Jesus died for the sins of the world

[1689Dave]

Interesting theory.... please give the Scripture that states, "If you don't have faith, Christ didn't die for you." I'll eagerly await that verse. Until ten, however, I'll believe all those many Scriptures that verbatim state that Jesus died for all people. Until you quote the one that states, "No, Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for those who come to faith."

Consider this Scripture: 2 Peter 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."


These are people who DENY THE LORD and bring swift destruction on themselves.
Would you say they therefore have faith OR that they don't? Because it says the Christ "bought them."
If He didn't die for them, what exactly did He do and pay that "bought" these who deny Christ?
If He did buy them by His death and thus you claim they have saving faith, why will they be destroyed?



.

You are missing the entire meaning. It is not about the atonement. It's about the false teachers whom God ALSO bought like he did wicked Israel of old. Chubby Checker would say: "Let's not twist away like we did last summer"

 

[brightfame52]

@brightfame52


Interesting theory.... please give the Scripture that states, "If you don't have faith, Christ didn't die for you." I'll eagerly await that verse. Until then, however, I'll believe all those many Scriptures that verbatim state that Jesus died for all people. Until you quote the one that states, "No, Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for those who come to faith." Now, of course, the benefit of His death only comes to those with faith - but that doesn't deny that He died for all, it only affirms the role of faith.


Consider this Scripture:
2 Peter 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."


These are people who DENY THE LORD and bring swift destruction on themselves.
Would you say they therefore have faith OR that they don't? Doesn't it seem they probably don't since they deny Christ?
It says the Christ "bought THEM." Them - the ones who deny him.
If He didn't die for them, what exactly did He do and pay that "bought" these who deny Christ?
If He did buy them by His death and thus you claim they have saving faith, why will they be destroyed?



.

Propitiation is accomplished by Christ, He is the propitiation, then its apprehended by Faith

@brightfame52


Interesting theory.... please give the Scripture that states, "If you don't have faith, Christ didn't die for you." I'll eagerly await that verse. Until then, however, I'll believe all those many Scriptures that verbatim state that Jesus died for all people. Until you quote the one that states, "No, Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for those who come to faith." Now, of course, the benefit of His death only comes to those with faith - but that doesn't deny that He died for all, it only affirms the role of faith.


Consider this Scripture:
2 Peter 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."


These are people who DENY THE LORD and bring swift destruction on themselves.
Would you say they therefore have faith OR that they don't? Doesn't it seem they probably don't since they deny Christ?
It says the Christ "bought THEM." Them - the ones who deny him.
If He didn't die for them, what exactly did He do and pay that "bought" these who deny Christ?
If He did buy them by His death and thus you claim they have saving faith, why will they be destroyed?



.

Faith is given to the Sheep for whom Christ died, if a person abides permanently in unbelief Jesus says, its because they were not of His Sheep which He died for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you

If Christ died for a person, for His sake, that person is given the gift of believing on His Name Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

 

[brightfame52]

That's an example of illogical thinking and, as such, has nothing to do with what the Scripture is saying.

"If one isn't given Faith," what it means is that one isn't given Faith!

But what does that have to do with "Universal Atonement?" Well, nothing directly.

Universal Atonement refers to something else, to being exonerated from sin, like being acquitted in court of a crime. What it DOES NOT mean is that the person ALSO is given, at the same time and by the same action, a reward (in this case, the key to eternal life).

Christ effects the propitiation, then faith is given to apprehended it, if Christ propitiated God for you as an individual.

 

[brightfame52]

josiah

Would you say they therefore have faith OR that they don't? Because it says the Christ "bought them."

I dont see Christs name mentioned 2 Pet 2:1

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

So maybe its wise to restate that, what you think ? Dont you want to say exactly what that scripture says ?

 

[Josiah]

Propitiation is accomplished by Christ, He is the propitiation, then its apprehended by Faith

I agree.

Scripture states that Christ died for all people. I agree, the merits/benefits Christ accomplished there and are personally apprehended by faith (thus we both disagree with Dave who denies any role of faith). Now, where there is no faith, there is no apprehension of that benefit.

Faith is given to the Sheep for whom Christ died, if a person abides permanently in unbelief Jesus says, its because they were not of His Sheep which He died for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you

Well, faith is given to the Elect. But this thread is not about to whom faith is given, it's whether Scripture says Christ died for all OR whether it states that Christ die NOT die for all but ONLY for some unknown few. The issue is Universal Atonement vs. Limited Atonement.

If Christ died for a person, for His sake, that person is given the gift of believing on His Name Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Correct. Of course, this thread is not about faith, it's about the death of Jesus. Nothing in that verse that states, "Christ did not die for all persons but ONLY for those who someday will come to faith." Yes, of course, He died for those who will come to faith (no one disputes that) but where does it say "ONLY?"

I asked for the verse that states, "Jesus died ONLY for those who will eventually be given faith." That verse is essential to your claim.

josiah, I dont see Christs name mentioned 2 Pet 2:1

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

So, what other name under Heaven may people be justified? Who else "bought" Christians?

Read 2 Peter. The "people" here obviously are Christians. People "bought" by (it's kind of essential to Christianity that Christ does that). And among THEM (referring back to those whom were bought) are some who deny Christ. Unless one can have faith yet deny Christ, then this is saying Jesus bought "them" and yet they don't have faith.

Christ effects the propitiation, then faith is given to apprehended it,

Yup.

But where is the statement in Scripture that states, "Christ died ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, SOLELY for those which will someday have faith?' Certainly He died for those who will have faith, no one remotely challenges that, but doesn't Scripture so often, verbatim say that Christ died for all people? And that those given faith will apprehend it and thus benefit from it?



@brightfame52


Actually there are other Scriptures that indicate that some who reject Christ were bought by the blood of Christ. For example, Hebrew 10:29 " How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?" He was sanctified.... he has trampled underfoot the Christ... he has profaned the BLOOD (doesn't that mean the Cross?) but clearly is not saved but is "punished." He was sanctified by the BLOOD of the Son of God... but will be PUNISHED.





.

 

[brightfame52]

I agree.

Scripture states that Christ died for all people. I agree, the merits/benefits Christ accomplished there and are personally apprehended by faith (thus we both disagree with Dave who denies any role of faith). Now, where there is no faith, there is no apprehension of that benefit.






Well, faith is given to the Elect. But this thread is not about to whom faith is given, it's whether Scripture says Christ died for all OR whether it states that Christ die NOT die for all but ONLY for some unknown few. The issue is Universal Atonement vs. Limited Atonement.







Correct. Of course, this thread is not about faith, it's about the death of Jesus. Nothing in that verse that states, "Christ did not die for all persons but ONLY for those who someday will come to faith." Yes, of course, He died for those who will come to faith (no one disputes that) but where does it say "ONLY?"

I asked for the verse that states, "Jesus died ONLY for those who will eventually be given faith." That verse is essential to your claim.





So, what other name under Heaven may people be justified? Who else "bought" Christians?

Read 2 Peter. The "people" here obviously are Christians. People "bought" by (it's kind of essential to Christianity that Christ does that). And among THEM (referring back to those whom were bought) are some who deny Christ. Unless one can have faith yet deny Christ, then this is saying Jesus bought "them" and yet they don't have faith.





Yup.

But where is the statement in Scripture that states, "Christ died ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, SOLELY for those which will someday have faith?' Certainly He died for those who will have faith, no one remotely challenges that, but doesn't Scripture so often, verbatim say that Christ died for all people? And that those given faith will apprehend it and thus benefit from it?



@brightfame52


Actually there are other Scriptures that indicate that some who reject Christ were bought by the blood of Christ. For example, Hebrew 10:29 " How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?" He was sanctified.... he has trampled underfoot the Christ... he has profaned the BLOOD (doesn't that mean the Cross?) but clearly is not saved but is "punished." He was sanctified by the BLOOD of the Son of God... but will be PUNISHED.





.

Jesus was specific about who He died for in Jn 10:11,15. The word specific has as an synonym , alone, only and

having a special application, bearing, or reference; specifying, explicit, or definite:to state one's specific purpose.
specified, precise, or particular:a specific sum of money.
peculiar or proper to somebody or something, as qualities, characteristics, effects, etc.:His specific problems got him into trouble.
of a special or particular kind.

So Christ being specific and Paul likewise being specific Eph 5:25 is suffice to make the point of only. You can argue it all you want, its definite atonement.

 

[Josiah]

Jesus was specific about who He died for in Jn 10:11,15. The word specific has as an synonym , alone, only

@brightfame52

No, it's not. If I posted, "Chevrolet makes cars" that does not mean "ONLY Chevrolet makes cars." If I posted "Men may vote in the USA" that does not prove that ONLY men may vote in the USA.

Nowhere in John 10 is it states, "Jesus did not die for all but ONLY for some unknown few." The "not" and "only" - essential for your view - never are stated.

I've already submitted two verses that speak of those "bought" by the Blood that did not have faith.

And we have all the following:

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. ​

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.

And nowhere can be found even one verse that states, "No, Jesus did not die for all but only for some unknown few." Not one verse that says "ONLY" in this regard at all. Yes, of course, He died for the Elect and for blonde-hair persons and for males and for Americans - no one disputes that since they all fall under "all persons" but nowhere is it ever stated "ONLY" for tall people or guys over 15 years old or any other limitation. Without the "ONLY" the ONLY point is not made. Again, if it was states "America is a country" that does not prove that ONLY America is a country. That's a logical fallacy.

Eph 5:25 is suffice to make the point of only.

Here's the verse: Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.

No one remotely disagrees or disputes this verse.

If I said "I love my wife" that doesn't prove ergo you don't love your wife.

And obviously, it doesn't remotely confirm your point. Nowhere does it say "Jesus did not die for all people but ONLY for some unknown few.' The essential word of your view mandates the word "ONLY" which is obviously missing here. And everywhere. No one disputes that He died for the church. Nor would I deny that He died for men or blondes or skinny people or Australians or college graduates or Presbyterians. But the verse you claim "suffices" to prove Jesus did not die for all does not state that, does not state an, "ONLY" any subgroup of "all." According to your logic, if I said the USA is a country, that would prove that Canada is not. See the logical fallacy?



.

 

[1689Dave]

I recently got SXM radio and was listening to Family Talk (a Christian station). I used to understand Calvanism as sound theology but never considered myself one, but this host had me thinking. He mentioned Calvinist and refuted the claim that Jesus only died for the sins of the elect.
Jesus in fact died for everyone's sin HOWEVER any individual can choose to reject His atonement if they wish and in doing so remain condemned to die the second death.
God wills that all be saved.
How then can we harmonize free will with the will of God?
I don't believe works save, I believe works are evidence of faith and that these works are charity (God being the sole witness to them).
Fruits of the Spirit or gifts of the Spirit have nothing to do with works, they are God given attributes for his elected servants.
Thoughts?

Follow Luther. He nailed it in his irrefutable book The Bondage of the Will. It's either that or the heresy of Pelagianism.

 

[Josiah]

Follow Luther. He nailed it in his irrefutable book The Bondage of the Will.

Never once in it teaching that Jesus did NOT die for all people but ONLY for some unknown few.


.

 

[1689Dave]

Never once in it teaching that Jesus did NOT die for all people but ONLY for some unknown few.


.

Remember he excluded the Pharisees in his audience from salvation because he did not pay for their sins. They could not believe just as most others cannot.

 

[1689Dave]

“And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.” John 11:49–52 (KJV 1900)

 

[brightfame52]

“And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.” John 11:49–52 (KJV 1900)

Right, His death was limited to the gathering in of the Children of God, be they among the jewish nation first, then those of the gentile world. So we will know specifically for whom He died by whom He gathers into one ! Thats the Church Eph 1:10

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

All things here is all the members of His Body the church. Sometimes the scripture refers to the chosen as things as in 1 Cor 1:27-28

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

 

[brightfame52]

Christ death was limited to them whose sins by His death, He took away

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Rom 11:27

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jn 1:29

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

The OT Sacrifices couldnt do it, but His sacrifice did take away the sins of the people

Heb 10:4,11

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

Now since there will be some whom will undergo Gods wrath for their sins Eph 5:6

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience

Its proof evidence Christ didnt die for them to take away their sins !

 

[MoreCoffee]

Christ death was limited to them whose sins by His death, He took away

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Rom 11:27

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jn 1:29

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

The OT Sacrifices couldnt do it, but His sacrifice did take away the sins of the people

Heb 10:4,11

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

Now since there will be some whom will undergo Gods wrath for their sins Eph 5:6

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience

Its proof evidence Christ didnt die for them to take away their sins !

Not a word in any of the passages you've quoted says that Christ died "for the elect alone". Not one passage teaches that Christ's intention was to take away only the sins of the elect. And there's a world of difference between "Behold the Lamb of God, behold he who takes away the sin of the world" and "Christ died for the elect alone".

 

[brightfame52]

morecoffee

Not a word in any of the passages you've quoted says that Christ died "for the elect alone".

It doesnt have to be. Those Christ died for their sins have been taken away by His death for them.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ died only for them who by His death He redeemed them from the penalty of sin, which is death. Now the wages of sin or the penalty of sin is death Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Also Paul wrote 1 Cor 15:56

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

But now through Jesus Christ and His Redemptive Death, He cancelled out the penalty of sin, the sin debt has been paid in full, BY HIS DEATH !

We read Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood [Death]he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

", but by his own blood He obtained eternal redemption for us." Us is those He died for, shed His Blood for. Now He for them provides Eternal Redemption. The word redemption is the greek word lytrōsis and means in our verse:

1. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

Because Christs death/blood paid the ransom, His Blood, those for whom it was paid must as a matter of Justice, be discharged from the penalty of their sins, which is death.

See Christ was made to bear the penalty when He was made sin [a sin offering] for their sins 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

God made Him for them He died for a sin offering, charging Him, or Imputing to Him all their sins:

the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: and He for them underwent the penalty so much so,

God being totally satisfied with His Blood, will not impute, charge them with sin 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Now God doesnt impute their sins unto them simply because Christ by His Own Blood had purchased their eternal redemption from the penalty of sin, having satisfied the debt owed by Death, by Blood.

So unless we believe in universalism which is a heresy saying all without exception have been redeemed, the only other alternatives are to submit to the teaching of limited atonement or deny the eternal redemption by the Blood of Christ, for all those He died for, which are His Elect, Sheep. If we deny and insist that people Christ shed His blood for shall still die in their sins and go into the second death, thats a indication of unbelief in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ.

 

[Josiah]

Christ died only for them who by His death He redeemed them from the penalty of sin, which is death.

Yet, you are persistent in proving you have NOTHING from Scripture that states that.


Here are just some of the Scriptures that clearly, boldly, undeniably, verbatim, in black-and-white words the Holy Spirit put on the page that state Jesus died for all people.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. ​

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.

And many more stating the same thing.


And here are the ones you and Dave have presented that prove all the above are wrong, all the Scriptures that state "No, Jesus did NOT die for all but ONLY for some unknown few."


Crickets.

Nothing.



Yes, you have shown that He died for the Elect and for those with faith - which no one denies, but nowhere is the ONLY on which the entirety of your position depends and proclaims. Yes, you can show Scriptures that state that ONLY those with faith apprehend/apply the benefits of the Cross as everyone here agrees. But nothing that says "He died not for all people but ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, SOLELY for the Elect and/or those who eventually will have faith." Thus, as you persistently keep choosing to undeniably prove, you have NOTHING in Scripture that supports the Calvinist invention of "Jesus did NOT die for all but ONLY for some unknown few" (LImited Atonement).

 

[1689Dave]

Yet, you are persistent is proving you have NOTHING from Scripture that states that.

Here are just some of the Scriptures that clearly, boldly, undeniably, verbatim, in black-and-white words the Holy Spirit put on the page that state Jesus died for all people.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. ​

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.

And many more stating the same thing.


And here are the ones you and Dave have presented that prove all the above are wrong, all the Scriptures that state "No, Jesus did NOT die for all but ONLY for some unknown few."


Crickets.

Nothing.



Yes, you have shown that He died for the Elect and for those with faith - which no one denies, but nowhere is the ONLY on which the entirety of your position depends and proclaims. Yes, you can show Scriptures that state that ONLY those with faith apprehend/apply the benefits of the Cross as everyone here agrees. But nothing that says "He died not for all people but ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, SOLELY for the Elect and/or those who eventually will have faith." Thus, as you persistently keep choosing to undeniably prove, you have NOTHING in Scripture that supports the Calvinist invention of "Jesus did NOT die for all but ONLY for some unknown few" (LImited Atonement).

If he paid for everyone's sins, why arent they saved? Isn't unbelief a sin?

 

[brightfame52]

Yet, you are persistent is proving you have NOTHING from Scripture that states that.

Here are just some of the Scriptures that clearly, boldly, undeniably, verbatim, in black-and-white words the Holy Spirit put on the page that state Jesus died for all people.

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. ​

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.

And many more stating the same thing.


And here are the ones you and Dave have presented that prove all the above are wrong, all the Scriptures that state "No, Jesus did NOT die for all but ONLY for some unknown few."


Crickets.

Nothing.



Yes, you have shown that He died for the Elect and for those with faith - which no one denies, but nowhere is the ONLY on which the entirety of your position depends and proclaims. Yes, you can show Scriptures that state that ONLY those with faith apprehend/apply the benefits of the Cross as everyone here agrees. But nothing that says "He died not for all people but ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, SOLELY for the Elect and/or those who eventually will have faith." Thus, as you persistently keep choosing to undeniably prove, you have NOTHING in Scripture that supports the Calvinist invention of "Jesus did NOT die for all but ONLY for some unknown few" (LImited Atonement).

Again, you fail to understand the efficaciousness of Christs death, which is not good. All for whom Christ died He redeemed from the penalty of sin. I proved that. So is all without exception redeemed from the penalty of sin ? Nope So duh He didnt die for everyone without exception but for all who are redeemed from the penalty of sin.

 

[Josiah]

If he paid for everyone's sins, why arent they saved?

Again, yet again, still another time, we've all lost count of how often we have conveyed this to you, because the dead ALONE doesn't save anyone, personal justification ALSO, ADDITIONALLY is needed.

The Bible states that Jesus died for all. It does not say that faith is given to all. So while Jesus' death offers to all full atonement, if that is not embraced/apprehended/applied via faith to the individual, then there is no personal justification. You INSIST in the heresy that the Cross ITSELF personally justifies all, it's unbiblical, it's heresy. John 3:16 does not say what you insist it does, it does NOT state, "For God loved some unknown few people (probably not you) that He gave Jesus to some unknown few (odds are, not you) that all of them have eterlasting life whether they have faith or spit in His faith and denounce Him, couldn't matter less cuz faith don't matter for anything." Try reading what Jesus actually said - not correcting Him by inserting a lot of heretical things He never said, stop putting a lot of "NOT" into it so as to repudiate what He actually said.

The reality that not everyone has personal justifiction is NOT because the Bible is wrong or lying with it SO often, so obviously, so clearly, verbatim, in black-and-white words my four-year-old can read and understand when it STATES "Jesus died for everyone." It's true because the Bible ALSO says without faith, there is no justification.

But you just don't care. IF you read anything posted to you, you just don't care. Accountability is rejected by you. You can't be wrong. Not even when Jesus SO often states the EXACT OPPOSITE of your view. Pur Jesus.

All for whom Christ died He redeemed from the penalty of sin. I proved that.

Friend you proved the exact opposite.
+ You proved you have not one verse that states that "All for whom Christ died are personally justified."
+ You proved you have not one verse that states, "Jesus did not die for all but only for some unknown few."

I read your many quotes - all of them - not one remotely states what you do. You keep ADDING your view, the "not" and "only" and so on, the things on which your view entirely depends, but those aren't there as you've (more than once) proved.



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