Does your church address racism?

[atpollard]

Does your church (congregation) address racism?

OK, so let’s discuss this question head on.

Strangely, the answer is “Yes and no”. I cannot remember EVER hearing a sermon about the “evils of racism”. On the other hand, I have heard several times that our congregation is a glimpse of what Heaven will look like.

The Pastor is Black, but not African American. He was born in the Caribbean and raised Moravian before serving in the US Army as part of the White House Band and later becoming a Pentecostal Pastor. The Church had a female Elder that was born in Germany and spoke English with a thick accent, another African American Deacon that was a retired Master Sergeant with the USMC and there was a white elder from a Reformed Baptist background and Italian-American heritage. Among the congregation were Hispanics and orientals creating a church body of almost every imaginable skin tone.

So racism was never discussed as a problem, but the Church was held up as a solution.

Hopefully that answers the OP question.

 

[Lees]

OK, so let’s discuss this question head on.

Strangely, the answer is “Yes and no”. I cannot remember EVER hearing a sermon about the “evils of racism”. On the other hand, I have heard several times that our congregation is a glimpse of what Heaven will look like.

The Pastor is Black, but not African American. He was born in the Caribbean and raised Moravian before serving in the US Army as part of the White House Band and later becoming a Pentecostal Pastor. The Church had a female Elder that was born in Germany and spoke English with a thick accent, another African American Deacon that was a retired Master Sergeant with the USMC and there was a white elder from a Reformed Baptist background and Italian-American heritage. Among the congregation were Hispanics and orientals creating a church body of almost every imaginable skin tone.

So racism was never discussed as a problem, but the Church was held up as a solution.

Hopefully that answers the OP question.

So your church is a mixture of all races. A glimpse of what Heaven will be like. Pictured as a solution to racism. But then you define racism as evil without giving a definition of racism.

What about an all black church, or all white church, or all Mexican church? Is that a problem? Are you saying those are not a picture of Heaven?

Lees

 

[tango]

So your church is a mixture of all races. A glimpse of what Heaven will be like. Pictured as a solution to racism. But then you define racism as evil without giving a definition of racism.

What about an all black church, or all white church, or all Mexican church? Is that a problem? Are you saying those are not a picture of Heaven?

Lees

A church that is entirely one race may be a problem or it may not be a problem. It's impossible to say without knowing why it's all one race.

Where I live is almost entirely white. Not surprisingly my church is almost entirely white. But one of the couples who attends has a daughter who married a black man and whose children are mixed race, and when they visit they are welcomed with open arms. We have another black man who sporadically attends and he is always made welcome.

If you were to visit a church in a majority black area I'd expect the membership to be mostly or entirely black. It's a simple representation of the local demographic.

A church that is entirely one race because it excludes other races (whether through overt discrimination or more passively being unwelcoming) is a different matter.

 

[atpollard]

Are you saying those are not a picture of Heaven?

Yes.
There is nothing in scripture to suggest that Heaven is segregated.

 

[atpollard]

But then you define racism as evil without giving a definition of racism.

RACISM: 1: a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
- Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Yes, I view the belief that one skin tone is inherently superior to all others is evil.
Feel free to explain a scenario in which it is “good”.

 

[atpollard]

What about an all black church, or all white church, or all Mexican church?

What about them?
Yes they exist.

Is that a problem?

Not innately.

 

[Lees]

A church that is entirely one race may be a problem or it may not be a problem. It's impossible to say without knowing why it's all one race.

Where I live is almost entirely white. Not surprisingly my church is almost entirely white. But one of the couples who attends has a daughter who married a black man and whose children are mixed race, and when they visit they are welcomed with open arms. We have another black man who sporadically attends and he is always made welcome.

If you were to visit a church in a majority black area I'd expect the membership to be mostly or entirely black. It's a simple representation of the local demographic.

A church that is entirely one race because it excludes other races (whether through overt discrimination or more passively being unwelcoming) is a different matter.

I never said anything about excluding anyone.

What if the church is all one race because they like to be with their own people? Blacks, whites and Mexicans?

Why is that a problem? Why is that not a picture of heaven?

Lees

 

[Lees]

Yes.
There is nothing in scripture to suggest that Heaven is segregated.

Did I say anything about being segragated? No.

Just because blacks, whites, and Mexicans want to be with their own people is not segragation. It's just the natural order taking place.

But, since you brought it up, consider this. Why did God choose the Jews? Why did He 'segragate' them from the rest of the people on earth? He called for their separation.

Seems God was for segragation. (Ex. 33:16) (Lev. 20:24)

Good thing He didn't live in America.

Lees

 

[Lees]

RACISM: 1: a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
- Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Yes, I view the belief that one skin tone is inherently superior to all others is evil.
Feel free to explain a scenario in which it is “good”.

Oh, you're going with Websters definition. The cultural/political definiton of America. Racism is evil.

Who said anything about 'superiority'? You did.

My definition is not yours. You can explain your own.

Lees

 

[Lees]

What about them?
Yes they exist.


Not innately.

What do you mean, 'what about them'? I asked two questions following that statement. You only answered one. So, if you answered them both, you wouldn't need to ask, 'what about them'? Please answer the other.

What do 'you' mean that is not 'innately a problem?

Lees

 

[Albion]

RACISM: 1: a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
- Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Yes, I view the belief that one skin tone is inherently superior to all others is evil.
Feel free to explain a scenario in which it is “good”.

?? So which is it to be--race determines human capabilities, and one set is superior to others...

OR

One skin tone is inherently superior to all other ones?

 

[atpollard]

Did I say anything about being segragated? No.

You appear to be looking to start a fight.

You asked me:

Are you saying those [an all black church, or all white church, or all Mexican church] are not a picture of Heaven?

To which I replied that YES, an an all black church, or all white church, or all Mexican church is NOT a picture of heaven because Heaven is not segregated. Is heaven ”all black” or “all white” or “all Mexican”? No, it is not.
So your defensive response challenging me with “Did I say anything about being segragated? No.” appears to serve no purpose except to generate strife.

I answered your question and have no interest in arguing imaginary strife, so this conversation is over for me.
Find someone else to fight with.
I quit.
You win.

 

[atpollard]

?? So which is it to be--race determines human capabilities, and one set is superior to others...

OR

One skin tone is inherently superior to all other ones?

(what could I have been thinking by conflating “race” with “skin tone”?)
I stand corrected. Width and length of nose is clearly the dominant “racial difference” that drives ”racism” in the modern world.

 

[tango]

I never said anything about excluding anyone.

Did I say you did?

What if the church is all one race because they like to be with their own people? Blacks, whites and Mexicans?

Why is that a problem? Why is that not a picture of heaven?

Lees

Is it a picture of heaven to have huddles of people who exclude those who aren't like them? Who knows... maybe heaven is racist after all. If people of different races are our brothers and sisters in Christ why wouldn't we want to be around them?

 

[Lees]

You appear to be looking to start a fight.

You asked me:


To which I replied that YES, an an all black church, or all white church, or all Mexican church is NOT a picture of heaven because Heaven is not segregated. Is heaven ”all black” or “all white” or “all Mexican”? No, it is not.
So your defensive response challenging me with “Did I say anything about being segragated? No.” appears to verve no purpose except to generate strife.

I answered your question and have no interest in arguing imaginary strife, so this conversation is over for me.
Find someone else to fight with.
I quit.
You win.

Oh, my purpose is to generate strife? Nice offer to the mods.

No, you bailed. You didn't answer half the questions I asked you. Why? Not because you don't want a fight. Because you didn't know how to answer.

But, that's fine.

Lees

 

[Albion]

(what could I have been thinking by conflating “race” with “skin tone”?)
I stand corrected. Width and length of nose is clearly the dominant “racial difference” that drives ”racism” in the modern world.

Well, that kind of talk is not inconsequential. In fact, it goes right to the problem with this word (racism).

The term doesn't mean anything in particular but is nevertheless a go-to accusation that the political Left uses on anyone and everyone that it chooses to smear for just about any reason.

This is a fact of life that should concern us, and there are indeed some people who at last are waking up to the danger of letting our opponents rearrange the language and then demand that everyone speak only when using their version of it.

Doing so amounts to verifying their propaganda, even when the attempt is made to rebut their claims and theories.

It works to their advantage precisely because by using the language that they demand be used, every response becomes a de facto agreement with their talking points, even if the attempt had been to reject them.

 

[Lees]

Did I say you did?


Is it a picture of heaven to have huddles of people who exclude those who aren't like them? Who knows... maybe heaven is racist after all. If people of different races are our brothers and sisters in Christ why wouldn't we want to be around them?

You brought it up not me. You brought it up in response to my reply. Why bring it up?

I gave my definition of racism. Have you given yours? I haven't seen one.

See, you bring it up again, when I never indicated any exclusion.

Since you want to respond to some of my replies to another, then respond to my post #(28). Which everyone seems to ignore. Consider (29) also.

Lees

 

[Lees]

@Albion

If you have something to say, say it. I'm willing to talk.

Lees

 

[Albion]

@Albion

If you have something to say, say it. I'm willing to talk.

Lees

Let's start with you reading the four or five messages I've already posted in this thread and which contain plenty that's deserving of your consideration.

 

[Faith]

What do you mean, 'what about them'? I asked two questions following that statement. You only answered one. So, if you answered them both, you wouldn't need to ask, 'what about them'? Please answer the other.

What do 'you' mean that is not 'innately a problem?

Lees

Why don’t you just spit out what it really is that you’re trying to say.