Bible Study on Universal Atonement

[Josiah]

Universal Atonement, the usual theological name for the echo of Scriptures that state Jesus died for all, for everyone, for all people.


Just some of the Scriptures that state this:

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.​

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all"

1 Timothy 2:6 "Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.

There are no Scriptures that state, "Jesus did not die for all people but only for some unknown few."


Notes:


1. Universal Atonement does NOT mean that ergo all people have faith - and thus personal justification. There are those for whom Christ died that nonetheless are not saved (justified - narrow sense) since they don't have faith. Universal Atonement embraces that Christ died for all, not that all have faith.


2. Universal Atonement does NOT hold that salvation ONLY depends on the Cross (so that if Christ died for all, all are saved - that's called Universalism, an entirely different and heretical position). Personal faith is also essential (another doctrine). And Universal Atonement does NOT hold that faith is something the dead, unregenerate, atheistic sinner creates in self and gives to self (that too is another doctrine, a heretical one). Universal Atonement holds that Christ died for all, for everyone.


3. Some latter-day radical Calvinists renounced all the Scriptures that specifically verbatim state Universal Atonement, invented the doctrine of LIMITED Atonement, that Christ did NOT die for all, for everyone, for all people.... but ONLY for some unknown few. However, they have not one verse that states that and must reject MANY that specifically state the exact opposite of their view.


4. Universal Atonement is Gospel. Without it, NO ONE could even guess as to whether Jesus died for THEM (in Limited Atonement, He probably did not). We KNOW the Gospel is for us, we KNOW the Cross applies to us for one and only one reason: It applies to ALL, to EVERYONE. If it just some select, unknown FEW then no one CAN know if it applies to them, if it is for them, because there is no list of names in the Bible about who Christ died for and those He did not. Universal Atonement means we can present the Gospel to all because it applies to all, we don't have to add after John 3:16, "But this probably doesn't mean you, He probably wasn't given for you." The Gospel indeed rests on this for without this we are left with a "terror of the conscience" never knowing if God has grace, mercy, forgiveness, the Christ, the Cross FOR ME. Otherwise, the whole point of Christianity falls.... it's probably not even available or offered to ME.




.

 

[1689Dave]

Universal Atonement, the usual theological name for the echo of Scriptures that state Jesus died for all, for everyone, for all people.


Just some of the Scriptures that state this:

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.​

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all"

1 Timothy 2:6 "Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.

There are no Scriptures that state, "Jesus did not die for all people but only for some unknown few."


Notes:


1. Universal Atonement does NOT mean that ergo all people have faith - and thus personal justification. There are those for whom Christ died that nonetheless are not saved (justified - narrow sense) since they don't have faith. Universal Atonement embraces that Christ died for all, not that all have faith.


2. Universal Atonement does NOT hold that salvation ONLY depends on the Cross (so that if Christ died for all, all are saved - that's called Universalism, an entirely different and heretical position). Personal faith is also essential (another doctrine). And Universal Atonement does NOT hold that faith is something the dead, unregenerate, atheistic sinner creates in self and gives to self (that too is another doctrine, a heretical one). Universal Atonement holds that Christ died for all, for everyone.


3. Some latter-day radical Calvinists renounced all the Scriptures that specifically verbatim state Universal Atonement, invented the doctrine of LIMITED Atonement, that Christ did NOT die for all, for everyone, for all people.... but ONLY for some unknown few. However, they have not one verse that states that and must reject MANY that specifically state the exact opposite of their view.


4. Universal Atonement is Gospel. Without it, NO ONE could even guess as to whether Jesus died for THEM (in Limited Atonement, He probably did not). We KNOW the Gospel is for us, we KNOW the Cross applies to us for one and only one reason: It applies to ALL, to EVERYONE. If it just some select, unknown FEW then no one CAN know if it applies to them, if it is for them, because there is no list of names in the Bible about who Christ died for and those He did not. Universal Atonement means we can present the Gospel to all because it applies to all, we don't have to add after John 3:16, "But this probably doesn't mean you, He probably wasn't given for you." The Gospel indeed rests on this for without this we are left with a "terror of the conscience" never knowing if God has grace, mercy, forgiveness, the Christ, the Cross FOR ME. Otherwise, the whole point of Christianity falls.... it's probably not even available or offered to ME.




.

Please let others study this thread unimpeded. You remind me of the Russian Jamming Stations that hindered freedom radio during the Coldwar.

 

[Albion]

Please let others study this thread unimpeded.

By reading ONLY your own posts, you mean.

 

[1689Dave]

By reading ONLY your own posts, you mean.

You should write and post articles. Eventually, they end up in search engines and cover the world. I come across some of my aged posts on other forums when searching for new material. It's a great chance to help fulfill the great commission.

 

[prism]

Whether or not universal atonement is true or not is a moot issue, because even if Christ died for all, not all are saved.

 

[1689Dave]

Whether or not universal atonement is true or not is a moot issue, because even if Christ died for all, not all are saved.

If you recall. Jesus said all that the Father gives to me will come to me. He did not waste his blood on those God did not give to him. How do you know you are saved? It's because you believe. If you were not one of the elect, you would be like those who think the gospel is foolishness. Rejoice, you believe because you are saved.

 

[Lamb]

Remember there is no debating in this section of the site!

 

[1689Dave]

Remember there is no debating in this section of the site!

That is why I chose to post here. Thanks for watching over this issue.

 

[1689Dave]

Here's the original post. This is a no-debate section.

Part 1: The Doctrine of Limited Atonement (8): Scriptural Proofs

Outline and Proofs from the Bible

The overwhelming evidence from Scripture is that Christ came to save a very definite number of people (those given to him by the Father). In this regard, see the following texts:

Matt. 1:21 “And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Matt. 20:28 “… just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

Matt. 26:28 “For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

John 10:11, 15 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.”

Acts 13:48 “Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.”

Acts 20:28 “Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.”

Rom. 8:32-34 “He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.”

Eph. 5:25-27 “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it, that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish.”

Heb. 2:17 “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.”

Heb. 9:15, 28 “And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”

Rev. 5:9 “And they sang a new song, saying: You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals; for You were slain, and have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.”

The following survey may help you in tracing the purpose and scope of Christ’s saving work.

1. The Bible describes the purpose of Christ’s work as the full salvation of his people (that is, actual salvation, not just the possibility of it):

The Bible tells us that Christ came to actually save sinners, not to allow the success of His work to be determined by sinners.

Matt. 1:21 “And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Luke 19:10 “…for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

II Cor. 5:21 “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

I Peter 3:18 “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit.”

Gal. 1:3-4 “Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father.”

I Tim. 1:15 “This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.”

Titus 2:14 “…who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.”

The death of Christ actually reconciles sinners to God (remember that in each of these passages the author is writing to the Church of true believers).

Romans 5:10 “For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.”

II Cor. 5:18-21 “Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

Eph. 2:15-18 “…having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.”

Col. 1:20-22 “And by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and irreproachable in His sight ….”

Heb. 2:17 “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.”

The death of Christ actually justifies the believer because His shed blood was the propitiation for sin and was acceptable to God. Redemption is the actual setting free from the bondage of sin by the blood of Christ to serve the living God.

Rom. 3:24-25 “…being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth to be a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed.”

Rom. 5:8-9 “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.”

Rom. 5:18 “Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.”

I Cor. 1:30 “But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God – and righteousness and sanctification and redemption.”

Gal. 2:16 “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

Gal. 3:13 “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree).”

Gal. 4:4-5 “But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.”

Col. 1:13-14 “He has delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.”

Heb. 9:12 “Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.”

Heb. 10:14 “For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.”

I Pet. 1:18-19 “Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.”

I Pet. 2:24 “Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness – by whose stripes you were healed.”

I Jn. 1:7 “But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”

 

[1689Dave]

Here's the original post. This is a non-debate section. See Part 1 just above.

Part 2: Regeneration by the Holy Spirit is necessary for us to have true faith, and thereby to be saved. The gift of the Holy Spirit to regenerate and sanctify is actually given to all whom Christ died for.

John 3:3 “Jesus answered and said to him, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Acts 16:14 “Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.”

Eph. 1:13, 14 “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.”

Titus 3:5, 6 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior.”

I Cor. 1:30 “But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God – and righteousness and sanctification and redemption.”

II Thess. 2:13 “But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.”

Heb. 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”

I Pet. 1:2 “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.”

2. There are a number of Bible passages that give us a glimpse of the purpose of Christ in fulfilling the covenant with His Father made before the foundation of the world. In summary, Jesus laid down His life for those whom the Father had “given” to Him. Read John 6:35-40 and John 17 carefully.

3. Jesus is conscious of laying down His life for “His sheep.” Those who are not believers are not “His sheep” (Jn. 10:26).

John 10:24-29 “Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.” (see also John 10:11,14-18 and Matthew 25:31-46)

3. In the High Priestly prayer of Christ, Jesus does not pray for the world in general, but for those who were given to him by his Father.

John 17:2, 6, 9, 11, 12, 24 “As You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.”

4. Christ “justified” those for whom He died (Rom. 5:9). If Christ bore the sins of all men without exception, then all men are justified. If all men are justified, then they receive Christ by faith and are at peace with God (Rom. 5:1). All who are justified are likewise glorified (Rom. 8:30). It is clear from the Bible as well as from the world in which we live that many live and die at enmity with God and are lost eternally. If Christ died for all, then all would be justified, and none would be lost. We see from the Bible and our world that this is not true.

​

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Blog post content is taken from Rev. Paul Treick’s book, Faith of Our Fathers, Living Still: A Study of the Five Points of Calvinism, available for purchase. It is posted with the gracious permission of the author. The Doctrine of Limited Atonement (8): Scriptural Proofs - Heidelberg Seminary

 

[Josiah]

We can easily compare the verses Dave gave for Limited Atonement and see if they state "Jesus did not die for all but only for some unknown few" and then compare them to the ones I submitted here and see if they state "Jesus died for all people, for everyone, for the world."

Each can very easily determine that for themselves.



.

 

[Josiah]

Whether or not universal atonement is true or not is a moot issue, because even if Christ died for all, not all are saved.

I think it DOES matter.

As I shared in the opening post....

4. Universal Atonement is Gospel. Without it, NO ONE could even guess as to whether Jesus died for THEM (in Limited Atonement, He probably did not). In Universal Atonement, we KNOW the Gospel is for us, we KNOW the Cross applies to us for one and only one reason: It applies to ALL, to EVERYONE. If Limited Atonement is true then it's just some select, unknown FEW so no one CAN know if it applies to them, if it is for them, because there is no list of names in the Bible about who Christ died for and those He did not. Universal Atonement means we can present the Gospel to all because it applies to all, we don't have to add after John 3:16, "But this probably doesn't mean you, He probably wasn't given for you." The Gospel indeed rests on this for without this we are left with a "terror of the conscience" never knowing if God has grace, mercy, forgiveness, the Christ, the Cross FOR ME. Otherwise, the whole point of Christianity falls.... it's probably not even available or offered to ME.



.

 

[1689Dave]

We can easily compare the verses Dave gave for Limited Atonement and see if they state "Jesus did not die for all but only for some unknown few" and then compare them to the ones I submitted here and see if they state "Jesus died for all people, for everyone, for the world."

Each can very easily determine that for themselves.



.

This is a NON-DEBATE section. I wish I would have posted it in a debate section so we could compare notes. Any suggestions?

 

[1689Dave]

Whether or not universal atonement is true or not is a moot issue, because even if Christ died for all, not all are saved.

Thanks, Prism for your interest in this. Notice that Jesus told the Pharisees the reason they could not believe is that he didn't die for them.

Jesus said: “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.” John 10:11 (KJV 1900)

Jesus then says: “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” John 10:26 (KJV 1900)

The fact that you have faith means Jesus paid for your sins on the cross. Notice the Pharisees could not believe because He didn't die for them

 

[prism]

If you recall. Jesus said all that the Father gives to me will come to me. He did not waste his blood on those God did not give to him. How do you know you are saved? It's because you believe. If you were not one of the elect, you would be like those who think the gospel is foolishness. Rejoice, you believe because you are saved.

Yes, I have come and have been transformed as a result, many profess (believe) but are not born again and continue in self deception. The call goes out to all but the elect have ears to hear…we don’t know beforehand who they are.

 

[prism]

I think it DOES matter.

As I shared in the opening post....

4. Universal Atonement is Gospel. Without it, NO ONE could even guess as to whether Jesus died for THEM (in Limited Atonement, He probably did not). In Universal Atonement, we KNOW the Gospel is for us, we KNOW the Cross applies to us for one and only one reason: It applies to ALL, to EVERYONE. If Limited Atonement is true then it's just some select, unknown FEW so no one CAN know if it applies to them, if it is for them, because there is no list of names in the Bible about who Christ died for and those He did not. Universal Atonement means we can present the Gospel to all because it applies to all, we don't have to add after John 3:16, "But this probably doesn't mean you, He probably wasn't given for you." The Gospel indeed rests on this for without this we are left with a "terror of the conscience" never knowing if God has grace, mercy, forgiveness, the Christ, the Cross FOR ME. Otherwise, the whole point of Christianity falls.... it's probably not even available or offered to ME.



.

All this would be mute if our salvation is totally unearned grace and a verse like this holds true…

Ephesians 1:4 KJV
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[Lamb]

Locking this thread because there is no debate and Josiah is the OP.