the New Heavens and Earth.
I'll stick with the word of God on this one, Dave.

You can work out your definitions of the world and kosmos and how it is that God didn't mean what the Bible teaches, etc.
 

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
I'll stick with the word of God on this one, Dave.

You can work out your definitions of the world and kosmos and how he didn't mean what the Bible teaches, etc.
Prove it by using scripture.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,760
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I'll stick with the word of God on this one, Dave.

You can work out your definitions of the world and kosmos and how it is that God didn't mean what the Bible teaches, etc.


Not only does Dave repudiate faith but also grace. Neither are acceptable to him.



.
 

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
Not only does Dave repudiate faith but also grace. Neither are acceptable to him.



.
I've said many times, Faith precedes any act of the will. It comes from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If you must choose to have faith, it is because you don't have it. You must try to create a knock-off version using the sinful flesh.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Prove it by using scripture.


Here are just some of the verses that state Jesus died "For all" "for everyone" "the whole world."


2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought THEM (false prophets who deny Him), and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


Here are the verses that state Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for some few...

Cricklets....



@1689Dave, you have been given HUNDREDS of opportunities to quote the Scripture(s) that state that Jesus died ONLY for ___________ but you've never done so. And we all (including you) know why: God never said what you do, He stated the opposite.




.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,760
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I've said many times, Faith precedes any act of the will.
You also said, many times, that you believe Faith is nothing more than a trait that characterizes the Elect, just something incidental. Yes, you explained to us that if a person has been guaranteed heaven by a decree of God making him one of the Elect, he will necessarily believe there's a God, yada yada yada, but that's all there is to "faith."
 

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
Here are just some of the verses that state Jesus died "For all" "for everyone" "the whole world."


2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought THEM (false prophets who deny Him), and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


Here are the verses that state Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for some few...

Cricklets....



@1689Dave, you have been given HUNDREDS of opportunities to quote the Scripture(s) that state that Jesus died ONLY for ___________ but you've never done so. And we all (including you) know why you've not quoted any. You demand that we prove Jesus died for all by quoting Scripture but you won't do the same for your horrible new invention. And you know why. We all do. So, since you have not one Scripture that states your disgusting view, you instead keep quoting Scriptures that do not state your view (because that's all you have, Scriptures that don't state your horrible invention).




.


.
How is this not stacking the deck? Sheep & Goats are present at the end of the world. Jesus said he died for his sheep, excluding the goats. How can you honestly say he died for the goats?
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Jesus said he died for his sheep


Yup. No one disputes that.


1689Dave said:
Jesus said he died for his sheep, excluding the goats


Wrong. YOU YOURSELF have proven - over and and over again - that Jesus never stated that He did not die for the goats. You are simply not telling the truth, you yourself have proven so.

There is no verse that states, "Jesus did not die for _____________." There is no verse that states, "Jesus died ONLY for _______________." I know that. You know that. There are many that state He died for all.




Here are just some of the verses that state Jesus died "For all" "for everyone" "the whole world."


2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought THEM (false prophets who deny Him), and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


Here are the verses that state Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for some few...

Cricklets....




.





"
 
Top Bottom