Gifts of the Holy Ghost

[Lees]

Many believe the gifts of the Holy Ghost have ceased. That God no longer gives these gifts.

I believe all the gifts listed in the Bible are still present in the Church, whether or not they are acknowledged and used.

Sort of like belief in God. One can disbelieve in God. But it doesn't change God. One can reject the gifts of the Holy Ghost, but it doesn't stop their existance and their function.

(Eph. 4:7-8) (Rom. 11:29) God gave us gifts. He doesn't change His mind concerning them.

Lees

 

[1689Dave]

Many believe the gifts of the Holy Ghost have ceased. That God no longer gives these gifts.

I believe all the gifts listed in the Bible are still present in the Church, whether or not they are acknowledged and used.

Sort of like belief in God. One can disbelieve in God. But it doesn't change God. One can reject the gifts of the Holy Ghost, but it doesn't stop their existence and their function.

(Eph. 4:7-8) (Rom. 11:29) God gave us gifts. He doesn't change His mind concerning them.

Lees

Only the Apostles had the gifts. And those they laid their hands on. Paul placed all of his friends on medicine in the Epistles because the gifts had been withdrawn by then, as he said. Where are they today with all the cameras and YouTube? Only ministry gifts remain.

 

[Albion]

Many believe the gifts of the Holy Ghost have ceased. That God no longer gives these gifts.

I don't know who you have in mind when saying "many," but if you are thinking of people who are called "cessationists" by charismatic and Pentecostal Christians, that's not a correct description of what they believe.

Cessationists believe that the gifts ceased to continuously be a part of the life of the church at a point in history, but not that there were no instances at all of such gifting later in history or in our own times.

The importance of this--if it actually is important--is to deny the claim made by charismatics that the gifts, particularly of tongues, MUST be continuous because of these people's understanding of one Bible passage.

 

[1689Dave]

I don't know who you have in mind when saying "many," but if you are thinking of people who are called "cessationists" by charismatic and Pentecostal Christians, that's not a correct description of what they believe.

Cessationists believe that the gifts ceased to continuously be a part of the life of the church at a point in history, but not that there were no instances at all of such gifting later in history or in our own times.

The importance of this--if it actually is important--is to deny the claim made by charismatics that the gifts, particularly of tongues, MUST be continuous because of these people's understanding of one Bible passage.

The gifts (signs and wonders) proved the Apostles' authority. They ended with the Apostles. But the prayer of faith is available to all believers. It heals the sick in rare situations. But Paul used medicine in the Epistles when his gifts expired.

 

[Lees]

I don't know who you have in mind when saying "many," but if you are thinking of people who are called "cessationists" by charismatic and Pentecostal Christians, that's not a correct description of what they believe.

Cessationists believe that the gifts ceased to continuously be a part of the life of the church at a point in history, but not that there were no instances at all of such gifting later in history or in our own times.

The importance of this--if it actually is important--is to deny the claim made by charismatics that the gifts, particularly of tongues, MUST be continuous because of these people's understanding of one Bible passage.

Oh....so cessation doesn't really mean 'cessation'?

Where in Scripture is this belief based that 'the gifts ceased to continuously be a part of the life of the church'?

Why wouldn't it be important?

What one Bible passage are you talking about?

Lees

 

[Lees]

@Lamb

Please note my questions in post #(5).

Lees

 

[Albion]

The gifts (signs and wonders) proved the Apostles' authority. They ended with the Apostles.

Some people think that's the case, but it's difficult to argue categorically that there have been no instances of some of these gifts being manifested since then--along with plenty of bogus claims, to be sure. And we all know that God can gift someone if he chooses, no matter what the time period.

But the prayer of faith is available to all believers. It heals the sick in rare situations. But Paul used medicine in the Epistles when his gifts expired.

I wasn't speaking of the power of prayer.

 

[Lees]

The gifts (signs and wonders) proved the Apostles' authority. They ended with the Apostles. But the prayer of faith is available to all believers. It heals the sick in rare situations. But Paul used medicine in the Epistles when his gifts expired.

Where in Scripture do you support what you just said?

Lees

 

[Lees]

@Lamb

Please note my question in post #(8)

Lees

 

[Lees]

Only the Apostles had the gifts. And those they laid their hands on. Paul placed all of his friends on medicine in the Epistles because the gifts had been withdrawn by then, as he said. Where are they today with all the cameras and YouTube? Only ministry gifts remain.

Where do you support this statement in Scripture that only the Apostles had the gifts?

Where do you support this statement in Scritpure that the gifts had been withdrawn?

Lees

 

[Lees]

@Lamb

Please note my questions in post #(10).

Lees

 

[1689Dave]

Where do you support this statement in Scripture that only the Apostles had the gifts?

Where do you support this statement in Scritpure that the gifts had been withdrawn?

Lees

“Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.” 2 Corinthians 12:12 (KJV 1900)

Challenge: Find the signs and wonders in Acts performed by anyone other than an Apostle. Or anyone an Apostle did not lay hands on. The signs and wonders confirmed that one was an Apostle commissioned by Christ. In the case of Ananias, it says Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit. But only Christ or an Apostle could minister the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[1689Dave]

Where in Scripture do you support what you just said?

Lees

Can you find the gifts in use after Paul began giving his friends medicine in the Epistles instead of healing them?

 

[1689Dave]

Some people think that's the case, but it's difficult to argue categorically that there have been no instances of some of these gifts being manifested since then--along with plenty of bogus claims, to be sure. And we all know that God can gift someone if he chooses, no matter what the time period.


I wasn't speaking of the power of prayer.

I think many are healed psychosomatically when they repent from the sin that caused their illness. Placebos show this to happen.

 

[Lees]

“Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.” 2 Corinthians 12:12 (KJV 1900)

Challenge: Find the signs and wonders in Acts performed by anyone other than an Apostle. Or anyone an Apostle did not lay hands on. The signs and wonders confirmed that one was an Apostle commissioned by Christ. In the case of Ananias, it says Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit. But only Christ or an Apostle could minister the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Again, my questions in post #(10).

Where do you support your statement in Scripture that only the apostles had the gifts of the Holy Ghost?

Where do you support your statement in Scripture that the gifts have been withdrawn?

Lees

 

[Lees]

@Lamb

Please note my repeat of questions in post #(15).

Lees

 

[Lees]

Can you find the gifts in use after Paul began giving his friends medicine in the Epistles instead of healing them?

Where in Scripture can you support what you just said? I find nothing in Scripture to suggest the gifts of the Holy Ghost have been removed just because Paul offered some medical advice.

Do you ever pray for a loved one to be healed by God? And if God doesn't heal them, does that mean you shouldn't have prayed for it?

Where in Scripture do you combine 'signs and wonders' with the 'gifts of the Holy Ghost' as the same?


Lees

 

[Lees]

@Lamb

Please note my questions in post #(17).

Lees

 

[Albion]

“Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.” 2 Corinthians 12:12 (KJV 1900)

Challenge: Find the signs and wonders in Acts performed by anyone other than an Apostle.

The signs are associated with the Apostles as you indicated. And that's not all. That is just one example of things pertaining to the Apostles, the first clergy of the Christian church, which were believed in the first century to be authoritative precisely because they had been deliberately passed on by the Apostles to their successors and from them to later generations.

 

[Lees]

The signs are associated with the Apostles as you indicated. And that's not all. That is just one example of things pertaining to the Apostles, the first clergy of the Christian church, which were believed in the first century to be authoritative precisely because they had been deliberately passed on by the Apostles to their successors and from them to later generations.

'Signs and Wonders' are not the same as the 'Gifts of the Holy Ghost'. Both are miraculous, yes. Their purpose is different.

'Signs and Wonders' are for the purpose of grabbing the attention of others and verifying the message of the one doing them. (Deut. 4:34) (Neh. 9:10) (Acts 2:22) (Acts 2:43) (2 Cor. 12:12) These are connected to a great movement from God such as the deliverance of Israel from Egypt or the coming of Messiah, Jesus Christ, or the establishment of the Church, or great revivals.

'Gifts of the Holy Ghost' are for the purpose of ministry to the Body Of Christ, for it's health, and function, and edification. (1 Cor. 12:4-14)

So, every Christian has a gift from the Holy Ghost. (1 Cor. 12:1-31) Just because he cannot perform 'signs and wonders' doesn't mean he has no gift of the Holy Ghost. Just because other Christians exercise their gift at a higher level than other Christians does not mean that other Christians have no gift. Just because a church denies the gifts of the Holy Spirit, does not mean the Christians in that church don't have them. (1 Cor. 12:11-12)

Lees