Women the gifts G-d gave to them, A list of powerful verses and scripture G-d gave to women.

[Albion]

Do not go there -_- Albion, you leave Ellen out of this. Were talking about women gifts not your machist and narrow way minded that only men lead when in bible times women did great things.

I said that women performed important service for the early church (and still do). That doesn't mean that they were priests or bishops, however, and the evidence is overwhelming that they were not.

I do believe women can't be pastors

Good. I'm sorry that the language barrier that exists here didn't make that clear.

but please check in women can't teach in the pulpit

No, they cannot since that is a priestly function.

God didn't make man an emperor he made him his son and obey him.

God did choose different roles in life for different people, however, and the Bible is clear about women not being priests or bishops. You seem to want to reward women by making them clergy, but the problem is that Christ gets to make the decision on the leadership of the church he founded and being in the pulpit is not a reward for being a loyal member of the congregation or a well-respected person.

In any case, this discussion is a side-issue, not the stated topic of this thread. It only arose because I (and, I think, others) wanted to know where you picked up such unique and nonChristian notions that you were promoting. From your posts, it appears that you have somehow merged Christian with some nonChristian ideas, and if we are to understand what you are teaching (while not agreeing with it) knowing the answer to that question would help. But you refused, so that's where it stands.

 

[grumix8]

Here we do agree women can't be priest ! but can women teach ! Yes.

And bible verses can be showned ! But first the the fact that proves A very important point in all this matter Albion I will ask you one thing ?

Does Jesus have higher authrity than Paul ? For everyoen to ask if pauls writes soemthing and Jesus did not write it and his word is and his athourity is higher than Jesus might I ask you ? Paul whatever he wrote has no athourity above Jesus just remember becuase that is pivotal in this discusiion and in the pulpit which I show with many greek lexicon and greek words another point albion has already written and the truth is !

Jesus is higher authority than Paul and what Paul writes is above Jesus ? In no where does jesus says that women kept silent only paul says it can paul writting be above Jesus or if Jesus says to preach and women teach that jesus died for our sins and he is coming back that in church or temple while they spread the gospel does paul athourity overturn that ? In no means can Paul change anything Jesus wrote and ordered and said Paul cannot go against God who came as Jesus.

Know I also believed that women were not allowed to preach but know that Jesus showed me that his word is above and he and only he can change the mosaic law.

John 13:34: “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.” If you are a follower of Jesus, a Christian, a child of God through faith in Christ, you are a person under authority.

See he can add new commandments not Paul, not peter neither the prophet elijah. What pauls speaks is advice he is not law maker or giver. I follow Jesus and in no place in the new testament he denies women to teach there ! He tells them to preach his words there. Man can be preist but women can't but they can teach the word and coming of Jesus death and ressurection.

The lord Jesus comamnds it and no matter what Paul or Peter says they cannot change that !

 

[grumix8]

Albion I believe in pauls teachinsg but Jesus teachings are more important and his teachinigs are above prophets and kings ! Paul says women are silent and is influence by rabbianical tradition about women place. he does this because Judaism tradition states that women be sitted in A place in the synagouge so they kept silence but still what paul says is not above what Jesus states and paul is not above what the prophets state aswell he is part of it but not above it that is what i'm stating.

Women cannot be queens ( exceptions ),priests, soldiers, judges, and witnesses ( the law does say anyone who is A witness of A crime can be used ! women also have been witnesess ) but this is how things were back in the day Albion women can speak of the word of God and makes hymns and teach them. Jesus gives athority for women to do so but Paul athority is not above Jesus ! ;D

 

[Albion]

Jesus is higher authority than Paul and what Paul writes is above Jesus ? In no where does jesus says that women kept silent only paul says it can paul writting be above Jesus or if Jesus says to preach and women teach that jesus died for our sins and he is coming back that in church or temple while they spread the gospel does paul athourity overturn that ? In no means can Paul change anything Jesus wrote and ordered and said Paul cannot go against God who came as Jesus.

Know I also believed that women were not allowed to preach but know that Jesus showed me that his word is above and he and only he can change the mosaic law.

You're simply picking verses out of the Bible that appeal to something in you...and discarding the rest of what God had to say, including what Jesus specifically directed. Theologically speaking, that's invalid.

When it comes to this matter of women in the church, all the facts are on the side of a male clergy, but you want to find some way to work around God's word, don't you? I mean, you want to believe that women doing the duties reserved for men is Godly because, well, you decided that it isn't really pastoral work anyway. And you want the Church of Christ to operate according to the rules and regulations of the old Hebrew religion (as you perceive it to have been). But this is Christianity, not Judaism! And those are a few examples.

 

[grumix8]

What Albion you do something similar Albion you pick verses and objected to women. And chrisitainty is part of Judaism Albion forgot to look at that Jesus was Jew. He comes from the tribe of Judah i'm sorry to disspapoint ya int his matter times for you to open you eyes. Your A descendant of jews and the bible is written hebrew. Sorry to say to you but your wrong Chrisitainty is hebrew and women ahve so much aprt as man do in the bible just like man prophets exist here Albion you want to deny that Judaism didn't give brith to Crhistianity they are the same :O.

How ridiculous are albion saying that Christianity are not the same as Judaism the worhsip Hashem is saying that show you just not recognizizing jews exist they do and were the first christians sweet lord with ya albion.

 

[Albion]

What Albion you do something similar Albion you pick verses and objected to women.

I didn't do that. I admit that I gave you only some of the many proofs in the Bible that show a male-only clergy: bishops, priests, deacons. That doesn't mean that the point wasn't proven.

There is much more than could be presented and I thought that some of the proofs would show you enough to convince you of your error. I guess I was wrong about that and I could have spent a lot of time writing a much longer response, but would you have believed that if I had done so? Is your mind open to such evidence?

There is a lot of evidence indicating what I told you and almost none that can be put on the other side. Even when churches today debate the issue, the pro-women's ordination side of the debate has nothing to offer except for 'God loves everyone, so....'

And chrisitainty is part of Judaism

It's not.

How ridiculous are albion saying that Christianity are not the same as Judaism

Now, that's truly erroneous. Christianity shares some characteristics with Judaism, and it grew out of Judaism, but you are very wrong to think that Jesus did not found a new Church.

He said exactly that to Peter, if you remember. And he gave specific instructions to the believers concerning that new church, not just to go on being good Jews while remembering Jesus as well.

 

[Albion]

Paul says women are silent and is influence by rabbianical tradition about women place. he does this because Judaism tradition states that women be sitted in A place in the synagouge so they kept silence but still what paul says is not above what Jesus states and paul is not above what the prophets state aswell he is part of it but not above it that is what i'm stating.

There are several ways of understanding what Paul was getting at there, but the issue we have been discussing does not depend on understanding that one verse. There are some fundamentalist churches which forbid women pastors on account of that verse, but 3/4 of all the Christians in the world belong to churches that don't ordain women and their churches do not retain an all-male clergy because of that verse. So just forget it when looking at the matter. There are a number of other, more decisive facts that show God's intention to have only males as clergy.

 

[grumix8]

listen to yourself albion you juts contradicted ya self you say chirsitianity is part of judaims but isn't and obey the mosaic law and cite verses about the law and then say we are not before you say things and have contradicted yoruself young man really check what you said becuase you have contradicted and shows your not sure.

 

[Albion]

listen to yourself albion you juts contradicted ya self you say chirsitianity is part of judaims

No, I did not.

The problem is that you are semi-literate.

 

[grumix8]

You can't say jewish and christian things don't come from they do and culture belongs to G-d. They both worship G-d and serve him.

 

[grumix8]

Women in the law of the mosaic law, the higher status, equal status, and lower status
Part 2:

From the last part of part 1 Genesis we continue and we are in the time of the law of moses did the law of moeses favored women over men ? Yes. Womed did have the law to it's advantage and did the plan of G-d even though of the punity of the law and the harsh era of ruled by the strongets, by the tip of the sword law and for an eye for an eye women amde it to finsihed the law. And loved in those times ? Yes they did and did great features like moses mother saving his son, Joshua leading his people even after Moses left them, and more acts of fervor faith and love to G-d to do his will and survived happened.

What where the high status in those times women recieved over men ?


We see in those times women had power they serve G-d and did the plan of God they had higher status. equal status and low status but still serve the plan of G-d.

The first laws that gave women higher status position than men.

Numbers 27:1-7

The daughters of Zelophehad told Moses it wasn't fair for the to lose their property and their house and talked to Moses for help about it. Zelophed left the tribe but still his name was improtant and the daughter didn't want their heritage to be gone. Moses went and talk to G-d and he said the daugher were right and told moses they keep the land.

Here God sided with women and women could keep the property if the father died. They can inherit it.

We have another issue

Genesis 31:16

Rachel and Leah talk about their property they inherit and they can have property. In A time
when only man could own property few countries recognized women the right of property thru law. One of them is Egyptian culture and the other is Hebrew culture the law of moses gave women the right to have property thru inheritance.

Numbers 27:8

The law that establishes daughters can keep the house and property.

Deuteronomy 25:5-10

The law of the sandal if A husband dies and the brother of A wife decides not get married to her. They wife can go to the council and in front of them slap him with his sandal and she keeps the house bizzare law in those times but another law that A woman keeps the hosue and property.

Levitcus 19:20-22

If a man lies sexually with a woman who is a slave, assigned to another man and not yet ransomed or given her freedom, a distinction shall be made. They shall not be put to death, because she was not free;

Here if an error and they slept together women slave and it was A mistake the male can give a ram in order for the sin to be forgiven and this way they won't get both killed and forgiven. Here in an awkard position A slave slept with A man but she belonsg to her master as property and he slept with her but she is not free he would of gotten killed in other places but the mosaic law if A man fell for A women and was not free she was owned and it was discovered the owner like saying he pass thru private property he could of been killed the man and also the girl.

But law exist if such thing happen the owner of the slave wouldn't kill him or her if he gave the ram for their transgression. Thinsg that happen back in those times.

Exodus 21:7-11

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. A Man could sell his daughter to slavery the law allowed it but also rules existed to it.

8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her[a] for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights.

And if the man who bought the servant cannot give this things to the women he has purchased.

11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

She could go free.

 

[grumix8]

Women in the mosaic law
Part 3:

Still the higher status of the law.

Exodus 21:2-3

2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him.

A daughter that is sold to slavery no matter what by law is set free she will work six years and in the seventh year be free.

Leviticus 15:19
.
19 “When a woman has a discharge, and the discharge in her body is blood, she shall be in her menstrual impurity for seven days, and whoever touches her shall be unclean until the evening.

A women had A period she was protected and was not allowed for anyone to touch respecting her space

Leviticus 19:29

A law that protect daughter and said to fathers not to let daughters end in prostituing themselves.


29 “Do not profane your daughter by making her a prostitute, lest the land fall into prostitution and the land become full of depravity.

Numbers 5:12-28

The Sotah law or law of the river if A woman is accused of infidelity she was a given A choice to prove her innnocence she would swim up the river and thru the currents survive and if she passed she was proven innocent. For some the law was harsh but A law was given so women could have A choice it was better other kingdoms or culture would of juts of stone her or cut her head or hanged her. Without given her any chance of proving her innocence. No, other culture dont' have laws like those and women would of being juts killed with out giving her A chance.

13 if a man lies with her sexually, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her, since she was not taken in the act,

28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be free and shall conceive children.

Leviticus 22:12-13

A women that is daughter of A priest if she is divorced or widow she could return to her father and live with him.

12 If a priest's daughter marries a layman, she shall not eat of the contribution of the holy things.

Numbers 30:3

A women makes vows and in those times A vow that they would keep a conduct or work as a promise was taken very serious. They were sacred and special thing given to them by the law.

Numbers 30:10-14

A women will make A vow and later would be to hard or have promblems completing them the husband can dissolved them and she no longer keeps them helping them women. A law to make vows was made and the law to dissolve them was made also.

Deuteronomy 22:13-18

If girl was accused of not being virgin A law made and the parents can defend her. The bring A blanket proving no blood was ever there and thus the man who accused gets punished. Saving the girl life.

Deuteronomy 22:25-27

A man rapes A women he will be put to death ! But the women is saved.

26 And you are not to do anything to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, [c]so is this case.

Deuteronomy 24:5

A man who is married and ther is A war G-d made A law protects that couple and the man does not go to war and stayw ith his wife A whole year and make her wife happy.

5 “When a man takes a new wife, he is not to go out with the army, nor be assigned any duty; he shall be free at home for one year and shall make his wife whom he has taken happy.

Deuteronomy 10:17-22

God gives special protection and law protecting and justice giving to them.

18 He executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and shows His love for the stranger by giving him food and clothing.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29

A law that says A tithe or tenth of your winnings give to the widows of your town.

9 And the Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance among you, and the stranger, the [b]orphan, and the widow who are in your [c]town, shall come and eat and be satisfied, in order that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.

Deuteronomy 16:10-11

Another law of your offering also to give to widows.

11 and you shall rejoice before the Lord your God, you, your son and your daughter, and your male and female slaves, and the Levite who is in your [c]town, and the stranger, the [d]orphan, and the widow who are in your midst, at the place where the Lord your God chooses to establish His name.

Deuteronomy 24:17-18

Do not pervert the justice of A widow.

17 “You shall not pervert the justice [a]due a stranger or [b]an orphan, nor seize a widow’s garment as a [c]pledge.

Genesis 38:26

A woman was written in the bible to be more righteous than A man that was Judah so was given A place in bible history when women where not given imprtance in A time that was harsh.

26 And Judah recognized them, and said, “She is more righteous than I, since I did not give her to my son Shelah.” And he did not [a]have relations with her again

This are the high status of women and show they had hihger prefrence than man and G-d sided with them, they ahd use of the laws and the mosaic law had laws that were meant for them. This part of the women in the bible the part 1 talks about before the law in midst of Abraham and Sarah had things G-d gave to them. And Part 2 and 3 Talk about the law but in the time of Moses and the mosaic law. The high status of the law we will now see the Equal status and alter the low status of the law.

 

[grumix8]

Women in the mosaic law
Part 4:

Now that we saw what the higher status we will see the equal status and know that women were equal in front of the law.

Exodus 20:10

Women keep the sabbath.

10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your [a]resident who [b]stays with you.
Exodus 35:22
Women can give offering to the lord the same as men.
22 Then all [a]whose hearts moved them, both men and women, came and brought brooches and [b]earrings and signet rings and bracelets, all articles of gold; so did everyone who [c]presented an offering of gold to the Lord.

Exodus 35:22

Women can give freewill offering like men.

29 The [a]Israelites, all the men and women, whose heart [b]moved them to bring material for all the work, which the Lord had commanded through Moses to be done, brought a [c]voluntary offering to the Lord.

Exodus 38:3-8

Women worked outside at the tabernacle and helped and did services outside the doors.

8 Moreover, he made the basin of bronze with its base of bronze, [a]from the mirrors of the serving women who served at the doorway of the tent of meeting.

Leviticus 10:14

Daughters could eat of the sacrifice meat preist did to the lord and offered to him just like the sons giving equal treatment.

14 The breast of the wave offering, however, and the thigh of the offering you may eat in a clean place, you and your sons and your daughters with you; for they have been given as your allotted portion and your sons’ allotted portion from the sacrifices of the peace offerings of the sons of Israel.

Deuteronomy 12:12-18

women could eat of the offering and were equal as sons here also.

18 But you shall eat them before the Lord your God in the place which the Lord your God will choose, you and your son and daughter, and your male and female slaves, and the Levite who is within your gates; and you shall rejoice before the Lord your God in all [d]your undertakings.

Deuteronomy 16:11-14

women could eat of the offering and were equal as sons here also.

14 and you shall rejoice in your feast, you, your son and your daughter, and your male and female slaves, and the Levite, the stranger, the [f]orphan, and the widow who are in your [g]towns.

Deuteronomy 29:9

Women were present when giving the command by God that they are part of the covenant with G-d with men also.

9 So you will keep the words of this covenant and do them, in order that you may be successful in everything that you do.

Exodus 21:26-31

A women slaved just like men if hurted will be let freed and owner compensated if damage.

27 And if he [b]knocks out a tooth of his male or female slave, he shall let [c]the slave go free on account of the tooth.

Deuteronomy 15:12

Women and men can be freed equally in the 7th year.

12 “If your fellow countryman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you for six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him [a]free.

Exodus 21:2-4

You buy A hebrew women or men another place that say after the sixth year you are free in the seventh year.

2 “If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall leave as a free man without a payment to you. 3 If he comes [a]alone, he shall leave [b]alone; if he is the husband of a wife, then his wife shall leave with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall belong to her master, and he shall leave [c]alone.


This are equal law in the next part we will dive in more becasue the law in slavery and in temple works men and women were given equal treatment.

 

[grumix8]

Women in the mosaic law
Part 5:


We continue from the last time we see women gave equal status. Women had equal status in the laws of slavery and we start from there

Exodus 21:7-11

Man can sells daughters and son.

7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,[a] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her.

Levitcus 27:1-8

Sons and daughters can be dedicated to the temple and serve for 7 years and then leave. They have different price of shekels but still both can be offered to service at temple.

2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If anyone makes a special vow to dedicate a person to the Lord by giving the equivalent value, 3 set the value of a male between the ages of twenty and sixty at fifty shekels[a] of silver, according to the sanctuary shekel[b]; 4

Genesis 29:24

Daughters can recieve servatns like sons can recieve.

24 And Laban gave his servant Zilpah to his daughter as her attendant.

Deuteronomy 31:10

Women were part of the feast of canceling debts and like men were pardon of debts every 7 years.

10 Then Moses commanded them: “At the end of every seven years, in the year for canceling debts, during the Festival of Tabernacles,

Deuteronomy 22:15

Women can be witness in law ! Here is an exception women can be witness back in those days in the mosaic law rabbias would not put A women in the stand to be witness of A crime because the times were different but here A women with her husband can go to and stand in front of the council can say in front of them if A daughter is virgin or not.

15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin.

Ruth 4:9

Women can sell property like men just to prove they ahd right of property in the mosaic law.

9 Then Boaz announced to the elders and all the people, “Today you are witnesses that I have bought from Naomi all the property of Elimelek, Kilion and Mahlon.

Numbers 6:2

Women have law where they can do the nazarite vow just like Jesus did also Samson kept that vow and women can do so the same.

2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man or woman wants to make a special vow, a vow of dedication to the Lord as a Nazirite,

Exodus 20:12

A command by God saying to honor both mother and father giving equal status both women and men.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

Exodus 21:15-17

A law protecting father and mothers

15 “Anyone who attacks[a] their father or mother is to be put to death.

Joshua 8:34-35

Women recieve the law just like men do !

34 Afterward, Joshua read all the words of the law—the blessings and the curses—just as it is written in the Book of the Law. 35 There was not a word of all that Moses had commanded that Joshua did not read to the whole assembly of Israel, including the women and children, and the foreigners who lived among them.

Judges 17:3

even though this was silver was used for worshipping other idols it shows that women did relgious work in those times

3 When he returned the eleven hundred shekels of silver to his mother, she said, “I solemnly consecrate my silver to the Lord for my son to make an image overlaid with silver. I will give it back to you.”

1 samuel 1:9

Hannah did acces to the temple to worship G-d here we see women like Hannah could go to temple and do service in the temple.

9 Once when they had finished eating and drinking in Shiloh, Hannah stood up. Now Eli the priest was sitting on his chair by the doorpost of the Lord’s house.

Exodus 38:8

Women did work at templsa nd help the priest and services at the tabernacle of the lord.

8 They made the bronze basin and its bronze stand from the mirrors of the women who served at the entrance to the tent of meeting.

Exodus 15:20

The first record of women been prophetess.

20 Then Miriam the prophet, Aaron’s sister, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women followed her, with timbrels and dancing.

Exodus 35:22

Women are equal in wave offerings. And like men were giving the option to give free offering.

22 All who were willing, men and women alike, came and brought gold jewelry of all kinds: brooches, earrings, rings and ornaments. They all presented their gold as a wave offering to the Lord.

Exodus 35:29

Women can bring freewill offering like men.

29 All the Israelite men and women who were willing brought to the Lord freewill offerings for all the work the Lord through Moses had commanded them to do.

Exodus 36:3

Women help build the tabrennacle with their freewill offerings.

3 They received from Moses all the offerings the Israelites had brought to carry out the work of constructing the sanctuary. And the people continued to bring freewill offerings morning after morning.

Levitcus 10:14

Women can eat sacrficial offering.

14 But you and your sons and your daughters may eat the breast that was waved and the thigh that was presented. Eat them in a ceremonially clean place; they have been given to you and your children as your share of the Israelites’ fellowship offerings.

Deuteronomy 12:12-18

Women and man can eat of sacrifice meat.

18 Instead, you are to eat them in the presence of the Lord your God at the place the Lord your God will choose—you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, and the Levites from your towns—and you are to rejoice before the Lord your God in everything you put your hand to.

Deuteronomy 16:11-14

Women can eat sacrifical offering another passage talking about the same area.

13 Celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles for seven days after you have gathered the produce of your threshing floor and your winepress. 14 Be joyful at your festival—you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, and the Levites, the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns.

Deuteronomy 29:9-15

women and man are part of the covenant of the law that includes the ten commandments and the 613 mitzvah laws.

12 You are standing here in order to enter into a covenant with the Lord your God, a covenant the Lord is making with you this day and sealing with an oath, 13 to confirm you this day as his people, that he may be your God as he promised you and as he swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Numbers 18:11-19

women and men were equal in activities in religious celebration.

19 Whatever is set aside from the holy offerings the Israelites present to the Lord I give to you and your sons and daughters as your perpetual share. It is an everlasting covenant of salt before the Lord for both you and your offspring.”

Deuteronomy 23:17-18

Women should not be shrine prostitutes.

17 No Israelite man or woman is to become a shrine prostitute. 18 You must not bring the earnings of a female prostitute or of a male prostitute[a] into the house of the Lord your God to pay any vow, because the Lord your God detests them both.

Leviticus 21:1-3

Women and daughters were part of A ceremony of priests not to be unclean and to be clean in front of women.

21 The Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the priests, the sons of Aaron, and say to them: ‘A priest must not make himself ceremonially unclean for any of his people who die, 2 except for a close relative, such as his mother or father, his son or daughter, his brother, 3 or an unmarried sister who is dependent on him since she has no husband—for her he may make himself unclean.

This is the last part of how women are equal and were equal in the mosaic law but will now talk about something that were in those times and made women equal in the service of the lord. And that is preaching and singing was the way Women sang about the great deeds the prophets did and the kings did like Saul slay his hundreths and king David slew his thousandths was how people knew of the presence of the history of Israel in the next part then after we see the low status that women canot file divorce only men could, women could not be priest, and women cannot be kings but have been exceptions.

 

[grumix8]

Women in the mosaic law
Part 6:



We left off from last time where women are equal but another things is that women could preach and did so. Women can preach the word their was moments in the old testament God said and Jesus said to that all to give the gospel. Here are some verses.



Psalm 68:11



11 The Lord gives the [a]command;

The women who proclaim good news are a great army:


Back in those days it was not possible for women or men to knew about the word of God or study the only way people knew of the existence of the people of the tribes of Israel is by singing. There were no books there was no easy acces to information people going to towns could only hear of the exploits of others thru singing when they were passing by in cities. The exploits of how the people of God ran from the pharoah from the song of Miriam or Saul slay his hundreths and David slew his thousands were the only means people back in those days knew about stories and knew about G-d's people and their history.


See that women in the old preach by singing and is the only way that people would of known the stories of Israel



1 Samuel 18:6



6 Now it happened as they were coming, when David returned from killing the Philistine, that the women came out of all the cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet King Saul, with tambourines, with joy and with other [a]musical instruments.



See this was the only way hsitory recorded that the tribes of nearby neighbors of Israel knew it existed and Judah history. The roads were dangerous and people who passed by the people of Israel and heard the songs.



Their are 185 in the bible and 80% are in the psalms. The first one is Exo 15:1-20 .God's victory of Egypt, Deborah's song, Hannah song, Psalms, song of Moses Deut 31:1-4. This last song of Moses was attributed to him before he died. The list continues the song of songs, ,the song of Mary Luke 1:46-55, the well song num 21:17-18, and Anna's song of luke 2:36-38


Know that Anna made A song but was lost due to time and know ti was important too bad we lost it.

Anna the Prophetess - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Who was ANNA THE PROPHETESS? What did she know about Jesus?

Luke's gospel tells the story of Anna, a prophetess at the Temple of Jerusalem. She recognised Jesus as the salvation of Israel. Her long wait was over.

womeninthebible.net

But this means the song is how people knew of God and it's people. Women sang and told all the people who they were and where they come from thru songs. This shows how important was singing and it's purpose was helpful during times of the law of the strongets ruled, the tip of A swrod, and an eye for an eye was the way people could know of the people of G-d stories and exploits.



Did women preach and helped convert people to their God ? yes it was the story of Naaman who A slave girl told him about a prophet that will cure him



2 Kings 5:1-14



Women have done their part and preach the word like in the old testament and converted poeple to God such A reward but people do not know about it but it is overlooked. Women have preached in the old testemnt and in the new testament Jesus says.



Matthew 16:15-20, Luke 9:23-27, and Luke 9:23-27 also Jesus said luke 24:44.



Women can preach and participate in the law in equal status as men and serve in temples and sing and convert for the lord. As you seen women did participate daughters and sons of priest sang in temple of King Solomon in the courtyards. They sing together and worship him.



1 Chronicles 25:5-6

5 Heman was one of the king's prophets, and God honored Heman by giving him 14 sons and 3 daughters. 6 His sons were under his direction and played cymbals, harps, and other stringed instruments during times of worship at the temple.



Here is he evidence of it and aslo psalms says young woman and men to sing the lord.



Ps 148:12-13

12 every man and every woman,
young people and old,
come praise the Lord!





This shows that worship and singing was the way of preaching back in those ways and women were the one who preached it. We have seen what make equal women and men in the times of the mosaic law and after. Women did have a part in it and it was enormous in preaching and equal status. Now we will look at the low status of the women and what they can't do back in those times.

 

[grumix8]

Women in he Mosaic law
Part 7:

Now we have gone thru the part of the high status we can go to the low status in the law.

Here we know the thinsg women can't be in the law for instance they cannot be priest but can be A prophet.

Leviticus 21:1-6

Here the lord establishes what is law nad said thru 21:1-6 to also he whole chapter of 21 and 22 talk about the all the commands to make priests and thier roles in it.

21 The Lord said to Moses, “Tell these things to Aaron’s sons, the priests: A priest must not make himself unclean by touching a dead person. 2 But if the dead person was one of his close relatives, he can touch the dead body. The priest can make himself unclean if the dead person is his mother or father, his son or daughter, his brother or 3 his unmarried[a] sister. (This sister is close to him because she has no husband. So the priest may make himself unclean for her if she dies.) 4 But a priest must not make himself unclean if the dead person was only one of his slaves.[b]


5 “Priests must not shave their heads bald. They must not shave off the edges of their beards. They must not make any cuts in their bodies. 6 Priests must be holy for their God. They must show respect for God’s name. They offer the bread and special gifts to the Lord, so they must be holy.



But here we see where the bible says the first women prophet existed.

Exodus 15:20

20 Then Miriam the prophet, Aaron’s sister, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women followed her, with timbrels and dancing.

Another situation is divorce, only men can ask to the court to be divorce A women cannot go and ask to any court, priest, or king to divorce from his husband.


Deuteronomy 24:1-4

24 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house

Only men can solicit to courts for divorce another situation is war only men here God gave laws for them to go to war and only men are in this verses

Deuteronomoy 20:1-19

When you go to war against your enemies and see horses and chariots and an army greater than yours, do not be afraid of them, because the Lord your God, who brought you up out of Egypt, will be with you.

As you see in the verses no mention of women where in this verses and God only told moses to send men into war. Another issue is women cannot do is be A witness even thought the bible says men and women can be witnesses women weren't allowed in the times of moses women could not be in courts and be witness. Simply men were prefrred and A women did see A crime it was cast out as A candidate.

22:15

15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin.

We saw this in part 5 women of the mosaic law and here also applies.

Deuteronomy 17:6

6 But no one should be punished with death if only one witness says that person did that evil thing. But if two or three witnesses say it is true, the person must be killed.

here you can see the witneses it does not say only men anyone who saw it.

Numbers 35:30

30 “‘Anyone who kills a person is to be put to death as a murderer only on the testimony of witnesses. But no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.

Deuteronomy 19:1-12

law of witnesses.

people in those times were hard in the mosaic law and people lived by the point of the sword , rule of an eye for an eye, and the strongest ruled in those time even if jews obeyed the law they had to handle all type of cases in court in history prejudice and promblems in those day for instances made it hard for them The Halak rules by rabbias that will explain to solve those promblmes only men that are fit that are fit that are free are not sick can be witness inside the court but know that throughout history.

Halakha - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And rabbias have said even though they were having promblems in those times later in the kingdom era and the exile of babylon women were used as witnesses can be witness but know women thoughout hsitory even though they were having promblmes in those times the use women in some isntance in A women can become witness in some parts of the courtcourt like the marriage the section ketubah and kiddush also the gidor converting gentiles into hebrews but with the consent of the individual and the rabbia judging the whole case can ask the women to participate but if it doesn't hurt the case.

Ketubah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Kiddushin (Talmud) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

so people in those segments of the law women can be witness and rabbias in some certain isntances can let women be those witness. but for you to undersand it depends the case and the rabbia will decide because of society in those times. Back in those times people remember that man were the ones that sustian the family who gave food who own the property and were given all those stuff and they were the majority women were given by the law equal status and higher but still society in those times did not recognize those things were more depended on the law of the strongests, law of the point of the sword or the law of an eye for an eye.

Testimony in Jewish law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But to find the exception of the law there was one it was 22:15 mother could be witness in case things like that happen.

Why Can’t Women Be Witnesses?

Last week my husband participated in Stake Day at the Temple. He took the afternoon off from work and went to help with some sealings. While I myself have a hard time with the temple, I do want to …

www.the-exponent.com

Yes, Women Can Be Witnesses In Jewish Courts

While there are numerous challenges when it comes to Orthodox Judaism comporting with modern mores, one of the most common issues that people struggle with is the prohibition of women being witnesses in Jewish courts. There is no official reason given for this limitation, it is simply based on...

jewinthecity.com

But the other thing they cannot do is be A judge.


Deuteronomy 17:8-13

No mention of women beign judge only men can be judge.

Law Courts​

8 If cases come before your courts that are too difficult for you to judge—whether bloodshed, lawsuits or assaults—take them to the place the Lord your God will choose. 9 Go to the Levitical priests and to the judge who is in office at that time. Inquire of them and they will give you the verdict. 10 You must act according to the decisions they give you at the place the Lord will choose. Be careful to do everything they instruct you to do. 11 Act according to whatever they teach you and the decisions they give you. Do not turn aside from what they tell you, to the right or to the left. 12 Anyone who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the Lord your God is to be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel. 13 All the people will hear and be afraid, and will not be contemptuous again.


Another excpetion is women cannot be queens.

Deuteronomy 17:14-20

Here the law of kings and only applies to men.

14 When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you and have taken possession of it and settled in it, and you say, “Let us set a king over us like all the nations around us,” 15 be sure to appoint over you a king the Lord your God chooses. He must be from among your fellow Israelites. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not an Israelite.

There is only one record of one women being queen and that is Atalah or Athaliah and even thought she was a bad queen for some she was the first to be queen in history of here nation. For only six years of her reign and save one of the people thru the desendancy of the kingship.

2 Kings 11:1-20

11 When Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she proceeded to destroy the whole royal family.


Know those are things before the mosaic and in the mosaic law the law did protect women even though people in the modern time don't know it they think all the women were oppressed in those times there were the moments in times in the laws that existed that protected women and their rights. Gave way for women to have their rights in their part in history. All the high, equal, and low status were all part of the history of the jewish people And women have thier part in the history of thejewish people. And it's a big one and their are manyt hings and more information is going to be revealed now that we see that law area were going to keep on going and see thru the bible and many instances that women did their part in the plan of God.

Like women like Eve the first woman who is mother of all humankind she did her part as role fo all mothers, Sarah who is another mother, is the on of all Israel and was wife of Abraham she was giving blessings like Abraham, Also Hagar the mother of arabs, wife of Abraham also she gave birth A civilization like Sarah but without a husband and was blessed, and Miriam sister of moses, the first women prophet.

There were the most imporant women but women not writting in hollywood or seen in movies did do gigantics things like Sherah the daughter of Ephraim

1 Chronicles 7:24

People dind't know in A time when their so much prejudice women built cities, no there is more women women like her and the bible have and we also have another one Deborah the prophet she saved her peopel and did the plan of god and in moments that are so difficult for normal men and we also have another women. another women like Rahab who was not hebrew but still ahd faith and if it wasn't for her Israel would of not been made, besides this great ladies that defend Israel serve God and his plan there are other greta women : Rebekah, Rachel, Leah, wife of Gideon, Manoehs' wife, Hanah, Ruth, and other wise women in those times.

This are the times this women did battle and they all did their part of the plan of God. The next part we will the women in the times of the kings and queens of Israel and if there was women great bravery and love that did the plan of G-d.

 

[grumix8]

Women in the time of the kings and queens of Israel and Judah.
Part 8:

We have done good and we continue now in the time of kings and queens of the kingship of Israel and Judah. We will see the law in those times were important and even in kings the Israeliets had hard times they serve G-d but we will see that women did their part and if it wasn't for them Abigail who lied to save king David, king Solomon bowed to his mother, A women can ask audience to A king and see him, and many instances the future of Israel were in the hands of women and flourish thanks to them.


Even though in those times people the psalms gave great beauty and literature and proverbs and psalms all sahre important parts in the women in God.

Proverbs 3:5-6 KJV​

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; And lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, And he shall direct thy paths. People you been fooled since the beggining of life you've been taught by a culture and by the system of education that god is evil that god is bad that history is correct. You know by now history has many errors many errors and you cannot understand that you been fooled by babylon and masonery and people don't realized they have to find the truth of the bibe and corrects them find the real stuff of the bible. So they don't get into to traps and die in this world.

So people even though the psalms and the proverbs help and guide people to understand more about God's plan sometimes women ahve it hard but that's why God gave them so much power and strength sometimes women have to do the hardest things to do the plan of God. The plan of God even in those times in the past women that kept law even in adversity and worship the law. Women ahd it hard because times were in a tip of a sword but women with faith and love were able to push in those hard times. And do the plan of God even in sometimes they had higher status or equal status.

Higher status in the law or equal status women can do everthing because God gave them all the power even in the lower status. Women like Esther as you see had to do the impossible had to protect her people and saved them and had to guide a king. Women had to do the impossibe it is part of the plan of God the law used by women and she can use it in the right way to do the plan of God. That is why men can't do the law of God can't complete it can't do things because of the law becuase of thier hardened hearts sometimes they have to look for women to do the other part.

The other part. and sometimes man can't do it because of so many errors in life like David who needed Abigail but thanks to her cunnings her intelligence she ahd to lie to save David even though some people would not agree. God used Esther to do the impossible and like Esther there were women like Deborah who is the mother of Israel and Ruth who also had to do so much sacrifice the women must be in God's love and think if it's what God wants or to put or better say and put it in God's hands and wait until he does it.

Wait for God to act on things for women to do God's plan they must to do that and they must do more things in God's commmand for women to do what God's wants they must be A change person and instead of been educated by the world they find the true power and thier gifts inside the bible to make all that powerful things so they can know thier stuff. And the women of God thy must know those 2 commandments of love they must love thy father and love thy neighbor she must be A change person and leave sin and obey god and not men or women either for women to be A women of A god and not A women of men they need to pray, pray, and pray all day and night to be like that and God will give it too you and be A woman of God. For some the law did not permit the woman to participate in the law but women can obey the law. When a man passes by orphan in the streets he doesn't give him food or anything he walks away but if a women if she sees an orphan she will adopt him make her an Israelite and give him a family, food, and water.

We have proverbs 22:6 that explains that action

Start children off on the way they should go, and even when they are old they will not turn from it.

Deuteronomy 10:18

18 He executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and shows His love for the stranger by giving him food and clothing.

See he tells them to give food to orphans and women instinctively

James 1:27

27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Women do this naturally with an orphan.

When a man finds an enemy soldier outside town and he says he out there to kill him because he is an enemy, a women wouldn't do that a women will find the soldier heal him up and set him free. When A widow prays to God and a man is accused of wrongdoing in a village but knows he is innocent still knowing the village will persecute her. Later knowing those man wanted to steal his land she risks it all and tells them he is innocent even though later she will be persecuted. Know that widows are always protect by the law women can do this things and men can't because the law sometimes impedes man and sometimes men let their hearts be harded and let their hearts be like stone. The law is meant to protect and serve the lord made that way the ten commandsments are meant not to be changed but instead to hold you prisoner but instead are meant to get you to fulfill the commandments of the lord but the mosaic law and later the kings of israel and judah things got more complicated as times changes and people changed.


And new technologies change things people became to strict and the laws became walls then and people cannot complete the law and the purpose of the 10 commandments for the return of jesus chirst.

Put the yoke of the law on Israel.

Acts 15:7-11

7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.

Gentiles are not under the yoke of the law but from the tribes of Israel.

Galatians 5:1-15

5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Jesus made us free from the yoke of bondage the law that is.

Remember that the law was directed to the tribes of judah and the gentiles part of all the things of the lord but thru Jesus christ the law are like stairs to help us get to the school master. Who is jesus christ so he will saves so we will be save not by our own works but thru faith and love in Jesus christ and by keeping the law the law was for the coming of Jesus Christ. Law was for the coming for Jesus christ.

 

[grumix8]

Part 8:a

Galatians 3:22-26​

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.​

The law was for the coming of Jesus christ to be guardian until he will die for us

Romans 13:8-13

10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The love is the fulfillment of the law.

That is the sole purpose of the law jus guards us until the messiah was to fulfill the law how do we do that like romans says 13:8-13 The love is the fulfillment of the law. is like Paul says there is no law against doing good even though modern day law say if you interfere with an operation that sometimes the police or fire dept is doing something. Even though your helping and you did help you will still be aressted. But Paul says there is no law in doing good people also God's law said it. Also jesus says it .

Galatians 5:22-33

23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

No law in doing good.

But still jesus was not going to change the law he was going to fulfill and he did by loving thy neighbor and loving thy God. He gave up his own power in heaven to came to the world powerless and be like man to show the world to put it's faith in God instead of their own works trust in god and put your hands in him and people will know it's wasn't his will but god's . And how did he do it people ? By praying, praying, and praying. The same for women to do just like women can take Nazarite vows.

Romans 2:13-16

14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.

Gentiles are saved even though they did not know thy 10 commandments.

but still in Jesus times the mosaic law and the times of the israelites kings the law was strict and though even man became hard with the hearts men were punished by doing good. And too many things were contradicting themselves in the time of the mosaic law and the kings. For example the daughters of Zelophehad.

Deuteronomy 27:1-11

7 “What Zelophehad’s daughters are saying is right. You must certainly give them property as an inheritance among their father’s relatives and give their father’s inheritance to them.

Daughters were gonna lose the property and name but God interceded so they keep it.

Well that's just one.

Mark 3:1-6

4 Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent.

man was cured in the sabbath against the law

Mosaic law times made things different and contradicted each other.

Luke 13:10-17

10 On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues,

Men was cured on the sabbath the law stopped good but Jesus completing the law cured him. Just to remember that mans is above the sabbath and the sababth and man islord over the sabbath and women too are. The law was made to serve not make people suffer or die but to make them survive and live. Another example is

Matthew 12:8

8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

Man is lord of the sabbath and women too are the law is to help not enslave.

But still jesus completed the law and did by curing him with love and keeping thy 2 commandments we see this are the examples there are more examples in the bible and the law had issues and promblemes becuase of mans fault and womens fault. and they don't know that Jesus fulfill the law and even though people judge wrong God ompleting thy 10 comandments by keeping thy 2.

He died and rise again for those who will die and believe in him will rise wih him when he returns.

2 Corinthians 4:14

14 because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself.

we will be raised by him.

Romans 2:14-17

15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

Gentiles can be saved even if they don't know the 10 commandments


This all for the part of kings they don't have laws yet but this pages show us that what is the fundamentals to understand the kingsa nd the relation in the future. Wait until the next part of 9. Were we will see those special veres of those times all for A purpose.

 

[grumix8]

Women in the time of the kings and queens of Israel and Judah.
Part 9:

We saw important part of Jesus being Lord of thy sabbath and women are also lord over it and we saw salvation by faith and the people who do not know the law are saved even if they were not bron in Jesus times and were not baptized and didn't reach it because of the age or being born before Jesus existed .

We see now the verses of the time of Abigail and many women in those times.

Those were the woman in the time before the kingdom of Judah andisrael but still did the law do the same. After moses did it help women and God use women to do the plan of God in the kingdom of Israel and Judah the status of the women during the time of the kingship we will explain higher, equal status, and lowers status. The higher status.

2 Samuel 14:15

15 Now then, the reason I have come to speak this word to my lord the king is that the people have made me afraid; so your servant said, ‘Let me now speak to the king, perhaps the king will perform the request of his slave.

women could seek the king and find audience with him.

1 King 2:19

The king Solomon bowed to her mother and she sat on the throne special privilege.

19 So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him for Adonijah. And the king stood to meet her, bowed to her, and sat on his throne; then he had a throne set up for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right.

woman in this passage could seek with the king if she had A promblem she could go directly to king if the promblem is dire also king solomon did what no king in the history of Israel bowed down to her no else can do that excpet king solomon who he bowed to her mother in front of his throne.

Psalm 68:11-12

the women proclaim his word and preach with singing.

11 The Lord gives the command;
The women who proclaim good news are a great army:

Judges 11:40

Here daughters represent Israel

Judges 11:40, : that the daughters of Israel went year by year to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in the year.

Job 42:13-15

daughter could recieve the inheritance before the sons.

15 In all the land no women were found as beautiful as Job’s daughters; and their father gave them inheritances among their brothers.

Proverbs 11:16

Women recieves honor

16 A gracious woman attains honor,
And ruthless men attain riches.

Proverbs 12:4

A noble character

4 An excellent wife is the crown of her husband,
But she who shames him is like rottenness in his bones.

Proverbs 14:1

Wise woman builds her house

14 The wise woman builds her house,
But the foolish tears it down with her own hands.

Proverbs 11:22

To show discretion

22 As a ring of gold in a pig’s snout
So is a beautiful woman who lacks discretion.

Proverbs 18:22

Finds a good wife finds favor with the lord

22 He who finds a wife finds a good thing
And obtains favor from the Lord.

Proverbs 19:14

Prudent wife is from the Lord.

14 House and wealth are an inheritance from fathers,
But a prudent wife is from the Lord.

Proverbs 15:25

God helps the widow

25 The Lord will tear down the house of the proud,
But He will set the boundary of the widow.

Ecclesiastes 9:9

enjoy your life with your wife which you love

9 Enjoy life with the wife whom you love all the days of your futile life which He has given you under the sun, all the days of your futility; for this is your reward in life and in your work which you have labored under the sun.

Those are the things that are the High Status, now that we see in the high status what are the things of the equal status ?

 

[grumix8]

Women in the time of the kings and queens of Israel and Judah.
Part 10:

Women had high status in those times women being put in the throne and king bowed to you, women can seek audience with king quicker than man, and God said in psalms for women to go and sing of the good news. What are now the equal status that man women equal in those times ?

Psalm 109:14

Men and women thier sins are remember equally.

14 May the guilt of his fathers be remembered [a]before the Lord,
And do not let the sin of his mother be wiped out.

Psalm 148:12

men and women to praise equally regardless of being virgins.

12 Both young men and virgins;
Old men and children.

2 Samuel 6:17-19

Ceremony of the ark equal status

19 Further, he distributed to all the people, to all the multitude of Israel, both to men and women, a cake of bread, one of dates, and one of raisins to each one. Then all the people left, each to his house.


Psalm 68:24-26

Women can worship equally with men

25:The singers went on, the musicians after them,
In the midst of the young women beating tambourines.

2 Chronicles 35:25

Women equal by singing in the temple.

25 Then Jeremiah chanted a song of mourning for Josiah. And all the male and female singers speak about Josiah in their songs of mourning to this day. And they made them an ordinance in Israel; behold, they are also written in the Lamentations.

2 Samuel 19:35

Another verse women equal in the singing.

35 I am now eighty years old. Can I distinguish between good and bad? Or can your servant taste what I eat or what I drink? Or can I still hear the voice of men and women singing? Why then should your servant be an added burden to my lord the king?

Psalm 144:12

girls and boys equally valued

12 When our sons in their youth are like growing plants,
And our daughters like corner pillars fashioned for a palace,

Proverbs 6:20-22

Mothers and fathers wisdom are equal.

My son, comply with the commandment of your father,
And do not ignore the teaching of your mother;

This are the equal status in those times and actions in history of the bibles shows were equal and could sing, could be in the temple, and also serve the lord and their wisdom as mother and fathers is equal and shows that God used and gave them A fair part in the temple singing worshipping him. Going to make short the low status because the law stayed the same way before and women were not allowed just in the time of mosaicl law and also the time of kings to be priests, judges, and could not file divorce but had one queen in those times. Queen Athaliah is the only woman in the Hebrew Bible reported as having reigned as a monarch within Israel. But had an exception we look at very important part of psalms,ecclesiastes, and proverbs for we will find secrets of what King solomon holds and find secret things about God's secret nature find things like god says he is a mother bear and A mother eagel and more suprising that he is A women in labor witht he verses.