Jesus born at thy birth

[Lamb]

I was listening to Silent Night yesterday, and the line "Jesus born at thy birth" sounded so strange to me. Why do you think it's phrased as it is?

 

[1689Dave]

I was listening to Silent Night yesterday, and the line "Jesus born at thy birth" sounded so strange to me. Why do you think it's phrased as it is?

Silent night, holy night!
Son of God love's pure light.
Radiant beams from Thy holy face
With dawn of redeeming grace,
Jesus Lord, at Thy birth
Jesus Lord, at Thy birth

 

[Lamb]

Silent night, holy night!
Son of God love's pure light.
Radiant beams from Thy holy face
With dawn of redeeming grace,
Jesus Lord, at Thy birth
Jesus Lord, at Thy birth

Thank you!! I must have really not heard that version very well because I could have sworn they were singing Jesus born at thy birth!!

 

[tango]

I was listening to Silent Night yesterday, and the line "Jesus born at thy birth" sounded so strange to me. Why do you think it's phrased as it is?

Most people are born at their birth. I think the actual line is "Jesus, Lord, at thy birth".

 

[Lamb]

Most people are born at their birth. I think the actual line is "Jesus, Lord, at thy birth".

That is the line...but what I thought I heard in the version yesterday on Sirius XM Radio was born at thy birth. I guess my hearing is going because I even tried Googling it to see what they meant and there are no results. The hearing is the first to go? LOL

 

[Albion]

It could be that the version did say what you thought you heard, but I doubt it and cannot find any example of it online, so maybe it was just one of those things that tricks the ear.

It reminds me of that other line from Silent Night that has been rendered "Round John Virgin, mother and child."

(And who IS this Round John Virgin guy, anyway? Another Friar Tuck?)

 

[1689Dave]

It could be that the version did say what you thought you heard, but I doubt it and cannot find any example of it online, so maybe it was just one of those things that tricks the ear.

It reminds me of that other line from Silent Night that has been rendered "Round John Virgin, mother and child."

(And who IS this Round John Virgin guy, anyway? Another Friar Tuck?)

If you think about it, Jesus Lord = Jesus God (the trinity) at birth. “Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I: And now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.” (Isaiah 48:16) (KJV 1900)

Something more serious than life itself is: Nobody can say Jesus is The Lord (YHWH, The eternal Trinity) but by the Holy Ghost. One poor soul, trying to make sense of it, took the One substance of God, divided it into 3 pieces, and ended up with 3 Gods. I assume so he could have the Son only living in the Body of Christ. And the Father in heaven, and the Holy Ghost elsewhere. Not knowing God is indivisible and everywhere present. His church would have burnt him at the stake, back in the day, for saying this.

 

[Lamb]

Just wait until you all hear my version of Feliz Navidad

 

[1689Dave]

Jesus Lord, at Thy birth. Did the Son of God become the Son at His birth? Or was He always the Son of God?

 

[Lamb]

Jesus Lord, at Thy birth. Did the Son of God become the Son at His birth? Or was He always the Son of God?

Here is something you should read:

"It is furthermore necessary for eternal salvation truly to believe that our Lord Jesus Christ also took on human flesh. Now this is the true Christian faith: We believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God and man. He is God, eternally begotten from the nature of the Father, and he is man, born in time from the nature of his mother, fully God, fully man, with rational soul and human flesh, equal to the Father as to his deity, less than the Father as to his humanity; and though he is both God and Man, Christ is not two persons but one, one, not by changing the deity into flesh, but by taking the humanity into God; one, indeed, not by mixture of the natures, but by unity in one person; for just as the rational soul and flesh are one human being, so God and man are one Christ."

 

[1689Dave]

Here is something you should read:

"It is furthermore necessary for eternal salvation truly to believe that our Lord Jesus Christ also took on human flesh. Now this is the true Christian faith: We believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God and man. He is God, eternally begotten from the nature of the Father, and he is man, born in time from the nature of his mother, fully God, fully man, with rational soul and human flesh, equal to the Father as to his deity, less than the Father as to his humanity; and though he is both God and Man, Christ is not two persons but one, one, not by changing the deity into flesh, but by taking the humanity into God; one, indeed, not by mixture of the natures, but by unity in one person; for just as the rational soul and flesh are one human being, so God and man are one Christ."

True, but when did he become the Son? at birth? or he always was the Son.

 

[Lamb]

True, but when did he become the Son? at birth? or he always was the Son.

This will help:
"For each person—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—is distinct, but the deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory and coeternal in majesty. What the Father is, so is the Son, and so is the Holy Spirit. The Father is uncreated, the Son uncreated, the Holy Spirit uncreated; the Father is infinite, the Son infinite, the Holy Spirit infinite; the Father is eternal, the Son eternal, the Holy Spirit eternal; yet they are not three who are eternal, but there is one who is eternal, just as they are not three who are uncreated, nor three who are infinite, but there is one who is uncreated and one who is infinite. In the same way the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, and the Holy Spirit is almighty; yet they are not three who are almighty, but there is one who is almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God; yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, the Holy Spirit is Lord; yet they are not three Lords, but one Lord. For just as Christian truth compels us to confess each person individually to be God and Lord, so the true Christian faith forbids us to speak of three Gods or three Lords. The Father is neither made nor created nor begotten of anyone. The Son is neither made nor created, but is begotten of the Father alone. The Holy Spirit is neither made nor created nor begotten, but proceeds from the Father and the Son. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits. And within this Trinity none comes before or after; none is greater or inferior, but all three persons are coequal and coeternal, so that in every way, as stated before, all three persons are to be worshiped as one God and one God worshiped as three persons."

 

[1689Dave]

This will help:
"For each person—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—is distinct, but the deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory and coeternal in majesty. What the Father is, so is the Son, and so is the Holy Spirit. The Father is uncreated, the Son uncreated, the Holy Spirit uncreated; the Father is infinite, the Son infinite, the Holy Spirit infinite; the Father is eternal, the Son eternal, the Holy Spirit eternal; yet they are not three who are eternal, but there is one who is eternal, just as they are not three who are uncreated, nor three who are infinite, but there is one who is uncreated and one who is infinite. In the same way the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, and the Holy Spirit is almighty; yet they are not three who are almighty, but there is one who is almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God; yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, the Holy Spirit is Lord; yet they are not three Lords, but one Lord. For just as Christian truth compels us to confess each person individually to be God and Lord, so the true Christian faith forbids us to speak of three Gods or three Lords. The Father is neither made nor created nor begotten of anyone. The Son is neither made nor created, but is begotten of the Father alone. The Holy Spirit is neither made nor created nor begotten, but proceeds from the Father and the Son. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits. And within this Trinity none comes before or after; none is greater or inferior, but all three persons are coequal and coeternal, so that in every way, as stated before, all three persons are to be worshiped as one God and one God worshiped as three persons."

How about your saying uncreated meaning "unbegotten"? You are in over your head on this one.


But you are dodging my question. When did the Son become the Son? At birth? Or he always was the Son?

 

[Lamb]

How about your saying uncreated meaning "unbegotten"? You are in over your head on this one.


But you are dodging my question. When did the Son become the Son? At birth? Or he always was the Son?

I was quoting the Athanasian Creed. You've probably read it before?

Let me see first what YOU mean by Son since you don't like the way that I answered you in the first place. Are you asking about Christ's two natures?

 

[1689Dave]

I was quoting the Athanasian Creed. You've probably read it before?

Let me see first what YOU mean by Son since you don't like the way that I answered you in the first place. Are you asking about Christ's two natures?

Two versions of the Trinity exist. One says the Son became such at birth. The other says He always was the Son.

An honest answer will do.

 

[Lamb]

Two versions of the Trinity exist. One says the Son became such at birth. The other says He always was the Son.

An honest answer will do.

Please tell me what you're asking when you refer to Son? I already gave you the answer from the Athanasian Creed and that is sufficient for someone who believes in the Trinity.

 

[1689Dave]

Please tell me what you're asking when you refer to Son? I already gave you the answer from the Athanasian Creed and that is sufficient for someone who believes in the Trinity.

It would show a lot about your knowledge of the Trinity or lack thereof. A simple answer will do. If you need to look it up, it might help your understanding.

 

[Lamb]

It would show a lot about your knowledge of the Trinity or lack thereof. A simple answer will do. If you need to look it up, it might help your understanding.

I'm very careful with wording which is why I quoted the creed.

Now, if you could tell me what you mean by Son in the way you worded your question, then that would be helpful? I'm having a feeling it has to do with the two natures of Christ that would be your answer.

 

[1689Dave]

I'm very careful with wording which is why I quoted the creed.

Now, if you could tell me what you mean by Son in the way you worded your question, then that would be helpful? I'm having a feeling it has to do with the two natures of Christ that would be your answer.

Son = second person of the Trinity also called the Word of God.

 

[Lamb]

Son = second person of the Trinity also called the Word of God.

That's in the quote.