Why didn't Jesus die for the other thief?

[Stravinsk]

If it were actually easy, we wouldn't have people making it a point to come onto Christian forums in order to expose Christianity as a fraud.

They would either take the path you consider easy and join the faith...or else they would think of the whole thing the way we think of Scientology or Mormonism and not make campaigning against it some sort of personal crusade.

I'm perceiving a veiled accusation here. If that's correct, I've actually been coming to Christian based forums for around 20 years, most of that time as a Christian.

In any case, the repentant thief story and Christ's proclamation has issues, as I highlighted in the parts of the post you didn't bother to address or quote.

 

[Stravinsk]

I'm sure (figure of speech) that you've seen one of the explanations for that.

The only explanation I've heard that might seem plausible on the surface is this:

"I tell you the truth Today, you shall be with me in paradise" ...as opposed to....
"I tell you the truth, Today you shall be with me in paradise"

The missing punctuation making the difference. The problem with this apologetic is that it would make it unique and stand out in how Christ used language.

In any case, I've never heard a pastor use the first tense, only the second.

 

[1689Dave]

Ah, so when Luther's beliefs don't match up with yours then he's evil, but if he agrees with you then you'll quote him nonstop. haha got it.

Look at History. The Protestants were mass murderers along with the Catholics. I can prove they were. Can you prove they were not?

In Catholic countries the Anabaptists, as a rule, were executed by burning at the stake; in Lutheran and Zwinglian states, Anabaptists were generally executed by beheading or drowning. Mennonites in Europe Horsch.

 

[Lamb]

Look at History. The Protestants were mass murderers along with the Catholics. I can prove they were. Can you prove they were not?

In Catholic countries the Anabaptists, as a rule, were executed by burning at the stake; in Lutheran and Zwinglian states, Anabaptists were generally executed by beheading or drowning. Mennonites in Europe Horsch.

What does that have to do with the topic?

 

[1689Dave]

What does that have to do with the topic?

Nothing. I replied to your criticism of Luther's double standards. Just being courteous.

 

[Lamb]

Nothing. I replied to your criticism of Luther's double standards. Just being courteous.

Um. Okay. Maybe just get back to the topic then?

 

[1689Dave]

Paul teaches that God created the universe and every creature to illustrate his multifaceted wisdom. By way of the Church. And the crucifixion serves this purpose. In the saved thief we see his mercy, his love, his justice, his sovereignty, and more of his attributes as we meditate on this Ephesians 3:10.

In the damned thief, we see his wrath, judgment, sovereignty, hatred of sin and sinners, justice, and righteousness.

So this was a vivid illustration provided for the created order to know God through His attributes.

Paul also teaches this in Romans 9.

“For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.” Romans 9:15–16 (KJV 1900)

“Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Romans 9:18 (KJV 1900)

 

[Josiah]

I'm still waiting for the Scripture that states that Jesus did not die for both thieves but ONLY for one of them.

Dave stated this in the opening post.... we're suppose to discuss the why He ONLY died for one of them... but here too we find him offering NOTHING WHATSOEVER to support his amazing assumption. Without the proof that Jesus ONLY died for ONE of them, it is impossible to respond in this thread.

But then I've never found that Dave is ever interested in discussion. Or truth.



.


.

 

[1689Dave]

I'm still waiting for the Scripture that states that Jesus did not die for both thieves but ONLY for one of them.

Dave stated this in the opening post.... we're suppose to discuss the why He ONLY died for one of them... but here too we find him offering NOTHING WHATSOEVER to support his amazing assumption. Without the proof that Jesus ONLY died for ONE of them, it is impossible to respond in this thread.

But then I've never found that Dave is ever interested in discussion. Or truth.



.


.

This shows people what your teaching is made of. Nobody can come against the truth with emotion.

 

[Josiah]

This shows

... you have not one Scripture that says what you do on this.

Not that you care.




.

 

[1689Dave]

... you have not one Scripture that says what you do on this.

Not that you care.




.

All of the scripture affirms it. The Pelagianism of universal atonement cannot save a soul.

 

[Josiah]

All of the scripture affirms it.

... it's just that you can't find even one Scripture that does.

We're waiting for the Scripture that states what you do, "Jesus died for ONE of the thieves dying with Him but NOT for the other." When you find and quote that Scripture, then you can say "One Scripture affirms it." But right now you are simply lying with you say "All Scripture affirms it." The truthful claim would be "no Scripture affirms it."

But then I don't think truth or Scripture matters to you.



.

 

[1689Dave]

... it's just that you can't find even one Scripture that does.

We're waiting for the Scripture that states what you do, "Jesus died for ONE of the thieves dying with Him but NOT for the other." When you find and quote that Scripture, then you can say "One Scripture affirms it." But right now you are simply lying with you say "All Scripture affirms it." The truthful claim would be "no Scripture affirms it."

But then I don't think truth or Scripture matters to you.



.

Before anyone can tackle this situation, they need to grasp the big picture. This includes the purpose of creation. If anyone can grasp this, they will see why universal atonement doesn't fit with the rest of the scripture.

 

[Josiah]

Before anyone can tackle this situation, they need to grasp the big picture. This includes the purpose of creation. If anyone can grasp this, they will see why universal atonement doesn't fit with the rest of the scripture.

Before anyone can discuss this topic, you need to prove that Jesus died for ONE of the thieves but ONLY for that one. Quote the Scripture that states that.

Not that truth or Scripture seems to matter to you.



.

 

[1689Dave]

Before anyone can discuss this topic, you need to prove that Jesus died for ONE of the thieves but ONLY for that one. Quote the Scripture that states that.

Not that truth or Scripture seems to matter to you.



.

Universal atonement contradicts most of the bible. It especially doesn't fit with the reason God created the universe.

 

[Josiah]

Universal

You just evade your claim that Jesus died for ONLY ONE of the thieves dying with Him. You prove you have not one Scripture that states that.

Not that you care about truth or Scripture.



.

 

[1689Dave]

You just evade your claim that Jesus died for ONLY ONE of the thieves dying with Him. You prove you have not one Scripture that states that.

Not that you care about truth or Scripture.



.

Jesus limits the atonement in Jn 10. Election also limits the atonement. Jesus did not pray for the world's salvation. But only the salvation of those God gave to him.

 

[Josiah]

Jesus

All you CAN do is evade your claim. You claimed that Jesus died for ONE and ONLY ONE of the two thieves dying with Jesus. "All Scripture affirms this" you stated. But you can't find even one Scripture that states this. Everyone knows this.

Not that you give a rip.
You just don't care about truth or Scripture.



.

 

[1689Dave]

All you CAN do is evade your claim. You claimed that Jesus died for ONE and ONLY ONE of the two thieves dying with Jesus. "All Scripture affirms this" you stated. But you can't find even one Scripture that states this. Everyone knows this.

Not that you give a rip.
You just don't care about truth or Scripture.



.

To teach universal atonement a person needs to convert to Pelagianism.

 

[Albion]

All you CAN do is evade your claim. You claimed that Jesus died for ONE and ONLY ONE of the two thieves dying with Jesus. "All Scripture affirms this" you stated. But you can't find even one Scripture that states this. Everyone knows this.

That's true. There is nothing whatsoever in Scripture--or, for that matter, in logic--which supports the idea that Jesus's sacrifice excluded the other thief.

So, we should file that nonsense with the other nonsense posted about orthodox Christianity actually being Pelagianism, and the Trinity being a reference to something that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost possess rather than being a term that describes the NATURE of the one God of the Bible.

There is no reason to spend all this time rebutting non-Christian theories only to have a troll repeat the incorrect information so that he can have the last word and annoy Christians in the process.