Was Elijah taken up into heaven?

NathanH83

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Or was Elijah taken down into the lower parts of the Earth in Abraham’s bosom, where he was kept in prisons with the disobedient in Noah’s day, and didn’t escape until Jesus preached the gospel to the spirits in prison?



“And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.”
-2 Kings 2:1 (NKJV)

“Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.”
-2 Kings 2:11 (NKJV)
 
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Lees

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Or was Elijah taken down into the lower parts of the Earth in Abraham’s bosom, where he was kept in prisons with the disobedient in Noah’s day, and didn’t escape until Jesus preached the gospel to the spirits in prison?



“And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.”
-2 Kings 2:1 (NKJV)

“Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.”
-2 Kings 2:11 (NKJV)

Why do you ask? The Scriptures you give are clear.

What's the problem?

Lees
 

NathanH83

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Why do you ask? The Scriptures you give are clear.

What's the problem?

Lees

Not clear enough for some people on this forum.
 

Albion

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Or was Elijah taken down into the lower parts of the Earth in Abraham’s bosom, where he was kept in prisons with the disobedient in Noah’s day, and didn’t escape until Jesus preached the gospel to the spirits in prison?
It's quite a misunderstanding to think that Elijah was taken to where the lost souls were or that Jesus went there after the Crucifixion to address the souls of the damned.
 
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NathanH83

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It's quite a misunderstanding to think that Elijah was taken to where the lost souls were or that Jesus went there after the Crucifixion to address the souls of the damned.

Come again?
 

Odë:hgöd

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2Kings 2:11 . . And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that,
behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both
asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

The Hebrew word translated "heaven" is shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim); a very
common word throughout the Old Testament for sky, for example:


Gen 1:1 . . In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

The heavens speak of all that can be seen when looking up with either the naked
eye or a telescope-- not only the clouds; but the stars too; for example:


Gen 15:5 . . And he brought him forth abroad, and said: Look now toward
heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them

I don't think it's safe to insist that Elijah's chariot flew all the way to God's abode.
It's more likely that the phenomenon was just Elijah's transportation to wherever
it is that Enoch was taken.


Gen 5:24 . . Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him
away.

* In my opinion, if there ever was someone in the Old Testament that God would've
liked to bring home to His abode, it was Abraham. He's one of the few people in the
Old Testament actually said to be one of God's buddies. (isa 41:8) But even as
favored a man as he was, Abe ended up in the same afterlife sphere as the rich
man of Luke 16:19-31.
_
 

NathanH83

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It's quite a misunderstanding to think that Elijah was taken to where the lost souls were or that Jesus went there after the Crucifixion to address the souls of the damned.

Are you saying that Jesus DIDN’T preach to those who had formerly been disobedient in Noah’s day?
 

Prepared

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Or was Elijah taken down into the lower parts of the Earth in Abraham’s bosom, where he was kept in prisons with the disobedient in Noah’s day, and didn’t escape until Jesus preached the gospel to the spirits in prison?



“And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.”
-2 Kings 2:1 (NKJV)

“Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.”
-2 Kings 2:11 (NKJV)

Considering that there is more than one heaven - Paul said he was taken to the third heaven. Most likely he was taken to a heaven.

Scripture mentions heavens in the plural form often.

One thing is for sure - scripture states flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven - so wherever Elijah was taken it was his spirit and not his flesh body - considering he was taken to one of the heavens.

And no Elijah wasn't taken to the lower parts - the lower parts represent the lost / Elijah was a prophet a man of God.
 

Lamb

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One thing is for sure - scripture states flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven - so wherever Elijah was taken it was his spirit and not his flesh body - considering he was taken to one of the heavens.

Jesus is man and God and yet HE ascended into heaven (flesh and blood).
 

Prepared

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Jesus is man and God and yet HE ascended into heaven (flesh and blood).
He ascended and they seen him in a spirit form. After all he could walk through walls.

Philippians 3:20-21 speaks of us having glorified bodies like Christ

1st Corinthians 15:42-44 speaks of us being in spiritual bodies

1 John 3:2 says we will be like him and we will see him as he truly is.

So those who feel that Christ is flesh and blood in heaven doesn't believe scripture when it says flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. And actually making the man of God out of a lie.

He is not flesh and blood in heaven - I don't know what he looks like - I just know one will see the brightness of his coming and one will see him as he truly is whatever form it may be.
 

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He ascended and they seen him in a spirit form. After all he could walk through walls.

Philippians 3:20-21 speaks of us having glorified bodies like Christ

1st Corinthians 15:42-44 speaks of us being in spiritual bodies

1 John 3:2 says we will be like him and we will see him as he truly is.

So those who feel that Christ is flesh and blood in heaven doesn't believe scripture when it says flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. And actually making God out of a lie.

He is not flesh and blood in heaven - I don't know what he looks like - I just know one will see the brightness of his coming and one will see him as he truly is whatever form it may be.

So you believe Jesus is not man anymore?
 

Prepared

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So you believe Jesus is not man anymore?

A man with an earthly body - no I do not believe he has a body as humans do. I believe he can have a physical form but what that physical form is I don't know.

I forgot to mention after his resurrection Jesus was standing right there with them and they didn't know who he was.



jesus-go-up-to-heaven-in-spirit-form-or-fleshly-since-flesh-and-blood-cannot-enter-heaven/
 

Albion

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Philippians 3:20-21 speaks of us having glorified bodies like Christ
It does--Glorified versions of our present bodies, not spirits that look like humans.
He ascended and they seen him in a spirit form. After all he could walk through walls.
No, Jesus went to some trouble to prove that it was indeed him with the same body that had been crucified. Remember that he made Thomas--who initially took the same view that you are explaining--place his finger into the wounds that body had suffered on the cross, the nail holes in his wrists and the wound caused by the soldier's lance.

Doing so, Thomas changed his mind and proclaimed him his Lord! But of course you and I have the Bible account which teaches that it was Jesus' same body that rose from the grave.

The women who went to that tomb on Easter morning found it empty, and an angel announced to them that He wasn't there! Had Jesus in the days following the crucifixion only been a spirit manifesting as a human, none of this would be the case. Were your theory correct, a corpse WOULD have been there for the women to anoint as was their intention (again, according to the Bible).
I forgot to mention after his resurrection Jesus was standing right there with them and they didn't know who he was.
Initially so, but only at first. And remember also that, according to the Bible account, Mary mistook him for the gardener, not a ghost!
 
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Prepared

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It does--Glorified versions of our present bodies, not spirits that look like humans.

No, Jesus went to some trouble to prove that it was indeed him with the same body that had been crucified. Remember that he made Thomas--who initially took the same view that you are explaining--place his finger into the wounds that body had suffered on the cross, the nail holes in his wrists and the wound caused by the soldier's lance.

Doing so, Thomas changed his mind and proclaimed him his Lord! But of course you and I have the Bible account which teaches that it was Jesus' same body that rose from the grave.

The women who went to that tomb on Easter morning found it empty, and an angel announced to them that He wasn't there! Had Jesus in the days following the crucifixion only been a spirit manifesting as a human, none of this would be the case. Were your theory correct, a corpse WOULD have been there for the women to anoint as was their intention (again, according to the Bible).

Initially so, but only at first. And remember also that, according to the Bible account, Mary mistook him for the gardener, not a ghost!
I can't say Jesus went through a lot trouble to prove to Thomas. I actually thought about mentioning Thomas sticking his hand in the wounds and decided not to. That doesn't prove whether Christ was flesh and blood when he ascended to heaven.

A corpse would have been there - that's putting limits on the power of God.

Well if you believe that flesh and blood is in heaven, that is a direct contradiction of what Paul said -therefore Paul must not be led by the spirit of Christ or at least some of his sayings.


Throughout my years I have heard ministers say that we have a *man* in heaven advocating for us and we'll say Jesus is flesh blood - then speak of Christ's glorified. And at another point in time give a sermon that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

My belief is as long as Jesus was on Earth he used a fleshly body when necessary and a spiritual body when necessary. That is how Jesus was able to appear without walking through the door or standing beside them and they not know him (spiritual form) - or how Jesus actually did as Thomas stated for proof or walk around Jerusalem for XX amount of days ( fleshly body). When he ascended to heaven it was his spiritual form. When you go back to the Old Testament He and the angels were able to appear as men.






I also list who believe Jesus is in a human body in heaven





This one says he has flesh and Bone but no blood - ( even those scripture uses the word flesh)



This one answers the question honestly the Bible isn't clear on what type of form Christ had at his ascension.


What is clear scripture says we will be like him / we will see him as he is ........ 1 John 3:2. ( Now that's saying we haven't seen him as he is)

GOD BLESS
 

Albion

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I can't say Jesus went through a lot trouble to prove to Thomas.
I agree with you on that. However, I wasn't referring there to just the incident with Thomas and the fingers in Christ's wounds.

Jesus also had an encounter with one of the women at the tomb, with two disciples that he walked alongside and talked to over the course of miles, and with the Apostles with whom he revealed himself in his glorified body in several different ways.

I did use the expression "went to some trouble" and we might say that none of these things was really "a lot of trouble" for Christ, but he did make it a point to reveal himself in a number of different ways to a number of different followers of his and did so over the course of hours. Indeed, he went on to reveal himself to several hundred witnesses during the next weeks that led up to the Ascension.

I actually thought about mentioning Thomas sticking his hand in the wounds and decided not to. That doesn't prove whether Christ was flesh and blood when he ascended to heaven.
Why not? Are ghosts made up of physical matter like flesh? And of course the main point was to show that the person--in the same body--whom Thomas was looking at was the same one that was crucified on the Cross.

Well if you believe that flesh and blood is in heaven, that is a direct contradiction of what Paul said -therefore Paul must not be led by the spirit of Christ or at least some of his sayings.


Throughout my years I have heard ministers say that we have a *man* in heaven advocating for us and we'll say Jesus is flesh blood - then speak of Christ's glorified. And at another point in time give a sermon that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
Christ's body is the only one and he is God, so that's an obvious exception. Paul and those ministers were teaching about the status of and prospects for humans--all of their listeners, that is. But when the expression, "flesh and blood," is referred to in Scripture, it customarily means "mere" flesh and blood. It's not a lesson in biology or something that necessarily is about the nature of Christ's body after the Resurrection.

Consider this verse, for example--

“Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." Matt 16:17

It's quite apparent that the reference there is to ordinary, unredeemed people and what they might have said about the issue.

My belief is as long as Jesus was on Earth he used a fleshly body when necessary and a spiritual body when necessary.
If you want to believe that, you will, but the Bible doesn't teach it and I cannot think of a single Christian denomination that teaches it. That should be meaningful to anyone who wonders what the truth of this matter is.
 
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