Have you ever been Chastised by God?

[1689Dave]

“For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.” Hebrews 12:6–8 (KJV 1900)

God chastised me several times. But one of the times it was beyond frightening as far as putting the fear of God in my heart. I then was able to understand why John would say “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

He won't let you continue in sin. And his chastisement is so frightening you won't sin. Not that you are not sinful, but you won't give in to the lusts of the flesh ever again.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons

What happens if you don't endure the chastisement, but rather apostatize instead?

 

[Jason76]

The parable of the fig tree shows God gives us many chances with chastisement a lot I think, but if we persist in sin we are cut down (I don't believe in eternal security.).

Myself, I have been chastised a lot.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

The parable of the fig tree shows God gives us many chances with chastisement a lot I think, but if we persist in sin we are cut down (I don't believe in eternal security.).

Myself, I have been chastised a lot.

What does "cut down" mean?

 

[1689Dave]

The parable of the fig tree shows God gives us many chances with chastisement a lot I think, but if we persist in sin we are cut down (I don't believe in eternal security.).

Myself, I have been chastised a lot.

Jesus says believers have eternal life. But if you are unrepentant God will either kill you as was the case with the Corinthian brother, until he repented. Or he will chastise you to the point you will not wilfully sin ever again. But eternal life is forever. If you can lose it, you are the savior and probably not saved.

 

[Jason76]

Jesus says believers have eternal life. But if you are unrepentant God will either kill you as was the case with the Corinthian brother, until he repented. Or he will chastise you to the point you will not wilfully sin ever again. But eternal life is forever. If you can lose it, you are the savior and probably not saved.

No, but I can see how that view is humane, if you don't believe in a temporary hell.

Anyway, the vine parable speaks of branches being cut off and burned. That pretty much means being left with a chance of going to hell, which I believe is purgatorial.

Well, what about the verse where it says to pluck the eye our rather than risk hell?

Anyway, again, regarding your comments, nobody saves themselves, but people can refuse help. In other words, God doesn't force people to walk in the light. Only those walking in the light, not committing sins worthy of death inherit he kingdom of God - and that's another big verse out there.

Note: when people accept help, they cannot brag they made a good choice, because all deserve hell - which I'm sure Calvinists are familiar with that idea.

 

[1689Dave]

No, but I can see how that view is humane, if you don't believe in a temporary hell.

Anyway, the vine parable speaks of branches being cut off and burned. That pretty much means being left with a chance of going to hell, which I believe is purgatorial.

Well, what about the verse where it says to pluck the eye our rather than risk hell?

Anyway, again, regarding your comments, nobody saves themselves, but people can refuse help. In other words, God doesn't force people to walk in the light. Only those walking in the light, not committing sins worthy of death inherit he kingdom of God - and that's another big verse out there.

Note: when people accept help, they cannot brag they made a good choice, because all deserve hell - which I'm sure Calvinists are familiar with that idea.

Any loving father will chastize his children for their own good.

 

[Jason76]

Any loving father will chastize his children for their own good.

He chastises believers up to a point, but then allows them to walk in danger of hell-fire. The parable about the fig tree being cut down is basically saying that when the tree is cut down, that is when God has given up. However, often he hasn't totally given up and the sinner can repent from "treason" so to speak. Well, that seems to be the message of the Prodigal (wasteful) Son parable.

 

[1689Dave]

He chastises believers up to a point, but then allows them to walk in danger of hell-fire. The parable about the fig tree being cut down is basically saying that when the tree is cut down, that is when God has given up. However, often he hasn't totally given up and the sinner can repent from "treason" so to speak. Well, that seems to be the message of the Prodigal (wasteful) Son parable.

Believers are saved forever even if they sin. But God will kill a person sending them to heaven if necessary. Or chastize them so they will not sin again.

 

[Jason76]

Believers are saved forever even if they sin. But God will kill a person sending them to heaven if necessary. Or chastize them so they will not sin again.

This is a deep topic and debated for many years. My Arminian position is I simply don't believe scripture is saying this. There is also all the parables about "weeping and gnashing of teeth" happening to people who die or meet God (end-times). I've seen some instances of Calvinists trying to say those verses were not talking about personal salvation.

 

[1689Dave]

This is a deep topic and debated for many years. My Arminian position is I simply don't believe scripture is saying this. There is also all the parables about "weeping and gnashing of teeth" happening to people who die or meet God (end-times). I've seen some instances of Calvinists trying to say those verses were not talking about personal salvation.

If you can lose your salvation, you, not Christ are your savior, falsely assumed

 

[Jason76]

If you can lose your salvation, you, not Christ are your savior, falsely assumed

That's quite a bold statement, but as I said, we don't save ourselves, but we have the freedom to refuse the offer of salvation by "not walking in the light". Humans have a real and powerful free will.

Note: people walking in the light, due so only by God's grace. However, grace can be refused.

For instance, God gives grace to the humble as it says in James.

 

[1689Dave]

That's quite a bold statement, but as I said, we don't save ourselves, but we have the freedom to refuse the offer of salvation by "not walking in the light". Humans have a real and powerful free will.

Note: people walking in the light, due so only by God's grace. However, grace can be refused.

For instance, God gives grace to the humble as it says in James.

= you are the savior, not Christ.