What about the Sermon on the Mount? John says you don't have God without it.

[1689Dave]

How is this not salvation by works? The easy answer is that Jesus bases the Sermon on love. So if you are saved, you have a heart of love the Sermon flows from your actions as a natural part of your being. In fact, it is the basis for New Testament ethics that Paul quotes from frequently. Paul says: “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” Romans 8:9 (KJV 1900)

So all Christians have the Spirit and the Sermon on the Mount comes from the love produced in us by the Holy Spirit.

Why would John say without the Sermon on the Mount we do not have God? Because: “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” (2 John 9)

“And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings [the Sermon], the people were astonished at his doctrine:” (Matthew 7:28)

Sermon on the Mount Doctrine of Christ

 

[MoreCoffee]

Is this thread a bible study or a doctrine presentation?

 

[1689Dave]

Is this thread a bible study or a doctrine presentation?

You decide. You cannot be saved without it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

With men it is impossible, but with God nothing is impossible.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
• Matt 7:24-27 . . Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts
them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came
down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did
not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.

. . . But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into
practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the
streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a
great crash."

Well; the beatitudes alone, in Matthew's 5th chapter, are enough to keep most folks
out of Heaven.

Now, the thing is: if folks are poor at complying with the Sermon On The Mount in
this life, then they likely won't do any better in the next-- and the next life is the
one that matters most because it's permanent whereas this life is only temporary.
So the challenge is to somehow transfer losers from this life into the next life fully
willing, fully capable, and fully successful at complying with the Sermon On The
Mount.

FAQ: If God has forgiven people's sins from first to last, plus even the sins they
have yet to commit: isn't that enough to get them into Heaven?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: Why not?

REPLY: Because forgiven sinners are still sinners; and just as people have failed to
fully comply with the Sermon On The Mount in this life; they will continue to fail in
the next.

• Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then
may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
_

 

[Albion]

FAQ: If God has forgiven people's sins from first to last, plus even the sins they
have yet to commit: isn't that enough to get them into Heaven?

REPLY: No.

Of course it is. Otherwise, no one would get to heaven, Atonement or no Atonement!

FAQ: Why not?

REPLY: Because forgiven sinners are still sinners; and just as people have failed to
fully comply with the Sermon On The Mount in this life; they will continue to fail in
the next.

First, you have no basis on which to say that they will continue to fail in the next (life). None.

Second, the Sermon on the Mount is Christ teaching and exhorting his listeners. Regardless of what speculation comes our way from some unknown person online, you have no reason to think that failing to "comply" perfectly and at all times with the Sermon on the Mount means that you will be lost eternally.

If that were how things work, no one would be saved because we already had real commands--the Decalogue--to guide us; and it's because obeying them perfectly and for a lifetime was impossible that those people (and we) needed a Savior!

 

[Odë:hgöd]

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those people (and we) needed a Savior!

Wouldn't you rather be the kind of person that doesn't need a savior?
_

 

[Albion]

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Wouldn't you rather be the kind of person that doesn't need a savior?
_

You're asking a hypothetical question, in as much as every human since (and including) Adam has needed a Savior.

Anyway, you ask if I wouldn't rather be the kind of person who doesn't need a savior, and sure, I suppose that I would...if that were possible. It's sort of like asking if I wouldn't RATHER think of Los Angeles and magically be transported there instead of having to endure all those regulations and inconveniences experienced at the airport if one is taking a plane instead. I can't do it, but I might choose that course if it only were possible.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.

Anyway, you ask if I wouldn't rather be the kind of person who doesn't need a
savior, and sure, I suppose that I would...if that were possible.

Jesus didn't need a savior. Supposing you were offered an opportunity to start all
over and be made like him next time instead of made like you?
_

 

[Albion]

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Jesus didn't need a savior.

So...the Savior didn't need a savior himself for the reason that he was God.

Got it.

Not exactly what you asked about, though, was it?

Supposing you were offered an opportunity to start all
over and be made like him next time instead of made like you?
_

Who's going to be in the position of being able to do what only God can do (and able to offer that opportunity) when I'm God myself according to your question?

 

[Odë:hgöd]

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So...the Savior didn't need a savior himself for the reason that he was God.

Jesus is a plurality. He's not only a divine spirit being, but also a fully functioning
human being, i.e. both kinds of beings simultaneously.

From what I gather, God has a workable scheme for starting folks all over again
and next time crafting them into a human being like Jesus; which is a tremendous
advantage because in Jesus' sinless human condition, their free will would always
be compatible with God's free will, viz: they can be 100% suitable for life in Heaven
and never at risk of eviction for non compliance with God's ways.

"I am the resurrection." (John 11:25)

For example:

• John 4:34 . . My food, said Jesus, is to do the will of him who sent me

• John 8:29 . . I do always those things that please Him.

• John 10:30 . . I and my Father are unified.

• John 14:31 . . That the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave
me commandment, even so I do.
_

 

[Albion]

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Jesus is a plurality. He's not only a divine spirit being, but also a fully functioning
human being, i.e. both kinds of beings simultaneously.

"A plurality" is incorrect. Rather, Jesus was fully human and fully divine, simultaneously and inseparably.

Are you suggesting that although he was God, his human nature needed forgiveness? If so, the Church of history addressed the issue and held that God cannot co-exist with sin, and since Jesus was one being, albeit with two complete natures, what you are asking about is impossible.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
Although Christ was, in his day, a normal man; he didn't have a normal
man's nature. He had a divine man's nature. Well; the good news is: God
has made it possible for everybody to have a divine man's nature.

• 2Pet 1:2-4 . . Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the
knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has given us
everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who
called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these He has given us his
very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate
in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil
desires.

We can see for ourselves just how successful the divine nature was in
keeping Jesus sinless and in total compliance with God, viz: he serves as an
excellent example of what it's capable of doing for us also.

It used to be said: American Express; don't leave home without it.

Well; I propose another: The divine nature: don't leave this life without it.
_

 

[Albion]

.
Although Christ was, in his day, a normal man; he didn't have a normal
man's nature.

Yes, he did. Christian doctrine holds that he had a complete, 100%, human nature. But if you meant to say that he was not a typical man (for being an exceptional person) that would be correct, but that's a different matter and probably not what you are saying, considering what follows.

He had a divine man's nature. Well; the good news is: God

Yes, he had a divine nature. So, he had a complete human nature and he also had a complete divine nature, both at the same time and never alternated or anything like that.

has made it possible for everybody to have a divine man's nature.

Uh, no. We are not gods and cannot ever become God. We can, however, become more LIKE God in some respects.

When we speak of a divine nature, we don't mean by the word "nature" that we are (or are not) becoming more moral or conforming more and more to the divine will or anything of that sort.

When "nature" is referred to here, it is speaking of the identity of the being, what defines him, not some of his characteristics only, which is what we have in mind when we say of some friend that he is "good-natured" or has "an inquisitive nature," etc..

 

[Odë:hgöd]

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FAQ: I have thus far been a failure at complying with the Sermon On The Mount
and I don't anticipate doing any better in future. How would an interested party go
about obtaining this divine nature spoken of by 2Pet 1:2-4 so I don't end up a total
loser in both this life and the next?

REPLY: Find yourself a relatively private spot-- anywhere will do, e.g. a car, a
bedroom, a restroom, a walk in the woods, under a boardwalk, or on top of a
building: whatever.

Cover your face with your hands. That will give you a sense of privacy. Then simply
speak up and share your concerns with God. Don't be afraid to impose on His
generosity. God and His No.1 son have gone to extremes arranging this
transformation for us and will truly appreciate your interest in taking advantage of
it.

* You can just imagine the disappointment of someone preparing a feast and
nobody showed up. Well; you are going to show up.
_